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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 4:03:30 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 626
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
Moral corruption is not a grounds for execution in the U.S. but I guess that didn't matter in this case.
Apparently, moral corruption while black justifies the execution post facto.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 4:06:00 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 626
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
I want to know is why is race entering the equation here?
I hate it when people try to bring race into the discussion.
The fact the man was black is not the main issue and is not the reason why he was shot at.
But it is the reason that folks find it justifiable.
I still contend that the reaction to the verdict would have been very different if the victim had been white, especially considering that two of the cops were black.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 4:14:32 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 2545
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
According to the judge the credibility of Bell's friends was said to be questionable...
Well, of course. In court, a cop's word is always esteemed in higher credibility over the "bad guy's" word unless it can be absolutely proved otherwise.
The lack of credibility of Bell's friends is their personal issue and has zero to do with the cops... As well who you run with matters...
quote:
quote:
Rocket Propelled Grenade...
Ah, good one rcjames-- collateral damage along with execution by firing squad. Get twenty of "them" for the price of one. What a bargain.
Actually a RPG would be a good weapon of choice to take out a vehicle if that is the weapon of the other person...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 4/27/2008 4:22:11 PM >
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 4:26:22 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1843
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: rnershigh
I want to know is why is race entering the equation here?
I hate it when people try to bring race into the discussion.
The fact the man was black is not the main issue and is not the reason why he was shot at.
But it is the reason that folks find it justifiable.
I still contend that the reaction to the verdict would have been very different if the victim had been white, especially considering that two of the cops were black.
I honestly doubt that. If someone was stupid enough to attempt to mow down an armed police officer everyone I know would think that the idiot wasn't playing with a full deck. Actions have consequences.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 4:43:47 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7637
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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I'm curious what some of you think would be the "proper" reaction of officers who's lives were threatened as well as the public by someone they don't know trying to mow them down.
"Pardon me. Before you kill us. Do you understand that we are police officers?"
I'm sorry, but some of you folks need a reality check. You excuse Bell because according to what a few folks are saying he was scared for his life and somehow you think that means he has a right to mow down police officers, but the officers whose lives ARE physically threatened are supposed to stand around and pray they don't get mowed down and no innocent civilians are mowed down? These officers didn't wake up one morning and decide to murder someone. And it doesn't matter if Bell was green. If you try to kill police officers, you or your family have no business complaining when they do whatever it takes to stop you. I do not understand the virilant hatred of an entire class of folks who have chosen to do a job that has stresses that most of you cannot comprehend and literally are risking their lives for YOU. And how some of you can make such tremendous across the board sweeping judgements of the motives of other people is completely beyond me, but "thou shalt not bear false witness" comes to mind. I tend to think that as believers we are to be very cautious in judging others because if we are wrong, we have sinned - big time.
As for the person who thinks that police officers do not have a dangerous job: Hello? What planet are you from? I live in an area with a much lower crime rate than NYC, but even here, officers risk their lives every day. A few years ago, a state trooper (young husband and father) was murdered in cold blood on a routine traffic stop. A deputy friend of mine had his leg broken (and if you knew how big he was, you'd realize that most folks would have been killed) responding to a conflict. Another officer in our area truly understands the value of a bullet proof vest. Another deputy in our area has no reason to be alive right now after a large semi cut him off as he was rushing to a call. I've been on a few ride alongs with officers around here, and even on their "slow" nights, they faced risks and stresses that most of you wagging your fingers of judgement can't even begin to comprehend. And 99% of the time, they do it with skill and honor. I'd say that is something to respect and admire.
I'm sorry, but some of you need to get your heads out of the sand and wake up. Yes, police officers are human and they make mistakes. But, they are also doing a job that is so dangerous and stressful, 95% of the public could never handle it. And as far as the Bell case being a racial issue - the ONLY racial issue is that some apparently think that being of a certain ethnic group means that it's ok to try and mow down the men in blue. And I personally find that disgusting.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 4:57:40 PM
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rnershigh
Posts: 1770
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: DC metro area
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Great post phosadaud.
And no, 1dblthnk02, it wouldn't have been any different if this man were white.
White, black, yellow, brown, green, purple....it doesn't matter what race you are. It doesn't matter what gender you are. It doesn't matter. If you break the law, resist arrest, and try to kill a police officer with a vehicle you bet the police are going to try to stop you and pull out their guns.
The police officers involved would still do whatever is necessary to protect themselves, their fellow police officers, and innocent people that could be hurt if they didn't do everything in their power to stop this man.
_____________________________
O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 5:27:08 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3370
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I think why so much attention given to this case was because it was the young mans wedding day, he was killed on. I do not think it is race, I really do not. I think it was tragic all the way around, I heard about man killed on wedding day, before I heard he was black.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 6:33:31 PM
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Starbucks880
Posts: 111
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I think this is a tragic case, but justice was served. These cops weren't hanging around hoping to shoot the first black people they saw. To find them guilty, there would have to be proof it wasn't justified, and it wasn't the case. They believed they were in a situation where there was about to be a gun fight. this was a place where there was suspected drug activity and they thought they heard someone mention gun. They thought they saw someone make a sudden move, which no one should do around a cop. They have a split second to make that decision. The fact that all the victims had prior weapons charges, while not making them deserve to die, would be part of the reason they would have reason to think they had a gun. And they hit a police vehicle. In a situation like that, it is very likely it was just chaos and they might not have been sure exactly where the bullets were coming from. Let's also not forget that the prosecution witnesses were not found to have any credibility. Might I also add that officers are trained to kill, not to wound and thinking someone has a gun--ie deadly force was about to be used against them would be justification to use deadly force. Also, the judge found that the state did not make their case and they had to be acquitted. No one wins here. I don't think these officers will forget soon what they did and the fiance is without her soon-to-be husband and a man is dead.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 6:43:05 PM
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dinomax55
Posts: 250
Joined: 6/22/2007
From: O-H-I-O
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I don't think some of you understand.. but hey, we all have our opinions, which are based on each person's own experiences. Ultimately, I pray that this kind of thing never happens again, but I feel that it probably will.
While there are many in law enforcement that make sacrifices for the public good every day, there are those in that line of work who aren't so innocent.
_____________________________
We can never achieve perfection.. but if we chase perfection we will catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 7:02:11 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4752
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
. . . and is therefore a racial epithet. Do you deny this?
No, but I am a "minority", so is that ok?
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
I didn't know that people had to be "qualified" to discuss racial issues.
Neither did I - but it seems that making this a racial issue is all you're concerned about.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 7:06:41 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1163
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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How can this be a racial issue, 2 cops were black, it has to do with more training for cops. And don't run over a cop.
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 7:20:58 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3370
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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I know, and tracy, you know what racial issues are, by experience. This is not racial, unless black on black killings, that happen unfortunetly everyday are racial. No one cares about that, and ministering to these kids.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
How can this be a racial issue, 2 cops were black, it has to do with more training for cops. And don't run over a cop.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 7:24:02 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4752
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I know, and tracy, you know what racial issues are, by experience. This is not racial, unless black on black killings, that happen unfortunetly everyday are racial.
Those are gang/drug related more than anything else. Control of the corners and areas.. ability to continue hand to hands and nation business.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 7:32:57 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3370
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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Well why do Shapton and Jackson, not claim black on black racial killings? It makes as much sense as saying two black cops, because of race targeted young black men? . Can Sharpton, and Jackson do something that matters? Why do they not care about gang members and black on black killings? Shows me they are just trouble makers wanting strife. They are too good to go to inner cities ans minister the gospel. Shapton is arrogant saying he has the power to stop the city.
[ Wquote]ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I know, and tracy, you know what racial issues are, by experience. This is not racial, unless black on black killings, that happen unfortunetly everyday are racial.
Those are gang/drug related more than anything else. Control of the corners and areas.. ability to continue hand to hands and nation business.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 8:03:29 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1163
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
Status: offline
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quote:
I know, and tracy, you know what racial issues are, by experience. This is not racial, unless black on black killings, that happen unfortunetly everyday are racial. No one cares about that, and ministering to these kids.
That's where I wish Sharpton and Jessie would spend more time. Addressing that. I have only been stopped by a cop probaly 3 times in my life, showed my junk and drove off.
Everyday I hear bullets, sirens, killings, mothers screaming over their babies, running getting my kids out of yard. But we like to say that's not important.
That's why I don't care for either one, is there racism, yes, but there are more things important than looking everywhere for a racist.
Let's address some of the real issues affecting us TODAY.
_____________________________
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 8:06:00 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7637
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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The entire thing is tragic, but it all boils down to what else were the officers supposed to do? If the driver of the car trying to run them down was Mary Poppins, they were still totally justified and SHOULD have done whatever it took to stop the car (the lethal weapon).
Yes, there are some officers who screw up. I personally know a couple. That has nothing to do with this though. It's easy to wag fingers and it's easy to want to scapegoat someone (especially the police it seems), but it's not so easy to walk in their shoes, take the risks they must take, deal with the sorts of folks they have to deal with, and all the while getting very little support from the community. I know officers who have gone to calls to help someone out, only to get spit on by the very person they are attempting to help.
I have a personal friend who is an officer and knows first hand what it is to be the center of a media driven circus that had nothing to do with facts (the media tends to snag a little fact here and a little fact there and spin a circus around it leaving the story devoid of pretty much any sense of truth) and everything to do with emotion. If you knew the guy, you would know he's one of the most compassionate, godly men out there. He is precisely who you WANT patrolling our streets, but even he knows what it is to be raked over the coals.
I'm the first person to say clean house when it comes to bad officers. That being said, let's make sure we are getting rid of the actual bozos not just whoever is caught up in the latest headline - no matter how tragic that headline is.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/27/2008 10:33:43 PM
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Stratplayer
Posts: 152
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Northern VA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
How can this be a racial issue, 2 cops were black, it has to do with more training for cops. And don't run over a cop.
A friend of ours was in a similar situation. He's a cop and was working a part-time security job. A kid and his friends skipped out on their restaurant bill and in the process of getting away, appeard to be chaging at the officer with their vehicle. Shots were fired and a 17-year old kid is dead. It's also the first time that our friend has had to his weapon...albiet while off duty working security. It's all a matter of perception. When dealing with police offiers, you have to consider the fact they are going to protect themselves and if you do something that raises suspicion, there's no telling what might happen. In these types of situation, the perceptions of both parties involved will have a direct impact on the outcome of the situation.
_____________________________
Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; (Phil. 2:14-15)
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/28/2008 9:30:06 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 626
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The lack of credibility of Bell's friends is their personal issue and has zero to do with the cops
Do you really believe that in court the credibility of cops do not take precedence over the word of civilians? You're not that naive.
If a judge and jury automatically take the word of law enforcement over the word of civilians, this is not their personal issue just because they are not believed if they tell the truth.
quote:
Actually a RPG would be a good weapon of choice to take out a vehicle if that is the weapon of the other person...
You know what I would do if someone was trying to run me down with a car?-- jump out of the way.
Gee, there's a novel idea.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 4/28/2008 9:36:42 AM >
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/28/2008 9:37:01 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 626
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
I honestly doubt that.
Why? How is it that race is not an issue?
quote:
If someone was stupid enough to attempt to mow down an armed police officer everyone I know would think that the idiot wasn't playing with a full deck. Actions have consequences.
We don't assassinate people with mental problems in this country. No one would applaud a cop for putting 50 bullets into, say, someone with Down's syndrome-- unless the poor unfortunate was black, perhaps.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/28/2008 9:37:21 AM
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earthless
Posts: 4752
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
You know what I would do if someone was trying to run me down with a car?-- jump out of the way.
Gee, there's a novel idea.
And cops should just be punching bags and target marks for criminals, you're right. I suppose officers working the jails should also just be there to let the inmates beat them up.
Sorry, but if I have given lawful commands which someone repeatedly ignores and they then try to run me over with a vehicle, I am going to unload all of my clips to stop the threat towards my life and the life of others.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/28/2008 9:41:46 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 626
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
And cops should just be punching bags and target marks for criminals, you're right.
Look, the guy didn't initiate the confrontation; the cops did.
quote:
I suppose officers working the jails should also just be there to let the inmates beat them up.
This didn't happen in a corrective institution; it happened in public. These "criminals" that you refer to were also civilians.
quote:
Sorry, but if I have given lawful commands which someone repeatedly ignores and they then try to run me over with a vehicle, I am going to unload all of my clips to stop the threat towards my life and the life of others.
This isn't about your police work. This is about how you and others applaud the blatant assassination of a young black man, and then effectively spit on his grave.
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/28/2008 9:46:31 AM
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earthless
Posts: 4752
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
Look, the guy didn't initiate the confrontation; the cops did.
They initiated it when they ignored/disobeyed lawful commands. And then initiated it even more when they used a deadly weapon.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
This isn't about your police work. This is about how you and others applaud the blatant assassination of a young black man, and then effectively spit on his grave.
Are you not concerned about the other non-black men that were shot along with him? Or are you, again, just pushing the black angle and nothing else. Even when two of the officers are black.
What I applaud are three officers not facing criminal charges for a situation that yes is tragic, but justified. More tragic would have been the death of these officers.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/28/2008 9:47:32 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 626
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
No, but I am a "minority", so is that ok?
As long as you tell the truth about labels like "Poverty Pimp."
quote:
Neither did I - but it seems that making this a racial issue is all you're concerned about.
I would have no reason to be concerned if people weren't saying, "Yaay! I'm glad he got gunned down. Now let's disrespect the dead."
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/28/2008 9:48:25 AM
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earthless
Posts: 4752
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
This didn't happen in a corrective institution; it happened in public.
Yet my point more than applies. Why? Because it seems you're of the mindset that also cries foul when correctional officers/deputy sheriff's/jail guards protect themselves from inmates.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
These "criminals" that you refer to were also civilians.
Civilians that:
a) disobeyed lawful commands that no one has the right to disobey
b) used a deadly weapon with the intent to cause death or serious bodily harm
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Police Found Not Guilty in Sean Bell Case - 4/28/2008 9:50:33 AM
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earthless
Posts: 4752
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
As long as you tell the truth about labels like "Poverty Pimp."
The truth is that individuals like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton make merchandise of the very group of people they claim to be fighting for. Keeping them down, inciting violence, making alliances with gang bangers and drug dealers, etc etc..
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
I would have no reason to be concerned if people weren't saying, "Yaay! I'm glad he got gunned down. Now let's disrespect the dead."
What does that sentiment have to do with race? A lot of people would feel/say the same regardless of the level of melanin in the person's skin.
STOP making this a black vs. everyone else issue - it's childish and ignorant.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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