Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag

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cow451 -> Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:08:14 AM)
Senior at Tyner Academy (a public school) in Chattanooga TN suspended because she refused to participate in Pledge to the Flag. She cited her belief, as a Christian as reason. "She believes she should not pledge allegiance to anyone but God." LINK Her suspension was lifted when her attorney pointed out that Tennessee law protects those students choosing not to participate. Is it right for a Christian to do something unpatriotic?

mapachito13 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:12:49 AM)
I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..."

cow451 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:14:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." The words "under God" weren't in the Pledge until 1956.

mapachito13 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:17:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." The words "under God" weren't in the Pledge until 1956. But they are there now (even if it might be temporarily). I bet fewer people objected to saying the Pledge before 1956 too!

freakofnature -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:28:01 AM)
She sounds more like a trouble maker than concerned Christian. I'd be willing to bet she is trying to stir up controversy for her 15 minutes before she leaves her Senior year... She is in the 12 grade, why now??? Did she just get saved recently? There has to be more to the story than this.

Jhud -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:44:18 AM)
quote: Is it right for a Christian to do something unpatriotic? I think if the parents have communicated with the school their unwillingness to have their child say the pledge, the school should respect that.

1love1God1way -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:48:46 AM)
regardless of whether a christian should or not, as an american citizen, it is her right to stand, sit, participate, or not participate, in the pledge. i had a jehova witness in my class. they do not say the pledge either, and she was allowed to sit every morning.

JimboFletch -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:54:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freakofnature She sounds more like a trouble maker than concerned Christian. I'd be willing to bet she is trying to stir up controversy for her 15 minutes before she leaves her Senior year... She is in the 12 grade, why now??? Did she just get saved recently? There has to be more to the story than this. She's probably a Jehovah's Witness. Like Mormons, they are still under the delusion that they are somehow Christian.

JimboFletch -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 11:57:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." The words "under God" weren't in the Pledge until 1956. Well, apparently the student in question isn't old enough to remember before 1956. I barely do, but by the time I was in school, "Under God" was already established as part of the pledge. Even then, JWs didn't participate. We just thought they were weird but not worthy of suspension.

GroupW -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 12:00:30 PM)
Freedom of speech should also include the freedom NOT to speak. I don't have a problem with it.

cow451 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 12:02:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jhud quote: Is it right for a Christian to do something unpatriotic? I think if the parents have communicated with the school their unwillingness to have their child say the pledge, the school should respect that. Don't have the link, but another story gave more backgroound. She had been doing the same thing for months and no problem. She also played several sports and had never been a problem. I'll try to get the link.

GroupW -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 12:06:53 PM)
I do get a kick out of the blurbs auf Deutsch in your sig lines. It's a hoot. BT

pandora -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 12:16:31 PM)
I don't think objecting to the pledge is unpatriotic. I think most students recite it as emotionless drones because they are expected to do so. You are not likely to see an adult reciting the pledge to themselves before starting their day does that mean they are less patriotic then their school age children? ETA: The school was in the wrong but it seems they have now corrected the error.

JimboFletch -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 12:16:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon Well if told to stand, she should have stood. If she's a JW, to her it's the same as if you were told to bow to the President - a form of worship. I'm not agreeing, just explaining.

GroupW -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 12:16:49 PM)
Agreed it would have been a reasonable compromise. Again, you end up back wondering what the rest of the story was and how it escalated to that level.

lightshineon -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 12:20:56 PM)
I understand Jim, just thinking more to the story, if she was allowed not to do it, then one day out of the blue the teacher got a wild hair, and made her do it? If told to stand is different from doing the pledge, reciting it, or putting your hand over your heart. If she would not stand, just stand, when she is told to that is, well being defient. If she did not want to say the pledge thats fine, but stand when told to stand, is acceptable in my view. Btw is this a private school? The name suggested it. quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW Agreed it would have been a reasonable compromise. Again, you end up back wondering what the rest of the story was and how it escalated to that level.

cow451 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 1:04:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lightshineon I understand Jim, just thinking more to the story, if she was allowed not to do it, then one day out of the blue the teacher got a wild hair, and made her do it? If told to stand is different from doing the pledge, reciting it, or putting your hand over your heart. If she would not stand, just stand, when she is told to that is, well being defient. If she did not want to say the pledge thats fine, but stand when told to stand, is acceptable in my view. Btw is this a private school? The name suggested it. quote: ORIGINAL: GroupW Agreed it would have been a reasonable compromise. Again, you end up back wondering what the rest of the story was and how it escalated to that level. Here's a story with more info. Apparently the Vice Principal became angry and, not knowing the law, suspended the student. The article quotes the state law and it seems crystal clear that not participating is OK and the student can be either standing or sitting. The initial reactions of the school administrators to the attorney are interesting. They were apparently not prepared for the student to exercise her rights. The legal aspect is a slam dunk in the student's favor. LINK

davemiller7 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 2:04:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." The words "under God" weren't in the Pledge until 1956. But they are there now (even if it might be temporarily). I bet fewer people objected to saying the Pledge before 1956 too! Before 1956 (and for some time after), we said the pledge because we were proud of our country and our God. It wasn't until the middle 60s when that began to change. Back then, if something offended you, you shook it off and got on with your life. Today, you bring a lawsuit against who, or what, offends you. What wonderful progress we've made! [:'(]

cow451 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 2:56:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: davemiller7 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." The words "under God" weren't in the Pledge until 1956. But they are there now (even if it might be temporarily). I bet fewer people objected to saying the Pledge before 1956 too! Before 1956 (and for some time after), we said the pledge because we were proud of our country and our God. It wasn't until the middle 60s when that began to change. Back then, if something offended you, you shook it off and got on with your life. Today, you bring a lawsuit against who, or what, offends you. What wonderful progress we've made! [:'(] Don't expect a suit here since cooler heads prevailed in that school system and the grievance was addressed immediately.

stampinlady -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 3:44:52 PM)
If she truely believes in her heart that it is wrong then good for her.

dbark -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 4:30:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 Senior at Tyner Academy (a public school) in Chattanooga TN suspended because she refused to participate in Pledge to the Flag. She cited her belief, as a Christian as reason. "She believes she should not pledge allegiance to anyone but God." LINK Her suspension was lifted when her attorney pointed out that Tennessee law protects those students choosing not to participate. Is it right for a Christian to do something unpatriotic? I happen to agree with her that our allegiance should be pledged to God, not to the flag or to the Republic for which it stands. American Christians seem to cling to the pledge of allegiance as though it is some sort of symbol of our religious freedom simply because (I assume) it includes the phrase "one nation under God." This sort of thinking leads to the thinking "my country, right or wrong", an attitude which, for me personally, is appalling. I would not stand up to defend my country if it were behaving immorally and since I have little to no control over how my country behaves, I think it is wise to refrain from promising blind allegiance to it.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 4:34:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." Yes, but not at the expense of God... If the government demands something of you that would cause you to break God's law that's makes it an issue... Further... The term God in the pledge given the government�s universal belief on a god is hardly representative of the one true God� John

kernsfamily -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 4:48:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: davemiller7 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." The words "under God" weren't in the Pledge until 1956. But they are there now (even if it might be temporarily). I bet fewer people objected to saying the Pledge before 1956 too! Before 1956 (and for some time after), we said the pledge because we were proud of our country and our God. It wasn't until the middle 60s when that began to change. Back then, if something offended you, you shook it off and got on with your life. Today, you bring a lawsuit against who, or what, offends you. What wonderful progress we've made! [:'(] Ummm....perhaps....if anything offended you, and it was the "majority" thing to do, you just went along with it, as to not be "singled" out for any kind of harrassment... Not only that, but, back in 1956 and before, in most places in our country, it was completely unacceptable to ANYONE, even "Christians", to have students "of color" share the same classroom as our kids. TODAY...I have NO IDEA how I would explain to my children that we are Christians....we believe in the Bible, 10 commandments and everything else that goes along with being "Christian", BUT, tell them that it would be totally "wrong" for the kids across the street to go to their school???? THAT'S hypocritcal!.... SO, yes....what wonderful progress we have made, as my kids are great friends with classmates of all backgrounds, ethnicities, etc..etc..., and they no one even gives it a second thought. Though, back in '56, such a school would have been impossible to have in most areas of the country. AND, why is that? Cause we were "so Christian" back then??? hardly.... SO, back to the 'issue' at hand, here's my "prediction": The "Christian-Right" media (Dobson, World-Net Daily, etc..etc..), will go overboard reporting that this student got suspended for "their Christian beliefs"....BUT, not tell "the rest of the story", that the school quickly realized the mistake they made......as what typically happens in cases like this.

mapachito13 -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 6:45:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: mapachito13 I guess she forgot that the pledge still contains the words "under God" so what's the problem! Even Jesus said to "give to Ceasar ..." Yes, but not at the expense of God... If the government demands something of you that would cause you to break God's law that's makes it an issue... Further... The term God in the pledge given the government�s universal belief on a god is hardly representative of the one true God� John Sorry I didn't know I had to complete the quote to dispel any confusion over the meaning "AND GIVE TO GOD WHAT IS GOD'S"! Is that better now? Why couldn't a Christian when saying the words "under God" know that for him/her would mean under the Lordship of Jesus Christ?

iluvatar -> RE: Christian Student Suspended for Sitting During Pledge to Flag (4/24/2008 7:40:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dbark quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 Senior at Tyner Academy (a public school) in Chattanooga TN suspended because she refused to participate in Pledge to the Flag. She cited her belief, as a Christian as reason. "She believes she should not pledge allegiance to anyone but God." LINK Her suspension was lifted when her attorney pointed out that Tennessee law protects those students choosing not to participate. Is it right for a Christian to do something unpatriotic? I happen to agree with her that our allegiance should be pledged to God, not to the flag or to the Republic for which it stands. American Christians seem to cling to the pledge of allegiance as though it is some sort of symbol of our religious freedom simply because (I assume) it includes the phrase "one nation under God." This sort of thinking leads to the thinking "my country, right or wrong", an attitude which, for me personally, is appalling. I would not stand up to defend my country if it were behaving immorally and since I have little to no control over how my country behaves, I think it is wise to refrain from promising blind allegiance to it. I agree. IMO, she's one of the few Christians I've seen who has her priorities straight on this matter. -Dan.

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