RE: Materialism to what limit? (Full Version)

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rcjames -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 2:16:08 PM)

What is the limit on materialism?

When what you buy or the monies you have become the 'Love" of money and not just enjoying what you have.

If a peron is well upset over what someone else has then that love of money is showing up on the coveter, not the covetee.


Thsnks
RC



Qtman -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 2:39:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

What is the limit on materialism?

When what you buy or the monies you have become the 'Love" of money and not just enjoying what you have.

If a peron is well upset over what someone else has then that love of money is showing up on the coveter, not the covetee.


Thsnks
RC


Well said brother.



elastic -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 2:59:11 PM)

quote:

I normally would have seen the humour in such an act but it bothered me because here is a person who has consciously chosen NOT to have children though married and has been a leader in church. It bothers me because it is not God's design to have a bag as a baby and it bothers me because I feel it sends a negative message to other young couples or young people in the group that it is OK to be childless and make light of family life.


well, this is actually a whole 'nother topic altogether, but there are people who choose to be childless for all sorts of reasons, none of which are your business. and furthermore, if it is between the couple and God and they are following God's plan for their lives, then it is ok to be childless. it doesn't mean they are making light of family life. there are people who refer to their pets as their babies....they are not making light of family life either, but a cat or dog does not equal a child, even though you might really, really, really love them.

your post makes it sound as if you are bitter because you are a SAHM and you don't have the extra money to spend on things that you want..which IMHO is worse than buying a $20,000 purse. jealousy and resentment could be setting up in you and it seems that this is the case.

you can either choose to be happy with what you have and stop judging others who have visibly more than you have, or you can go out and get a job...or you can stop reading the blogs of these women...or you can write your own blog on why you think what they are doing is wrong...you have choices, but the only person you can change is you.



Ps103 -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 3:14:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: louischaise

Haha. That $150,000 bag is funny!

Here is the expensive bag I was referring to. The brand is Hermes. Read more here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkin_Bag


But...but...they are ugly.



doinkdom -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 3:16:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ps103
quote:

ORIGINAL: louischaise
Haha. That $150,000 bag is funny!

Here is the expensive bag I was referring to. The brand is Hermes. Read more here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birkin_Bag

But...but...they are ugly.


some might even say hideously ugly

money does not account for good taste for sure



THEREDCAPE -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 3:17:34 PM)

There is nothing wrong with childess couples being that way, or staying that way, in church or out.

If you make a large salary, and want expensive stuff, that is your business.

Materialism is created by loving things or money more than God.

Jealousy of what others have is a close cousin.

My pastor paid well over a thousand for ONE golf club...and within a couple of months asked for a raise...they were having trouble surviving.[8|] THAT is a form of materialism.



Qtman -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 3:24:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THEREDCAPE

There is nothing wrong with childess couples being that way, or staying that way, in church or out.

If you make a large salary, and want expensive stuff, that is your business.

Materialism is created by loving things or money more than God.

Jealousy of what others have is a close cousin.

My pastor paid well over a thousand for ONE golf club...and within a couple of months asked for a raise...they were having trouble surviving.[8|] THAT is a form of materialism.


And that is what it is all about. The pastor was wrong to do that.



Consecrated2God -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 3:34:06 PM)

I might be in the minority, but I think being that enamored with a handbag is over the top. It's just a thing, for heaven's sakes. The Bible says that where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Of all the things to put your treasure in, an ugly purse seems ridiculous to me.



OLEEguacamole -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 3:34:27 PM)

the issue is not the price tag or the quantity of things but behavior of those that have. and the behavior diplayed about their posessions.

a person can come to church in a million dollars worht of clothes car, etc and act like they don't know they have the best stuff in the house and be as gracious to every poorly dressed, well dressed person in the house. or a person can congregate with the haves, and draw attention to their stuff etc.

in the OP example, there could well be poor behavior that is being centered around the posessions, or treatment of others. when THAT kind of thing is on display it is not hard to discern a problem.

it really is possible to see and discern a problem.

even when properly reading poor behavior, our own hearts and minds must be closely guarded. we can easily fall into improper judgement, envy , divisive behavior etc.

i think it's a challenging situation to be in the middle of.



elastic -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 3:45:48 PM)

quote:

I might be in the minority, but I think being that enamored with a handbag is over the top. It's just a thing, for heaven's sakes. The Bible says that where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Of all the things to put your treasure in, an ugly purse seems ridiculous to me.


change the word handbag to something else such as 'house', 'car', 'garden', 'shoes'.

i know there are people on this forum that are enamoured with and think really highly of the gardens they grow and the way that have decorated their homes. home decorations are not necessary, but something people do anyway. flower gardens are not necessary, but are something people cultivate anyway. i'm not into gardens and decorating, and i don't see why people waste money on these things that don't matter in eternity....but just because i don't understand it doesn't mean it is wrong or sinful. enjoy your garden, enjoy your decorating, enjoy your car, as long as you are living in God's will for your life, then i see no problem with it.



tracydolls -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 4:48:09 PM)

No one person should have 8 bags that cost $20,000 each.

We in America spend tooo much money on junk. For that money whole villages could've got a well and had clean water. There are Bible verses about the love of money. One of the most important ones pertaining to the rich is

Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God

Your reward can be 60 or 70 years of living rich on earth, having all the latest junk or forever in Heaven. It's people's choice.

Anyone reading the Bible knows that God is not happy with that. 100's of verses mentioning the poor, downtrodden, needy, afflicted, etc. And what we as Chrsitians should be doing.

It's impossible to miss them. But then most people only hear the weekly verse in Church.

It's sad when a piece of leather is more important than real babies.

If your Church is very materalistic, I would say move around.



Qtman -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 4:52:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

No one person should have 8 bags that cost $20,000 each.

We in America spend tooo much money on junk. For that money whole villages could've got a well and had clean water. There are Bible verses about the love of money. One of the most important ones pertaining to the rich is

Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God

Your reward can be 60 or 70 years of living rich on earth, having all the latest junk or forever in Heaven. It's people's choice.

Anyone reading the Bible knows that God is not happy with that. 100's of verses mentioning the poor, downtrodden, needy, afflicted, etc. And what we as Chrsitians should be doing.

It's impossible to miss them. But then most people only hear the weekly verse in Church.

It's sad when a piece of leather is more important than real babies.

If your Church is very materalistic, I would say move around.


I do not mean to be starting an argument but if you are going to quote scripture you need to know the meaning behind the scripture. Why will it be harder for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Is it because he is rich? No. It is because of his love of his riches. Money is not the root of all evil it is the love of money that gets people.



Consecrated2God -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 5:08:24 PM)

quote:

change the word handbag to something else such as 'house', 'car', 'garden', 'shoes'.


Exactly. I feel the same way about it. As others have said, it's not the dollar item so much or the item itself, but how attached this person is to the handbag that would bother me. The attitude behind sending out mass e-mails, calling it a member of the family, etc., is very materialistic. It's a thing. I would feel the same way if someone acted like that about any other thing. I personally would find it difficult to be close to a person who was that shallow.



tracydolls -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/25/2008 7:43:24 PM)

quote:

I do not mean to be starting an argument but if you are going to quote scripture you need to know the meaning behind the scripture. Why will it be harder for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Is it because he is rich? No. It is because of his love of his riches. Money is not the root of all evil it is the love of money that gets people.


Sounds pretty upfront to me. I don't think I'm misinterepting. What's confusing about it.

Mar 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Here's some more verses for the rich.

Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.


Luk 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich He hath sent empty away.


Loving money can be a poor or rich person. That verse can be misinterepted.

But I think it is clear about rich people.



louischaise -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 1:24:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THEREDCAPE

quote:

There is nothing wrong with childess couples being that way, or staying that way, in church or out.


I am not sure the is NOTHING WRONG if a couple CHOOSES to be childless. Look at what the word of God says:

Has not the Lord, made them one? In flesh and spirit they are his. AND WHY ONE? (capital letters my own) Because He was seekikng Godly offspring.
- Malachi 2:15

That is pretty plain and simple to understand in God's word. For couples who cannot have children, they are not the ones I am referring to.

quote:

If you make a large salary, and want expensive stuff, that is your business.

Materialism is created by loving things or money more than God.

Jealousy of what others have is a close cousin.


I didn't want to sound like I was bragging so I never mentioned it. I may be a stay home mom, but it doesn't mean I do not have money. I have been blessed with returns on my investment and I run a small biz on the side. I did mention, I COULD buy these brand name purses if I wanted to, but I don't. Simply because I find them unnecessary. I still enjoy material things (come on, I'm not an extremist or a communist here!) but I won't refer to them as my babies because God clearly states what His definition of children is. I don't think you can bring up a bag or a car or a diamond ring to be godly.



Qtman -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 8:06:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

quote:

I do not mean to be starting an argument but if you are going to quote scripture you need to know the meaning behind the scripture. Why will it be harder for a rich man to enter heaven than a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Is it because he is rich? No. It is because of his love of his riches. Money is not the root of all evil it is the love of money that gets people.


Sounds pretty upfront to me. I don't think I'm misinterepting. What's confusing about it.

Mar 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Here's some more verses for the rich.

Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.


Luk 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich He hath sent empty away.


Loving money can be a poor or rich person. That verse can be misinterepted.

But I think it is clear about rich people.


You are right it is quite clear. But it does not say nor mean what you seem to be trying t make it say. You simply cannot take a verse out of the middle of a conversation and use it to prove a point. If you read the entire conversation you will see what they are talking about.

In your Mark 10:25 reference you have to look at what verse 21 and 22 say also.


21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

The man was so in love with his wealth he would not part with it even for eternal life.

Your Reference to Luke 1:53 is what is known as Mary's song. She was simply singing praises to God for all he had done.

I could go on but I will stop here. I have known several that would be considered wealthy and/or rich. They were good godly Christian people. Having wealth does not condem someone. I hope I can get away with saying this and I do not mean to offend you in any way but I have posted with you in another thread and I get the feeling you are harboring some bitterness against several groups of people. Police Officers are one and now wealthy people seem to be another. Let me say that I grew up dirt poor and am still not wealthy and probably never will be. But I do not condem those that are simply because of the wealth.



Consecrated2God -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 8:15:42 AM)

Does everyone agree that materialism is wrong? Not just in it's extreme form, but it's wrong. 1 John 2:16 says: For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions--is not from the Father but is from the world.

The example in the OP is an extreme form of materialism. The question she had is, where do we draw the line? In my opinion, she didn't pose the question to ask if her particular friend was wrong, but to give an example and bring out a broader discussion of what it is to be materialistic.

We can't really draw a line in the sand and say, "Buying a $20,000 purse is wrong, but buying (fill in the blank) is not wrong. There aren't any specific guidelines in the Bible as to what constitutes materialism. If we look at an example of extreme materialism, we can easily justify materialism in our own lives. We need to each examine our lives and see if we are letting things interfere with our walk with God.



upNORTder -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 11:26:56 AM)

1 Timothy 6:6-9 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)




6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.

8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.



tracydolls -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 12:55:10 PM)

quote:

You are right it is quite clear. But it does not say nor mean what you seem to be trying t make it say. You simply cannot take a verse out of the middle of a conversation and use it to prove a point. If you read the entire conversation you will see what they are talking about.

In your Mark 10:25 reference you have to look at what verse 21 and 22 say also.


21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

The man was so in love with his wealth he would not part with it even for eternal life.




Ok right here YOU say he was so in love,the verse says because he had great wealth. YOU add to it. How many wealthy people hear that verse and are glad about that? How many actually do it. Or even give 50% to the poor? Or maybe 25%? How about 10% of the income. An example: Bill Gates giving 10 million to the poor is not 10% of 59 Billion.

quote:

Your Reference to Luke 1:53 is what is known as Mary's song. She was simply singing praises to God for all he had done.


You kidding, right! Because some of the Word is in song, it don't count? What Mary sings don't count or is she making up tales, I really don't get that. The rich have their reward, that's not right because it is in a song in Luke?

quote:

I could go on but I will stop here.


OK



quote:

I have known several that would be considered wealthy and/or rich. They were good godly Christian people.


They are good godly Christians because YOU say it, You know their heart?

Ok, if you say so.



quote:

Having wealth does not condem someone.


Why doesnt it?



quote:

I hope I can get away with saying this and I do not mean to offend you in any way but I have posted with you in another thread and I get the feeling you are harboring some bitterness against several groups of people.


your welcome to post anything, I don't get offended that easy! LOL!

I simply posted the truth there and now here. There are some BAD, terrible Cops. there are some good ones, they never get the glory, the bad ones are the ones we hear about. Never been to jail as I told you before, just don't like how (bad cops) treat some people.


quote:

Police Officers are one and now wealthy people seem to be another.


As a Christian I get angry, when I see little babies dying every day, and someone paying $20,000 for a purse. your right, I HATE to see people dying from diseases that don't kill us anymore, we just too greedy to give them the meds.

I really get mad when I see people that are suppose to be reading the Bible, claim Christ but defend the rich, when the Bible says 100's of times DEFEND THE POOR. HELP THE POOR.

quote:



Let me say that I grew up dirt poor and am still not wealthy and probably never will be. But I do not condem those that are simply because of the wealth
.

The Bible says what to do with poor and rich, It should not be this confusing. I grew up dirt poor, if someone gave me a trilion dollars, I would still be poor, I would do like Jesus IN THE VERSE YOU BROUGHT UP.

Give to the poor! As fast as I could get it out my hands!



tracydolls -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 12:58:38 PM)

You can only sleep in one bed, drive one car, cannot carry 2 purses, live in one house.


Anything beyond that is just greed.



car2ner -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 2:32:08 PM)

I tend to be on the stingy side when it comes to things for myself. I would rather wear a piece of jewelry full of glass stones than diamonds. I cannot understand why someone would want to spend vast sums of money on a purse. Then again, I don't understand why people buy alot of the things that they do.

I do have some nice things and some extra things. I try not to judge how others spend their resources but pray that m'love and I are good stewards of ours.

BTW, it doesn't say that we aren't to judge... we make judgements all the time. BUT we will be held to the same standards we lay on others. So if you fuss at someone for over spending on an item, biblically you had better not over spend on your favorite item.

(yeah, everyone should be as cheap as me....grin)



Qtman -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 3:43:58 PM)

Blue.



lightshineon -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 5:50:04 PM)

All mine are wal-mart, avon, except one my wealthy aunt bought me it is a KATHY something? right nice, but, I will probaly never have another.



tracydolls -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/26/2008 9:23:07 PM)

I am guilty of judging people, places and things. That's true.

Have I ever overspent on something? Yes, Of course!

Do I think I'm better than any other Christian, No.

But the Bible is very CLEAR about the rich and poor. Even before I got saved, I just did'nt think it was fair that one person should have 10 mansions and whole families are out in the elements.

The scales are not balanced fairly. The crazy part to me is that this is Christians trying to justify it with verses from the Bible.

Just say it's some junk I wanted. Real simple.


I know hoarding, fearing you'll be hungry again, loving money.

I am just not gonna say it is right no more. I used to be addicted to buying dolls, bought myself a whole collection. I tried to recouncil it when I got saved, did'nt work.

Do I got junk I don't NEED? YES. Seems like I been cleaning out junk for years now. Ever since I got saved. It's a work in progress.

Do I still shop, YES. But after reading the Bible I know better than to go in some store and buy 8 purses, no matter the price.



saraimay75 -> RE: Materialism to what limit? (4/27/2008 2:37:50 AM)

So if a rich person has eight handbags that cost $20,000 each but they also do volunteer work and Tithe is it still greed???



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