After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (Full Version)

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beefcake_sleuth -> After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/26/2008 8:57:23 PM)

We are observing pre-active signs of death in my husbands mother. She is pulling at the sheets, withdrawing, showing signs of confusion, seeing people that aren't there, etc.

Does anyone have any experience with this and how long this phase usually takes place? I read once the move from pre-active state to active then there are only a few days.

I think it might be a good time to move in and help and by near for her.



stellaluna -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/27/2008 9:45:03 AM)

It kind of depends on what is going on physically. Also, is she still taking in nutrition?



Kat_D -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/27/2008 10:14:43 AM)

The pre-active stage is usually about two weeks and the active stage about three days. However, it differs with each patient.

My Mother lived about a month after the pre-active signs of death and then over a week after the active signs of death. Towards the end of the pre-active stage, we (her kids) all had time alone with her individually and told her we'd be fine and it was o.k. for her to go because she seemed anxious and unable to let go. She was a fighter.

It is difficult to predict how long this stage will be. The Hospice Crisis Team came in 3 times because they thought my Mom was very close, but each time she rallied. We did not expect her to go on the day she did, but thankfully we were all with her when she passed. Death is in God's hands.

My heart is with you and you are all in my thoughts and prayers.



phosadaud -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/27/2008 3:52:49 PM)

I used to care for folks in hospice and there really isn't any way of knowing for sure. I saw some folks who hung on for over a month. Others, it could be only minutes. Now is the time to keep her comfortable and love her.

God bless you and your family during this difficult time. [&o]



beefcake_sleuth -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/28/2008 8:29:42 AM)

Thanks, ya'll.

I had read two weeks and then three or four days for the active phase but I was curious as to how accurate that is. I tend to like to hear other peoples personal experiences.



beefcake_sleuth -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/28/2008 8:31:19 AM)

And stellaluna,

She is eating. Just bites at a time. Hardly anything at all. I tried feeding her yesterday and she wouldn't eat for me but did for her daughter.



stellaluna -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/28/2008 10:42:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beefcake_sleuth
And stellaluna,

She is eating. Just bites at a time. Hardly anything at all. I tried feeding her yesterday and she wouldn't eat for me but did for her daughter.

The reason I ask is because when my great-grandmother was dying, she refused to eat when it got closer to her actual death--no food, no liquids, no swallowing at all. Once you stop taking fluids, death is imminent under any circumstances.

I should ask, though, if your loved one has an IV. My great-grandmother did not.



JimboFletch -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/29/2008 4:25:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

quote:

ORIGINAL: beefcake_sleuth
And stellaluna,

She is eating. Just bites at a time. Hardly anything at all. I tried feeding her yesterday and she wouldn't eat for me but did for her daughter.

The reason I ask is because when my great-grandmother was dying, she refused to eat when it got closer to her actual death--no food, no liquids, no swallowing at all. Once you stop taking fluids, death is imminent under any circumstances.

I should ask, though, if your loved one has an IV. My great-grandmother did not.

My dad stopped taking food or water and lived another 13 days. I didn't think that was possible but I found out it's not uncommon.



phosadaud -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/29/2008 9:22:06 PM)

It is. There were folks I cared for who we honestly had no clue why they were still alive. It's one reason I cringe when folks freak out that their loved one has stopped eating and wanting to put a tube down their nose to force feed them. I just want to say: this is a natural part of dying. It's not suffering.



stellaluna -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (4/30/2008 9:30:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

quote:

ORIGINAL: beefcake_sleuth
And stellaluna,

She is eating. Just bites at a time. Hardly anything at all. I tried feeding her yesterday and she wouldn't eat for me but did for her daughter.

The reason I ask is because when my great-grandmother was dying, she refused to eat when it got closer to her actual death--no food, no liquids, no swallowing at all. Once you stop taking fluids, death is imminent under any circumstances.

I should ask, though, if your loved one has an IV. My great-grandmother did not.

My dad stopped taking food or water and lived another 13 days. I didn't think that was possible but I found out it's not uncommon.

Yes, let me clarify. She didn't die in two days or anything. It was over a week, but that was definitely during the "last days."



DustyLady -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (5/4/2008 9:12:28 AM)

I work in nursing homes, often with people who are at the end of life. One thing I've learned, from watching and caring for many people, is that there's no way to predict how long the process will take. I remember well a woman for whom I made a recommendation to stop oral nutrition, because she was no longer able to swallow. She had an IV for a few days, primarily to keep her alive long enough for a family member to arrive from out of town. But, even after the IV was removed, and she was receiving no kind of nutrition, she hung on for a good 3 or 4 days before she finally slipped away.

I would like to recommend a book for anyone going through something like this. Final Gifts, by Maggie Callanan and Patricia Kelley, who are both long-time hospice nurses and who talk about something called Nearing Death Awareness and the means that dying people have of communicating that to their loved ones and caretakers. Some of these may be talking about preparing to go on a trip, seeing angels or other people who aren't there (including loved ones who have gone on before), or talking about seeing where they are going. Sometimes they will need to see someone they haven't seen in a while (perhaps to resolve some old difference), or finish some task, or to be sure that those who are left will be taken care of and will be alright. Sometimes they need to be given permission to go, to know that those left behind will be alright without them. All of these things can often be discerned through careful observation of the dying person's words and actions.

My prayers for all going through this difficult time,
Dusty



DustyLady -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (5/4/2008 9:26:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beefcake_sleuth

And stellaluna,

She is eating. Just bites at a time. Hardly anything at all. I tried feeding her yesterday and she wouldn't eat for me but did for her daughter.


I work in nursing homes, with people who have difficulty swallowing or taking food for one reason or another. I don't mean to sound cruel, but in those last few days, when death becomes imminent, nutrition just isn't as important as it was before. The primary concern becomes the patient's comfort, and sometimes he/she can actually be more comfortable without food and drink, or with minimal offerings of that. Usually, as the body weakens, the muscles used for swallowing no longer work or are very weak, and food and drink end up causing the person to choke or go into the lungs and cause him/her to develop pneumonia. And, at this time, the part of the brain that tells us that we're hungry often stops working, perhaps as a protective mechanism for those who are unable to consume an entire meal, or at all.

I would recommend offering small bites of ice cream, or something that is cool and comforting to the throat, and yet is easy to swallow. Make sure to keep the lips and mouth moist, either with sips of liquids or foam swabs that can be gotten from the pharmacy. If the person doesn't want to eat or drink, then don't force the issue. If the person is unable to swallow solid food, puree it in the blender and thin that down with milk, then offer small spoonfuls as tolerated. Be sure that the person is sitting up straight, so that anything you give will not go down the wrong way. but, in the end, you may have to forego nutrition in favor of comfort.

God's blessings to you at this time,
Dusty



ladyamythist -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (5/4/2008 4:02:15 PM)

I can't thank you guys enough. My mother died at home about 11 years ago. I didn't understand the process at all. Hospice was there, but, while they were there, she kept rallying. So, they withdrew. That is when she started to go downhill. I think she only wanted it to be family. I used to feed her. Then, she didn't want to eat. And, if you feed her water, she threw it up. I didn't know what to do. We told her that it was okay to go. And, I have often wondered if, because I couldn't get anything in her, any nuitrition, if I killed her. Isn't that a thought? I didn't know about the appetite going and not being thirsty.

Thanks for sharing this. I know now that her body was shutting down. There was one interesting thing, though. Her eyes. She had been in a "sleeping state", where she just wasn't with us, and so, my sister advised me that we needed to turn her body just for comfort and so that she wouldn't get any sores. We disturbed her, I suppose, cause she opened her eyes, and it wasn't the person we knew anymore. You guys wouldn't believe this, unless you were Christians, and knew that there is life after our death in this world...but, out of her eyes flowed just waves of love...it was like looking into Jesus's eyes...I trully do believe that she had "gone over" or was somehow connected to the other world, and it changed her...she could not speak...and we didn't try to get her to speak...but, prior to this happening, my mom told me, when I visited her in the bedroom, that there were two angels waiting to take her. One was in the corner of the room, and she pointed out to the room of our house and told me that there was another one there. That breaks my heart. They were guarding her even in death! That angel on the roof of our house was there laying claim to the person who loved Jesus and was soon to leave this world.

God is so Good to have allowed me to have this. I know she is with the one that she truly loved, Jesus!



DustyLady -> RE: After the signs for preactive death are present, how much longer (5/4/2008 4:56:51 PM)

I just want to point out that there is a world of communication that can go on, without a word being spoken. Does she look at you with eyes full of love? Does she allow you to feed her and no one else? Does she relax at your touch? Does she lean toward you when you are speaking to her?

Sometimes just sitting next to someone quietly is enough.

Dusty



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