Who will stand? (Full Version)

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pstrdebi -> Who will stand? (4/28/2008 10:13:53 PM)

My husband and I are pastors in So. Oregon. We were called here 2 years ago and have found that this area is such a hard hit area for drugs, alcohol, etc... however, we have observed even more over the past few years how rampant "complacency" is in the church today. Is it just us... or are there others out there who are appalled by the defilement of the church today? User friendly churches who preach that everyone is "ok" without preaching the bold truths of the gospel... lesbians and gays preaching from the pulpit... and much more! Where are our Billy Grahams of today? Who will hold the leaders of the churches across America accountable? (yes, I know God will... however, we are called also to hold one-another accountable) Isn't it about time for the body of Christ to rise up and take a stand for truth? Jesus must weep at the condition of the church today. I would admonish the leaders today to re-read the letters to the churches in Revelations and ask yourselves without bias, which church are you?
Gods Blessings...



saraha98 -> RE: Who will stand? (4/28/2008 10:38:37 PM)

Oh my, how I do agree!! Fortunately I found a church 12 years ago that adheres to the Word of God. Our Pastor is a godly man who preaches God's Word boldly and never compromises his principles for anyone. Our Pastor of visitation is dedicated to his flock and makes daily calls on the congregation who are in the hospital, the nursing homes besides all the phone calls he makes daily. He calls everyone on their birthday and anniversary no matter where he is. Our youth pastor is dedicated to helping our teens in their relationship with Jesus, We have an energetic childrens pastor who loves our kids with this love of Jesus and a music minister that brings glory to God through his music choices each Sunday. I thank God every day that He led me to Crosspointe Church of the Nazarene. It is a place of worship, a place where the Bible is preached and a place where the congregation is striving to be more like Jesus. We need to pray that more churches will take a stand and stick with the Truth of Gods Word and stop compromising with the world.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 7:56:19 AM)

I think its blwon out of proportion.



Liveloved -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 9:39:03 AM)

quote:

Isn't it about time for the body of Christ to rise up and take a stand for truth?


I pray for the church to arise. But not necessarily to "take a stand for truth" as you have said it. Taking a stand for truth, in the place in which I live, usually amounts to taking a stand against other people's sin and being oblivious to one's own. We can denounce the sins others struggle with or we can love those who are caught in sin's bondage because we know the One Who loves us and has set us free.

Anyway, yes, the church must arise and live boldly for Jesus! Loving the lost and dealing with my own sin and speaking truth into the world---that is how I live. I must deal with others as the Lord has dealt with me---mercifully.

Bless you for your work to help others be set free and for those who are free to live as free men![:)]



zamdad -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 1:36:36 PM)

quote:

Isn't it about time for the body of Christ to rise up and take a stand for truth?


Seems we all like to say this. Yet, how often do we compromise our own personal stand with regard to Christ and His truth? Afterall, we (you and me) are the church, the body of Christ. Why do we want others to stand when we so frequently fail to take that stance ourselves?



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 4:02:20 PM)

Sarah...

Thank God for the Godly pastors youhave that will lead their flock in righteousness. Praise God for the truth of the Word spoken boldly!

May God continue to have His hand upon your church... and may you continue to lift your pastors in prayer, as they are in a battle for thier flock on a continuous basis.

God bless... Pastor Debi



frankman -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 4:18:55 PM)

I have heard from other ministries that Portland is a hard nut to crack. People from BGEA and Can. Revival Fellowship have worked there over the years and they say that the darker the city the brighter will be the light of the Gospel. They say there is a greater hunger for the word in the Portland area and less complacency then in other less sinful areas of our country. So be encouraged, God may have placed you in a dark corner of the world in order to be a bright light.

2 Tim.4:3 tells us "For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." We seem to be living in that age. People don`t want to hear messages about sin anymore, nor that they are sinners and need to confess their sins and repent. The Churches need to hear more messages on collective Church confession of sins. We need to get back into a prayer and Bible study mode. Trouble is, this is not popular today. People want to hear messages on the love of God and not that they are sinners and need to repent. People want to be entertained and not preached to anymore. [sm=icon_smile_question.gif] Is this maybe why the Church is loosing it`s power and influence on our society? Are we off-focus?

In Ezekiel 22:30 God asks who will fill the gap on behalf of the land so I won`t have to destroy it. God is calling us to pray, live and speak His Word if need be to our people in our country so our country may not face destruction. [sm=icon_smile_question.gif] Will we be faithful in standing firm for Him by filling the gap?



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 4:33:50 PM)

LiveLoved...

I absolutely agree that we cannot be condemning when we are in sin... and I agree that we need to "hate the sin but love the sinner."

We will all fail... but we are not to fall. We are all called to righteousness by a righteous God. In that, God calls us to hold others accountable.... and yes... in love, but not waivering from the truth of the Word.

Galatians 6:1 tells us, "Brethern, if a man is overtaken in any tresspass, you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself, lest you also be tempted."
also...
"And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it, if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it. Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it ( 1 Cor. 12:26-27).

Jesus himself spoke boldly against sin and degregation. We cannot close our eyes to sin... as God does not close His eyes to sin.

Please do not mis-understand... There are many, as myself, who will fail... and need to repent. However... there is, I believe, a huge difference between the daily mistakes we make and those who are in willful sin and calling themselves righteous. And yes, there is also forgiveness for them.

May God richly bless you!
Pastor Debi



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 4:44:22 PM)

Frankman...

GOD BLESS YOU... GOD BLESS YOU ... GOD BLESS YOU!!!!!!!!!

You made me cry. YES... thank you and AMEN!!!

We know that God called us here. I am originaly from So Cal... all my life. However, God revealed to me (after whining about be in this place) that He has sent us out just as He called Jonah to go to Ninaveh. YIKES!!!

This is a dark place. The first day that my husband and I drove into this little town (about 30 miles north of Medford) we felt such a darkness and oppression here. sad. The generational sins are so deep rooted.

We are in the last days... and I fear for the flocks that are being led astray.
The pastor of the largest church in America spoke at a pastors conference and said the he will never speak of the cross or the blood because it offends people. My goodness.

God bless you again!!!!!
Pastor Debi



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 5:04:22 PM)

zamdad...

(I like that name!)

Yes... often folks will preach, and then sit back while everyone else does the work. That is a sad fact from sunday school teachers to evangelists!

I am thankful that I have a strong and godly husband, pastor and teacher who has taught me that if we don't get our hands a little dirty then all talk is in vain. We strongly believe in discipleship... and we won't tell our congregation to do anything that we are not willing to do ourselves. Nor would I tell anyone here to do something that I am not willing to stand up and do also.

Jesus told us that we will endure persecussion... and we do because of the truth. But we cannot compromise God's Word.

Thanks and God bless you. I like the quote too... Abe is one of my fav's!
Pastor Debi



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 9:16:33 PM)

Quote from: CherishedByGod

"Many of the ones abusing are victims of abuse. They don't need people to point out their sins.

I ask where are the people who will take the time and work with the Holy Spirit to take an active interest in these youth - to be Jesus to these hurting souls? Where are the people who will grieve with these wounded souls and be Jesus to them? "

***********************************************************************************


Maybe YOU could be those people. Maybe God is calling YOU to minister to these hurt and lost youth. Maybe YOU could be Jesus hands.

We recently had the opportunity to minister to a young man who has had a hard life. Smokes pot and ciggerettes... drinks... his mom is a meth addict and his dad and then his moms boyfriend were abusive, etc. We were able to absolutely share the love of Christ with him as well as point out that he was headed down the wrong path. He received Christ that night... committed to counseling... and three days later was telling a friend that if he didn't change his lifestyle he would be "dragged in to the pit of hell" (his words, not mine... however true).

You can preach truth in love... in fact Jesus told us to. You can't preach love without preaching conviction.

I would not be able to live with myself if I ignored the Holy Spirit's prompting to tell someone about thier impending destination, only to find out the next day they OD'ed on drugs the night before.

A reminder... When Jesus first began His ministry, His first Words are in Matthew 4:17

We ARE living in the last days... and I, personaly, do not want to stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ and have to explain why I didn't warn people... (Col 1:28).

God bless you and your church. I hope that you can find a way to minister to the youth. There is a wonderful program for youth derived from "Celebrate Recovery" (Rick Warren - John Baker - Saddleback Church - Purpose Driven Life) It is called, "Life Hurts, God Heals." It is a great program with great results... and since you are right across from the school... it would be wonderful! Here is a link: http://www.simplyyouthministry.com/life-hurts-god-heals.html

Good luck and God bless!
Pastor Debi



SonInMe1 -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 9:24:35 PM)

Is God dependant on us to save people?



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 9:39:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdeb

Maybe YOU could be those people. Maybe God is calling YOU to minister to these hurt and lost youth. Maybe YOU could be Jesus hands.

I am and He has called me.

You can preach truth in love... in fact Jesus told us to. You can't preach love without preaching conviction.

I cannot convict anyone...Only the Holy Spirit can convict... I do not teach conviction as I cannot...I teach the Word of God... I teach people about Jesus Christ of Nazareth

I would not be able to live with myself if I ignored the Holy Spirit's prompting to tell someone about thier impending destination, only to find out the next day they OD'ed on drugs the night before.

No Christian should ignore the Holy Spirit's promptings, although I admit I have. Have you never?

A reminder... When Jesus first began His ministry, His first Words are in Matthew 4:17

I do not need you to remind me...I am very familiar with the Word of God.

We ARE living in the last days... and I, personaly, do not want to stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ and have to explain why I didn't warn people... (Col 1:28).

I hope that is not all you are concerned about; not warning people...

God bless you and your church. I hope that you can find a way to minister to the youth. There is a wonderful program for youth derived from "Celebrate Recovery" (Rick Warren - John Baker - Saddleback Church - Purpose Driven Life) It is called, "Life Hurts, God Heals." It is a great program with great results... and since you are right across from the school... it would be wonderful! Here is a link: http://www.simplyyouthministry.com/life-hurts-god-heals.html

I am well aware of "Celebrate Recovery....thanks anyway...



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 10:44:38 PM)

CherishedByGod....

Goodness... you took that way out of context!!
I certainly did not intend to offend anyone and apologize if I did.
I was not on the attack, and appreciate not being attacked myself.

I was simply stating that since this was a burden on YOUR heart... that maybe God was calling you. You see, you previously did not mention that you WERE ministering to them. Again, I apologize.

I cannot convict anyone...Only the Holy Spirit can convict... I do not teach conviction as I cannot...I teach the Word of God... I teach people about Jesus Christ of Nazareth

The Holy Spirit preaches conviction through us.

No Christian should ignore the Holy Spirit's promptings, although I admit I have. Have you never?

Absolutely... and I have to live with that choice every day of my life. That is why I can't do it again.

I do not need you to remind me...I am very familiar with the Word of God.

Why would this offend you? Just pointing out that even Jesus preached repentance.

(I said) We ARE living in the last days... and I, personaly, do not want to stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ and have to explain why I didn't warn people... (Col 1:28).

(you replied) I hope that is not all you are concerned about; not warning people...

Please... are we all adults here?

(I said) God bless you and your church. I hope that you can find a way to minister to the youth. There is a wonderful program for youth derived from "Celebrate Recovery" (Rick Warren - John Baker - Saddleback Church - Purpose Driven Life) It is called, "Life Hurts, God Heals." It is a great program with great results... and since you are right across from the school... it would be wonderful! Here is a link: http://www.simplyyouthministry.com/life-hurts-god-heals.html

(you replied) I am well aware of "Celebrate Recovery....thanks anyway...

Again... did I offend you by saying "God bless you"... and offering info to resources?

None of us minister exactly the way another does... and none can be expected to have the same views. The folks on these forums sometimes forget that they are carrying the label of Christian. We need to stop trying to read between the lines, thinking that someone is saying something they're not... or taking offense when there was none meant.

If you re-read my post... you will see that I am simply concerned with people going to hell rather than heaven, and I think that is a pretty darn good concern. It seemed to be Jesus'.

Again, I apologize if you took my comments the wrong way. They were not meant to offend, and they were simply my opinions. Opinons are the purpose of forums.

God bless you...
Pastor Debi



pstrdebi -> RE: Who will stand? (4/29/2008 11:02:07 PM)

Well... I am a pastor...
and that is what I am called and how I respond.

If you have trouble being nice, perhaps there are other people you could put down.

God bless you again...
Pastor Debi



zamdad -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 12:44:04 AM)

quote:

SonInMe1
Is God dependant on us to save people?


He uses us. Does that make him dependant on us? Doubtful. But, He does use us.

So, I guess what I want to say in this (I'm in rare form today) is that this discussion took a turn that deflects from Christ and seems to have taken a Revrend Wright, me, me, me approach to humanity. This is supposed to be about taking a stand for Christ. Yet, the last few posts seem to have taken it to a personal level instead of seeking His Glory by looking out for others first. Get over yourselves and stand for Him!



zamdad -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 1:34:22 AM)

CherishedbyGod,

Yes you are. You are the name you've picked for yourself. Perhaps you are trying to get over yourself. Aftger having been around these forums for awahile, you are someone I respect. I've decided to post this here rather than sending you an IM. The OP was about putting self aside and standing for Christ. PastorDebi is new to the forums and you shot her down like a blackbird flying past a trap shoot range. You seem to be huring today and you let it show. We all have days like that. There is no intent of injury in my post, simply truth which often hurts just as much. As I sign off tonight and head to bed, you're in my prayers.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 7:47:29 AM)

quote:

The Holy Spirit preaches conviction through us.


It can, no doubt. However before you go off and convict someone, make sure its the Holy Spirit. It sounds like...no kidding...but many hurts come from well meaning people who think they are Holy Spirit led when they are just emotionallty led.

I will add not all christians are on the Pastor Warren and the Purpose driven life bandwagon and programs associated with Pastor Warren are often colored with the same brush.

I will add some more here....not everyone thinks a lady should be a pastor.



deliveredarling -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 8:01:15 AM)

I think we take a stand every time we question strange doctrine or theology. It seems here in the past year, I have this experience over and over. It's hard when the message isn't popular. It doesn't feel good to hear it, so people run from it. This mentality that if it doesn't feel good, then it can't be from God. Well, Jesus says differently. That, take up your cross, thing...... He told us to count the cost BEFORE we make the decision. Seems to me that this is quite telling. I wonder if this means that if we don't do this, when the day comes, will He say to those who do not take up the cross, "Depart from me, for I never knew you?" Sounds like this very well could be the case!



Liveloved -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 9:45:49 AM)

OK, I have some questions for those who are speaking of taking a stand.

Do you ever wonder if "taking a stand" has more to do with ME, my pride, my self righteousness, my being right and telling you I'm right than with LOVING THE LOST?


Do you think "taking a stand" on doctrinal issues is what Jesus did? When did He "take a stand" against alcoholism, for example? or homosexuality?

I don't think Jesus took stands. He lived and spoke and taught and loved truth. And therein lies the difference. It was the Pharisees who took stands against others and their sins. They brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus. They were "taking a stand" against sin. And what did Jesus do?

If taking a stand such as is being referred to here were Jesus' way, I would heartily agree and be a part. But I don't see Jesus doing this. In fact, I see Him doing something very different. Don't you?


Pastor Debi, I am not speaking to your OP. You want the church to arise and I say a hearty AMEN to that! But what the church needs is more of Jesus, not to take stands. So bless you as you lead the church to conviction over OUR sin, over OUR lack of love and passion for Jesus, over OUR self sufficiency and complacency, and OUR pridefulness. Yes, preach the messages from Revelation and live in repentance with ALL men. Bless you! [:)]LL



HisCovenant -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 10:15:13 AM)

I am aghast at how the church doesn't stand for the things of God. What I have found is that many don't know Christ or God so they don't know how to live. The leadership over the church promotes gossip about God and programs, but doesn't foster real relationship with God... while deluding itself that the programs and gossip are promoting relationship. It beats all I've ever seen.

I agree with LiveLoved that the things of God aren't always what we want to pridefully take a stand against. Are there things we need to fight against? Sure! But Christians who are serious and growing in relationship to God understand the complexity of balancing Truth and Love in a way that "take a stand" doesn't necessarily imply. We need to seriously get to know God as He has revealed Himself and live for Him. The proper stances automatically will come out of that as we fear Him.



deliveredarling -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 1:29:49 PM)

The very best example we have of taking a stand is: Jesus Christ on the cross for us to abolish sin! What more do you need to know?



Liveloved -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 1:54:23 PM)

quote:

The very best example we have of taking a stand is: Jesus Christ on the cross for us to abolish sin! What more do you need to know?


Oh, Delivered. . .He died. He layed down His life. He gave up His life.

Please don't be offended. I do not mean to offend you. I love you. You are a dear sister in the Lord.

But this discussion is the very discussion Jesus had with the religious people of His day. And He humbled Himself to the point of death on a cross. Humbling yourself and taking a stand are very different.

Truly He abolished sin for us on the cross but He did it by dying, by giving up, by laying down His life. If He'd called in the angels and set up His kingdom, you could say He took a stand. He did not. He said Thy will be done and was crucified. He was not standing. He was dying. For us. For you and for me. That's what I know.



deliveredarling -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 3:02:41 PM)

LL, absolutely no offense was taken! [:)]I'm shocked that you would even thought that you offended me.

He took a stand in the cross in the sense that He loved us so much that He did die for us, that sin was so offensive to Him.

Here are the things that He took stands against (all from His teachings) I'll only list the scripture references for times sake.

accountability-Luke 16:1-2
confession of sin-Luke 15:21, 32, Luke 18:13-14
depravity of man-Matt 12:34, 15:19, John 3:19, 5:42 ,44, 8:23-24, 14:17, 15:24
hypocrisy-Matt 6:1-2, 16, 7:5, 16-20, 16:2-3, 23:5:13-15, 23-30, Luke 11:42-53, Mark 7:6-8, Luke 6:46,12:1, Luke 16:15, 20:46-47, John 7:19

If you want I can post the rest. This is a good start. taking a stand for or against something doesn't mean starting a riot! Listen to His tone as you read these. They are firm, straight to the point, yet loving, for the most part, except when talking to the Pharisees, the He gets harsh. He just doesn't mess around with it. IMO that is taking a stand. He doesn't go back on His word, He doesn't compromise or cave into the majority thinking. He stands firm-an example to us all. He lived what he believed without complacency and proclaimed it loudly and proudly. We should all follow this example in our lives.



rcjames -> RE: Who will stand? (4/30/2008 3:21:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

Is God dependant on us to save people?


Interesting question SonInMe1, did Jesus not leave 11 folks with instructions to spread the Gospel;

Did Jesus not say;

(Joh 17:20) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

And did Jesus not give this commandment;

(Act 1:8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

And did not Jesus ask this soul searching question concerning that command;

(Luk 18:8) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Kinda, sorta sounds as though we do have a responsibility in spreading the Gospel.

Are you doing your part?

Thanks
RC



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