Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (Full Version)

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TomTurn -> Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 4:47:48 AM)

Do not know all the bill so cannot say I agree with his being against it but I agree with the definition.

A Colorado legislator known for kicking a photographer was ordered to leave the podium of the state House of Representatives on Monday because he called Mexican workers "illiterate peasants."

State Rep. Douglas Bruce, who has a history of provoking controversy, made the comment during debate on a bill that would allow the state to help immigrant workers get temporary federal visas. The measure is intended to ease a shortage of farm workers in the state.

"I would like to have the opportunity to state at the microphone why I don't think we need 5,000 more illiterate peasants in Colorado," Bruce said.

His outburst drew an audible gasp from the House.

"How dare you," said state Rep. Kathleen Curry, a Democrat who was serving as chairwoman during the debate. She told the Republican lawmaker he was no longer recognized to speak.......

........Bruce later defended his remarks.

"I looked up 'illiterate' in the dictionary and it means somebody who is lacking in formal education or is unable to read and write," he said. "I don't think these people who are planning to come over here and pick potatoes or peaches are likely to have much of a formal education. I looked up the word 'peasant.' The word 'peasant' means a person who works in agricultural fields.

"These people, most of them, don't speak English. Most of them haven't had any formal education, that's why they're coming over here. I don't blame them for trying, but I don't think we should pave the way for more aliens to come here," he said.

Article



Sartrian -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 4:56:24 AM)

Calling someone an illiterate peasant is obviously an insult, no matter what semantic wrangling he tried to attempt.
(I'm sure he wouldn't like the opposite-- for instance, if I called him a brain-dead redneck, that would be perfectly logical, though it'd be quite insulting!)

But hey! A little dehumanizing rhetoric never hurt anyone. Except...you know, the Jews.



mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 5:09:04 AM)

This country was built on the backs of many an illiterate peasant! I guess this lawmaker has forgotten US history. What's wrong with getting these people who will be gainfully employed the legal right to do so. Then they will be paying their fair share of taxes which seems to be the most common complaint against illegal immigrants.



stellaluna -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 9:44:41 AM)

Some of my ancestors were illiterate peasants. Meh.



jbow -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 10:09:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

This country was built on the backs of many an illiterate peasant! I guess this lawmaker has forgotten US history. What's wrong with getting these people who will be gainfully employed the legal right to do so. Then they will be paying their fair share of taxes which seems to be the most common complaint against illegal immigrants.



True, but our ancestors were legal "illeterate peasants". I think he is remembering our history and the fact that people once respected the law. That is the difference... these people are not immigrants, they are invaders. I guess the guy in CO was trying to make a statement. He could have used better words in this hyper-sensitive world but he is right that CO does not need 5,000 more "illeterate peasants" and if they do, they can allow them to immigrate legally, not invade illegally. It is offensive for foreigners to come into our country, uninvited and live here. Hopefully they will all be found and deported.

J



jbow -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 10:10:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

Some of my ancestors were illiterate peasants. Meh.


Some of my family members are illeterate peasants now... [;)]

J



stamper_ben -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 10:14:18 AM)

I thrive on being regarded as a brain-dead redneck.



mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 10:35:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

This country was built on the backs of many an illiterate peasant! I guess this lawmaker has forgotten US history. What's wrong with getting these people who will be gainfully employed the legal right to do so. Then they will be paying their fair share of taxes which seems to be the most common complaint against illegal immigrants.



True, but our ancestors were legal "illeterate peasants". I think he is remembering our history and the fact that people once respected the law. That is the difference... these people are not immigrants, they are invaders. I guess the guy in CO was trying to make a statement. He could have used better words in this hyper-sensitive world but he is right that CO does not need 5,000 more "illeterate peasants" and if they do, they can allow them to immigrate legally, not invade illegally. It is offensive for foreigners to come into our country, uninvited and live here. Hopefully they will all be found and deported.

J


Funny, this is what the Mexicans thought about the Texans! And what the native Americans thought about all Europeans! But immigration consisted just of getting off a boat back then. Even during the Ellis island years, you just had to make sure you weren't sick and you were let in. There wasn't, "fill out this form five different times and don't ask us for help how to do it because we will tell you how to do it wrong."

Also, American farming businesses are asking the government to increase the number of work visas but they are running into this latest anti-immigrant backlash. So maybe the quota system in place right now is unfeasible.



rcjames -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 10:57:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

Some of my ancestors were illiterate peasants. Meh.


Some of my family members are illeterate peasants now... [;)]

J


Some of my wife's family are illeterate peasants now [;)]

and I hope she does not read the forum today.

Thanks
RC



earthless -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 1:27:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

There wasn't, "fill out this form five different times and don't ask us for help how to do it because we will tell you how to do it wrong."



.... and having to wait an average of 9-18 years to even get the next step of the process.



stellaluna -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 1:59:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

Some of my ancestors were illiterate peasants. Meh.


Some of my family members are illeterate peasants now... [;)]

J


Some of my wife's family are illeterate peasants now [;)]

and I hope she does not read the forum today.

Thanks
RC

[:D] Good luck with that.



mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/23/2008 2:13:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

There wasn't, "fill out this form five different times and don't ask us for help how to do it because we will tell you how to do it wrong."



.... and having to wait an average of 9-18 years to even get the next step of the process.


Or you could hire a lawyer who practices immigration law (actually family law with immigration as a side practice) to impede (ie lead you through) the process when you get frustrated with the dunderheads at the INS which will make the process even longer.

Those people who think it's so easy to do it the legal way have never been through the current system.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/25/2008 7:59:21 AM)

I have never met an ignorant extraterrestial.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/25/2008 10:26:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Do not know all the bill so cannot say I agree with his being against it but I agree with the definition.

TomTurn, words that define people are not just about their technical definitions; they are about the vein in which those words are used. Even ordinary words hurt once they become human labels.

How about if I refered to Christians as "religious fanatics?" Anything wrong with that definition?



GroupW -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/25/2008 11:21:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TomTurn

Do not know all the bill so cannot say I agree with his being against it but I agree with the definition.

A Colorado legislator known for kicking a photographer was ordered to leave the podium of the state House of Representatives on Monday because he called Mexican workers "illiterate peasants."

State Rep. Douglas Bruce, who has a history of provoking controversy, made the comment during debate on a bill that would allow the state to help immigrant workers get temporary federal visas. The measure is intended to ease a shortage of farm workers in the state.

"I would like to have the opportunity to state at the microphone why I don't think we need 5,000 more illiterate peasants in Colorado," Bruce said.

His outburst drew an audible gasp from the House.

"How dare you," said state Rep. Kathleen Curry, a Democrat who was serving as chairwoman during the debate. She told the Republican lawmaker he was no longer recognized to speak.......

........Bruce later defended his remarks.

"I looked up 'illiterate' in the dictionary and it means somebody who is lacking in formal education or is unable to read and write," he said. "I don't think these people who are planning to come over here and pick potatoes or peaches are likely to have much of a formal education. I looked up the word 'peasant.' The word 'peasant' means a person who works in agricultural fields.

"These people, most of them, don't speak English. Most of them haven't had any formal education, that's why they're coming over here. I don't blame them for trying, but I don't think we should pave the way for more aliens to come here," he said.

Article


If I'm connecting the dots properly he also claims to be a Christian. I'm sure he is, but it's not a great demonstration of loving one's neighbor.



dbark -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/27/2008 3:39:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jbow

quote:

ORIGINAL: mapachito13

This country was built on the backs of many an illiterate peasant! I guess this lawmaker has forgotten US history. What's wrong with getting these people who will be gainfully employed the legal right to do so. Then they will be paying their fair share of taxes which seems to be the most common complaint against illegal immigrants.



True, but our ancestors were legal "illeterate peasants". I think he is remembering our history and the fact that people once respected the law. That is the difference... these people are not immigrants, they are invaders. I guess the guy in CO was trying to make a statement. He could have used better words in this hyper-sensitive world but he is right that CO does not need 5,000 more "illeterate peasants" and if they do, they can allow them to immigrate legally, not invade illegally. It is offensive for foreigners to come into our country, uninvited and live here. Hopefully they will all be found and deported.

J

I know a country has a legal right to bar would-be immigrants from entering the country, but can you explain to me where it gets it's moral right to decree that an honest, hard-working poor person in another country hoping and praying for the opportunity to provide for his family will not be permitted to come into that country and must stay where they are and suffer? America is a nation full of immigrants and their descendants who all came here in the hopes of a better life. You feel no pity or compassion for those who are desperately hoping for the same chance your family was given?



stellaluna -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/27/2008 9:42:39 AM)

I would agree with you if there were so many Americans who suffer everyday because they cannot get or afford basic needs. There is nothing wrong with wanting a better life. There is something wrong when an illegal can come here and get one and someone born here doesn't stand a chance.



TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/27/2008 11:44:20 PM)

quote:

but can you explain to me where it gets it's moral right to decree that an honest, hard-working poor person in another country hoping and praying for the opportunity to provide for his family will not be permitted to come into that country and must stay where they are and suffer?


Well easily 2,000,000,000 (actually way more) "hard working poor people in other countries" would like to come to the U.S. How many do you say we allow?



dbark -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/28/2008 2:52:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TomTurn

quote:

but can you explain to me where it gets it's moral right to decree that an honest, hard-working poor person in another country hoping and praying for the opportunity to provide for his family will not be permitted to come into that country and must stay where they are and suffer?


Well easily 2,000,000,000 (actually way more) "hard working poor people in other countries" would like to come to the U.S. How many do you say we allow?

I'm just asking where you get your moral right to say no to any of them. What makes some people eligible and others not? (I'm talking about honest people, not criminals). What made your family acceptable to immigrate to America and other families not acceptable?



mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/28/2008 7:54:31 AM)

Hypothetical to get you thinking.

What if Native Americans made all the "illegal immigrant" Europeans to leave the country and "go back where they came from". And then, they can reapply to come back, paying the outrageous fees and dealing with moronic and and confusing immigration system. They can be treated like criminals while they legally apply for access to this country and while they wait for years as their families barely scratch out a living.

Maybe then will they understand the desperation that drives these people to risk death just to come to this country.

BTW, it's amazing how these "law and order" people who keep saying how these people are criminals akin to murderers and rapists are so willing to ignore the law when it conflicts with God's law or His Word. How about His Words on how we are to treat foreigners.

"The stranger who lives as a foreigner with you shall be to you as the native-born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you lived as foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh your God." Lev. 19:34

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him." Rom. 10:12

What's is the other complaint it involves "mammon" - money! Is that what stands between Christians lending a hand to their fellow humans?



TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/28/2008 7:58:43 AM)

quote:

I'm just asking where you get your moral right to say no to any of them.


To protect the lifeboat

quote:

What makes some people eligible and others not? (I'm talking about honest people, not criminals).


Is based on what the lifeboat needs. The lifeboat cannot support millions and millions coming in legally and illegally who have little education and skills. If you want the life boat to stay afloat you have to draw a line on how many can get in it and the needs of the lifeboat

quote:

What made your family acceptable to immigrate to America and other families not acceptable?


My ancestors came in the great wave (when many were sent back) and the big differences in then and now, they were not coming in and then grabbing a tax payer demanding the tax payer take care of them. The great wave was when the U.S had a much lower population in proportion to the amount of immigrants coming in. That is a quick two.

Immigration By the Numbers



TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/28/2008 9:30:10 AM)

quote:

Hypothetical to get you thinking.


Well they will not get me to thinking since to me little thought is behind them

quote:

What if Native Americans made all the "illegal immigrant" Europeans to leave the country and "go back where they came from".


Are you talking about way back? What law was broken to make them "illegal"? Are you talking about today? If you are saying how that the people who were coming way back were "illegal" and bad for "Native Aericans" (which is a theory), would that not support the argument for heavily controlled immigration today?

quote:

dealing with moronic and and confusing immigration system.


Now here I agree with you about our immigration system

quote:

while they wait for years as their families barely scratch out a living.


Have no problem with making people wait years, it should be tough to come here today. If it takes 10, so be it. Regardless of the wait time a flow will continue since each year people are allowed in who have waited. And the wait should be weighed out on what is needed.

quote:

Maybe then will they understand the desperation that drives these people to risk death just to come to this country.


Understand why people want to get into the lifeboat of America but the lifeboat can only hold so many. Why not help the people where they are and all make it rather than sink the lifeboat?

quote:

BTW, it's amazing how these "law and order" people who keep saying how these people are criminals akin to murderers and rapists


Many who come in illegally are murderers and rapists, of course not all. But if I were sitting with you on our border and we were watching 1,000 people come across, could you point to the ones who were coming to commit viloent crimes and the ones who are not? So logic would say you need a way to control that so you would be more apt to find out.

quote:

are so willing to ignore the law when it conflicts with God's law or His Word. How about His Words on how we are to treat foreigners.


"The stranger who lives as a foreigner with you shall be to you as the native-born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you lived as foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh your God." Lev. 19:34

Way out of context. Since you brought it up, will let you explain to people how our border today and laws and those coming in illegally fit into it.

Asked you before when you said illegal immigration is good for the U.S.. If it is so good to have 20,000,000 here illegally, why not let 1,000,000,000 in illegally (who like the majority of the ones here already are low skilled and educated)? Using that logic it would make us an economic powerhouse would it not?

quote:

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him." Rom. 10:12


Same as above

quote:

What's is the other complaint it involves "mammon" - money! Is that what stands between Christians lending a hand to their fellow humans?


When you have given every penny you have you can ask others to chip in. Would that not be a "fair" way to do it? Why not sell the computer your are using now?

Here is a departing question. If immigration alone is good for the nation. Let's allow 2,000,000 a year in but only those who are muslim from "muslim nations". Would that be a good thing for the U.S.?



TomTurn -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/28/2008 9:36:03 AM)

Back to the OP. I can see what he is saying. What says we need these folks? How will they be tracked once here to assure they do not become a urden and go home when done?



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/28/2008 10:23:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TomTurn
Back to the OP. I can see what he is saying.

So can I. Back to post #14:
quote:

TomTurn, words that define people are not just about their technical definitions; they are about the vein in which those words are used. Even ordinary words hurt once they become human labels.



mapachito13 -> RE: Colorado Lawmaker Calls Alien Workers "Illiterate Peasants" (4/28/2008 10:44:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TomTurn

quote:

Hypothetical to get you thinking.


Well they will not get me to thinking since to me little thought is behind them

quote:

What if Native Americans made all the "illegal immigrant" Europeans to leave the country and "go back where they came from".


Are you talking about way back? What law was broken to make them "illegal"? Are you talking about today? If you are saying how that the people who were coming way back were "illegal" and bad for "Native Aericans" (which is a theory), would that not support the argument for heavily controlled immigration today?

quote:

dealing with moronic and and confusing immigration system.


Now here I agree with you about our immigration system

quote:

while they wait for years as their families barely scratch out a living.


Have no problem with making people wait years, it should be tough to come here today. If it takes 10, so be it. Regardless of the wait time a flow will continue since each year people are allowed in who have waited. And the wait should be weighed out on what is needed.

quote:

Maybe then will they understand the desperation that drives these people to risk death just to come to this country.


Understand why people want to get into the lifeboat of America but the lifeboat can only hold so many. Why not help the people where they are and all make it rather than sink the lifeboat?

quote:

BTW, it's amazing how these "law and order" people who keep saying how these people are criminals akin to murderers and rapists


Many who come in illegally are murderers and rapists, of course not all. But if I were sitting with you on our border and we were watching 1,000 people come across, could you point to the ones who were coming to commit viloent crimes and the ones who are not? So logic would say you need a way to control that so you would be more apt to find out.

quote:

are so willing to ignore the law when it conflicts with God's law or His Word. How about His Words on how we are to treat foreigners.


"The stranger who lives as a foreigner with you shall be to you as the native-born among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you lived as foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh your God." Lev. 19:34

Way out of context. Since you brought it up, will let you explain to people how our border today and laws and those coming in illegally fit into it.

Asked you before when you said illegal immigration is good for the U.S.. If it is so good to have 20,000,000 here illegally, why not let 1,000,000,000 in illegally (who like the majority of the ones here already are low skilled and educated)? Using that logic it would make us an economic powerhouse would it not?

quote:

"For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him." Rom. 10:12


Same as above

quote:

What's is the other complaint it involves "mammon" - money! Is that what stands between Christians lending a hand to their fellow humans?


When you have given every penny you have you can ask others to chip in. Would that not be a "fair" way to do it? Why not sell the computer your are using now?

Here is a departing question. If immigration alone is good for the nation. Let's allow 2,000,000 a year in but only those who are muslim from "muslim nations". Would that be a good thing for the U.S.?


So, by your logic, we need to keep everyone out because our "lifeboat is sinking"? Or just hispanics and muslims?

Also, How did I take Lev. 19:34 out of context, it seems pretty straightforward to me! Or because the words Hispanic and American didn't appear it's not applicable? So the Bible has no meaning for today? And those Biblical principles of justice AND mercy have no meaning because "we are Americans"?



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