RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (Full Version)

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tracydolls -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 3:33:27 PM)

she has to think about her fan base. little girls, in the world is this a good role model? why do it, she certainly doesnt need the money. I'm not ready to let my kids know everything, trying to explain why Hannah Montana is dressed like that, her and her parents have a right to take naked pictures from trees, if they want, but then you make sure your fans don't see it, that means , I take the memory card, etc.

How did it get out?



john_mark -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 3:42:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sjd2008

Seems to me that some of you are willing to thow Miss Cyrus under the bus far too quickly.


the cyrus family chose to live under the spotlight. her father fully understood what stardom brings. they chose to have this photo shoot for the intention of displaying miley cyrus, these were not photos that were never intended to leak out. if you choose to present yourself before the world in a certain manner, are you not responible for that choice? this is a family that is marketing their daughter to the american public in a certain way, the public will respond. those who find nothing offensive will continue to embrace her, others will look for more, and others will walk away from the miley cyrus brand. if i choose to walk away, isnt fair to the cyrus family to let them know why?



Jhud -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 4:30:10 PM)

Hasn't this all happened before? Weren't Kate & Ashley Olsen wholesome examples for our kids? Brittany? Hillary Duff?

If I see anything in my lifetime, I hope I see Christians in the US come to the realization that nothing they see in the popular media is real. Whether we are talking about 'Christian' singers and actors, Christian ministry personalities whose main work is through the media, 'Christian' politicians, or supposed 'Christian' conversions by well known media personalities, the reality there is no way to 'know' what they really are on a personal level - and so we just shouldn't buy it.

And I don't mean we shouldn't purchase music or movie tickets, or listen to popular speakers - what I mean is we shouldn't buy into the notion that we can discern at a distance what they are really up to in their lives. These pictures might be a naive mistake; or they might be the next step of Miley's 'career', selling her to an older crowd. There is no way to know - so we either have to appreciate her as an artist (and I say that word here trying not to spit up) or just ignore the package all together - because that is what it is, a package, and nothing more.

What we should be doing instead of giving one seconds thought to what the media sells us is concentrating on robust local communities where fruit is evident and verifiable, where music and art and teaching comes from and feeds the local body of believers. We need to distance ourselves from this media tripe and cultivate things that are real and true, instead of wringing our hands over the latest pseudo-Christian celebrity scandal.



stellaluna -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 5:12:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud

Hasn't this all happened before? Weren't Kate & Ashley Olsen wholesome examples for our kids? Brittany? Hillary Duff?

If I see anything in my lifetime, I hope I see Christians in the US come to the realization that nothing they see in the popular media is real. Whether we are talking about 'Christian' singers and actors, Christian ministry personalities whose main work is through the media, 'Christian' politicians, or supposed 'Christian' conversions by well known media personalities, the reality there is no way to 'know' what they really are on a personal level - and so we just shouldn't buy it.

And I don't mean we shouldn't purchase music or movie tickets, or listen to popular speakers - what I mean is we shouldn't buy into the notion that we can discern at a distance what they are really up to in their lives. These pictures might be a naive mistake; or they might be the next step of Miley's 'career', selling her to an older crowd. There is no way to know - so we either have to appreciate her as an artist (and I say that word here trying not to spit up) or just ignore the package all together - because that is what it is, a package, and nothing more.

What we should be doing instead of giving one seconds thought to what the media sells us is concentrating on robust local communities where fruit is evident and verifiable, where music and art and teaching comes from and feeds the local body of believers. We need to distance ourselves from this media tripe and cultivate things that are real and true, instead of wringing our hands over the latest pseudo-Christian celebrity scandal.

[sm=thumbsup.gif]



zamdad -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 5:27:38 PM)

It seems that JHUD and myself have posted at least a couple of times today that, if there is any shame to be taken from this matter, it should be with our busy body, gossiping approach and for devouring what the media is feeding us. To me it's more proof that we are more influenced by the popular, media culture than we are by God's word and that the media has more influence on us than we do on our world.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 5:29:30 PM)

I don't know anything about this child and had to ask my husband who she was when this was all over the news last night. But the fact is that some have heard/read that the parents were there, while some have heard/read that they had left before the latter part of the photo-shoot when these were done. I am of the latter.

We all believe what we want to believe at all times, based upon our experience or lack thereof, on our propensities, on our impressions. That's the way it is.

As far as I am concerned, we may never know the truth, but how much does that matter? This girl remains a child created in G-d's image, not someone to be used, whether by us in our disdain or by the photographers.



sjd2008 -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 6:30:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

I am not throwing anyone under a bus. The simple fact is that she touts herself as a Christian. That means she is placing herself in a position that requires a certain lifestyle. If she is going against what Christ wants, then she will be held accountable. Is she as accountable as a pastor? No. Is she more accountable than an unbeliever? Yes. If she is going to talk it, she needs to walk it. She needs to learn to be a Christ-like example to the youth more than ever now. She needs to tell everyone that it was a horrible mistake, and she needs to take great care not to do anything else that is typical of worldly obsession these days.


Entertainers are just that. entertainers. They sing, dance, act, or play an instrument or a sport. However, they are not role models. We set them up to be role models when in fact they are just doing what they get paid for. Whatever her confession of Christ is, she has fallen short in some people's eyes. However, like all of us, she has to answer to God, not us, for her sins. It is truly up to God what is sin and what is not. Since she wasn't nude, would anyone care to comment on what sin she committed?



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 8:53:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sjd2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace

I am not throwing anyone under a bus. The simple fact is that she touts herself as a Christian. That means she is placing herself in a position that requires a certain lifestyle. If she is going against what Christ wants, then she will be held accountable. Is she as accountable as a pastor? No. Is she more accountable than an unbeliever? Yes. If she is going to talk it, she needs to walk it. She needs to learn to be a Christ-like example to the youth more than ever now. She needs to tell everyone that it was a horrible mistake, and she needs to take great care not to do anything else that is typical of worldly obsession these days.


Entertainers are just that. entertainers. They sing, dance, act, or play an instrument or a sport. However, they are not role models. We set them up to be role models when in fact they are just doing what they get paid for. Whatever her confession of Christ is, she has fallen short in some people's eyes. However, like all of us, she has to answer to God, not us, for her sins. It is truly up to God what is sin and what is not. Since she wasn't nude, would anyone care to comment on what sin she committed?


I figure Paul's verse regarding modesty would come into play...

John



gaylel1 -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/29/2008 11:14:43 PM)

First of all, no one is bad mouthing the girl, but if you call yourself a believer, you try your best to not to compomise with the world. This girl was misguided, not only by the media, but the parents as well. Look, I work with young girls who follow Disney stars (And their divisions promote ungodly values, including the Alphabet Network.) who think these girls are "god", but I often tell them that you need to pray for their salvation, if they have not accepted the Lord already.

Secondly, I hope really that she learn by her mistake, but the fault lies with her parents, who should have known better. In fact, the parents should get some counseling from a pastor.

You wonder sometimes with these "Celebrity Christians," what type of bibical teaching, if any they are getting. Some celebrity christians follow those who are false teachers--that's another thread for another time.

Wes is right--if you are going to talk about your faith, well you need to learn how to walk the walk, not say any lip service. I rather support someone as a young person like Kierra "Ki Ki" Sheard or Bethany Dillon instead of the Disney people. At least these people who are Christian singers talk the talk and walk the walk, and Kierra has godly parents who are pastors.







Memaw. -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 12:18:55 AM)

We all make mistakes and I for one would not want my mistake publicized all over the world, so in saying that, I will not throw a stone.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 12:37:26 AM)

I guess I keep bringing this up because of the shock factor it had upon me, but I saw two photos of this little girl: the first was one in which she wore clothes I would not have wanted my daughter to wear. Reality is that these clothes did not show any more skin than is common among churched girls, but they portrayed an attitude, which she SEEMED to be also portraying in her actions -- that of wild, unseemly, in-your-face, and really (sorry) ugly.

The other was one in which she appeared to be nude, but a cloth (blanket, piece of fabric) covered everything strategically.

The first was just what I perceive as a teen-acting-out shot. The second may be called by some "art," but it was, in reality, bottom line, a little girl appearing to be nude with little for covering. It was for effect, and it was successful.

But the fact I want to present, that has been my proverbial dead horse beaten since I first experienced it, is that I have seen Far More Skin In a Church -- on three different adult women, on the same day, two of whom I know for sure were members of that church.

The Bible clearly states that nakedness is a curse on the nations that neglect G-d. We can claim that this means poverty, but how do we know that was G-d's only intention in the Scriptures? I can write this without shame: the nakedness among the many in my nation (U.S.A.) has cursed this nation with lost innocense, with hardness toqard one another, and objectifying women to the point at which Christian women do not even know that they are unashamedly objectifying themselves in the supposed "house of G-d." I believe that our nation has been cursed with nakedness in spite of our plenty.



Memaw. -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 12:51:46 AM)

I showed the photos to my 15 yr old daughter to get her reaction.

She wasn't surprised by the one in question, she was more surprised by the ones posing with Billy Ray.
She said they "look more like boyfriend and girlfriend than dad and daughter".
I agree with that.

Our children are being forced to grow up too fast and too early.
Sexuality is promoted, packaged and sold in nice little bite sized morsels to a depraved nation (and world).

I don't blame Miley for this, she is a child.
I do however hold her parents responsible and warn them that once their little girls innocence is shattered, it can not be restored.



WesP -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 10:16:48 AM)

quote:

Entertainers are just that. entertainers. They sing, dance, act, or play an instrument or a sport. However, they are not role models. We set them up to be role models when in fact they are just doing what they get paid for. Whatever her confession of Christ is, she has fallen short in some people's eyes. However, like all of us, she has to answer to God, not us, for her sins. It is truly up to God what is sin and what is not. Since she wasn't nude, would anyone care to comment on what sin she committed?


There seems to be a wide-spread failure in the Christian community to realize that calling a sin a sin is advocated in the bible. Judging the salvation of another is totally out-of-bounds for us, and I certainly have not committed that error here. I judged her behavior based on her claims, but I did not judge her soul. I even went on to say what I thought she should do to minimize the damage. I did not say stick her in a closet or ignore all else she says or does. I hope that she has realized how damaging this photo op has been, and I hope she redresses the situation.

We all do make mistakes, but most of us do not have the influence that Miley has with the public. Her mistakes can be more costly for others. That is why it is disheartening.



stellaluna -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 10:43:43 AM)

The pressure of a public life is something most of us will never experience and can never understand. We see Christian entertainers fall under pressure all the time as they work in the Christian entertainment industry and attacked by their brothers and sisters in Christ for their shortcomings. How much harder is it to be a Christian and try to survive a career in the secular entertainment industry? I refuse to judge this 15-year-old or her parents.

I also maintain that as long as humans are put on pedestals, they will continue to fall off. Please remember that the people you look up to and allow your children to look up to will eventually do something you don't like. That isn't necessarily their problem either. It may very well be yours.



Jhud -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 10:52:24 AM)

quote:

I also maintain that as long as humans are put on pedestals, they will continue to fall off. Please remember that the people you look up to and allow your children to look up to will eventually do something you don't like. That isn't necessarily their problem either. It may very well be yours.


Excellent point. In fact, we often create the pedastals and the pressure, all the while waiting with stones when those we have ourselves had a part in creating fall down.

One of the thing that strikes me in particular about Miley Cyrus is the fact that she spends a significant part of her life literally being another persona; it's not just like she plays Hannah Montana in a movie or on TV, but her entire career is built out of being this other person. I can't imagine what this does to one's psyche.



kvsmm -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 11:09:00 AM)

Miley is 15. When I was 15, I did some pretty foolish things. I grew up. I am not as worried about her as I am the relative who was there when they shot, or the mentality of the magazine.

If a teacher or a pastor or just Joe Shmow had that photo on his web page, some one would be charging him with internet kiddie porn. Where are the Christians who are canceling their subscription to the magazine? Where is the local police department? That's called 'soft porn' and when there's a child involved, it's a crime.

Miley is a foolish teenager. There were adults present who knew better. I think they are the one's who should be in the paper and in jail right now.



Qtman -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 11:23:55 AM)

All of this reminds me of growing up as a preachers kid. One of my best friend's dad owned a beer store and was known for his rowdiness. However, Jackie and I could both be doing the same thing and what would be said is "look over there ain't that the preachers son doing that." No one noticed Jackie was also doing the same thing.

I think we do the same thing with celebrities. They are in the spot light and sometimes I think we expect them to be more than they are. So when they do something we consider wrong it is more noticeable and more offensive to us. Maybe we should reevaluate our own feelings instead of putting them down for being human and mistake prone.



sjd2008 -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 11:35:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
There seems to be a wide-spread failure in the Christian community to realize that calling a sin a sin is advocated in the bible. Judging the salvation of another is totally out-of-bounds for us, and I certainly have not committed that error here. I judged her behavior based on her claims, but I did not judge her soul. I even went on to say what I thought she should do to minimize the damage. I did not say stick her in a closet or ignore all else she says or does. I hope that she has realized how damaging this photo op has been, and I hope she redresses the situation.

We all do make mistakes, but most of us do not have the influence that Miley has with the public. Her mistakes can be more costly for others. That is why it is disheartening.



Wes,

I just can't figure out what sin she committed exactly. She posed with a bare back. She wasn't nude! She wasn't caught having illicit sex, or with drugs or alcohol. Now, do I think the photos are appropriate for a 15 year old? No. Other than having some poor judgment I'm not so sure that she did anything sinful.

Now, if she did commit a sin, that is between her and God. God is her judge, not us. She is a performer and an entertainer. Anyone who looks to another human as a role model is somewhat flirting with idolatry. We are supposed to keep our focus on Christ, not on a 15 year old singer. IMHO, she has nothing to redress with us, she may have something to talk to God about.



zoebob -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 11:43:10 AM)

In my brief search I couldn't find the "nude" photos but I did see the ones of her wiht her dad and agree they look more like boyfriend/girlfriend



csl7037 -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 4:36:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zoebob

In my brief search I couldn't find the "nude" photos but I did see the ones of her wiht her dad and agree they look more like boyfriend/girlfriend


I think with the exact same look on her face minus that hideous makeup, it would've been sweet.

I do think it's being blown out of proportion. Was it a mistake? Certainly. Were her parents there? I've heard different things on that. It's easy to forget that she's 15 and I agree with everyone here that we have to remember that 15 year olds can't be expected to have the best jugement. They were working with a very famous photographer, I'm sure she made everything seem super artistic and cool and it may have seemed like a good enough idea at the time. I think the biggest problem here is that everyone around her is thinking like a parent or manager. The person who should've been in the room at the time to say "yea, that's not a photo we need to be taking" would've been a publicist or PR person. In the position that she's in, someone needs to be protecting the mega star. I think a lot of people want to protect the child (and I firmly believe her parents mean well) but's easy to lose sight of the child when you're in a business setting. They need someone in the mix solely focused on looking ahead to how interviews and photos are going to be presented or spun, realizing that there are a lot of people just waiting for her to fall and a lot who are hoping she does to sell more magazines. I'm astonished that Disney does't take a greater control with these very young stars (ie Vanessa Hudgins). I think their parents have to stay in the first tier of decision makers for these kids but they need a purely professional perspective as well.

I, for one, hope Miley can weather all of this and learns from these little bumps in the road and guards herself better. As for the photo with Billy Ray (and in the spirit of honesty, I should confess I'm a huge BRC fan!), you've got to look at it as two "stars" or personas posing for a magazine spread. It wasn't a father-daughter family photo. I think maybe the whole tenor of the interview and the shoot was not well thought through - maybe Vanity Fair isn't an appropriate place for Miley Cyrus quite yet. She's that level of star but she's not that level - she's really in a complicatd place. Somewhere I saw video of that shoot were she was hanging and swinging from the branch of a nearby tree like a little girl. Then the cameras start clicking and she hits pop star mode. I think they need to watch that.



WesP -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 4:47:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sjd2008

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesSavedByGrace
There seems to be a wide-spread failure in the Christian community to realize that calling a sin a sin is advocated in the bible. Judging the salvation of another is totally out-of-bounds for us, and I certainly have not committed that error here. I judged her behavior based on her claims, but I did not judge her soul. I even went on to say what I thought she should do to minimize the damage. I did not say stick her in a closet or ignore all else she says or does. I hope that she has realized how damaging this photo op has been, and I hope she redresses the situation.

We all do make mistakes, but most of us do not have the influence that Miley has with the public. Her mistakes can be more costly for others. That is why it is disheartening.



Wes,

I just can't figure out what sin she committed exactly. She posed with a bare back. She wasn't nude! She wasn't caught having illicit sex, or with drugs or alcohol. Now, do I think the photos are appropriate for a 15 year old? No. Other than having some poor judgment I'm not so sure that she did anything sinful.

Now, if she did commit a sin, that is between her and God. God is her judge, not us. She is a performer and an entertainer. Anyone who looks to another human as a role model is somewhat flirting with idolatry. We are supposed to keep our focus on Christ, not on a 15 year old singer. IMHO, she has nothing to redress with us, she may have something to talk to God about.


This is just a repeat of what you said before. I was trying to clarify the situation for you. If something is inappropriate, that suggests something. No? Basically, you are saying that she did something that was not suitable. Why is it not suitable or appropriate? Obviously, we have different views on this because I think the whole photo op was immoral.

Secondly, I have not judged her.

Lastly, I certainly have not put her on a pedestal. I do not buy her stuff, and I do not watch tv. She provides no entertainment for me.



stampinlady -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 7:52:10 PM)

quote:

If a teacher or a pastor or just Joe Shmow had that photo on his web page, some one would be charging him with internet kiddie porn. Where are the Christians who are canceling their subscription to the magazine? Where is the local police department?


Dh brought this up at dinner. If he were a photographer and took a picture of our dd in the same pose, showed it to his friends, someone would have called the cops and he'd be in jail. At first I had no problem with the photo, but after thinking it through it really is wrong. I seem to remember another young lady who did this in the 80's and her career took off. Anyone remember Brooke Shields???



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 9:00:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sjd2008

I just can't figure out what sin she committed exactly. She posed with a bare back. She wasn't nude! She wasn't caught having illicit sex, or with drugs or alcohol. Now, do I think the photos are appropriate for a 15 year old? No. Other than having some poor judgment I'm not so sure that she did anything sinful.


The bible speaks of being of modest dress, and it's not a suggestion... As well it says that which is not done in faith is a sin...

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.



quote:


Now, if she did commit a sin, that is between her and God. God is her judge, not us.



The person in question claims Christ so it's fair to judge her actions in acccordance with her claim... Eternal judgment is God's, but there is a place for Christian to judge one another for the sake of the body in the temporal sense...

quote:

She is a performer and an entertainer. Anyone who looks to another human as a role model is somewhat flirting with idolatry.


God's people are to be examples of Christ... We are to live our lives in such a manner that people would desire to emulate us, both Christian and non-Christian.

quote:


We are supposed to keep our focus on Christ, not on a 15 year old singer. IMHO, she has nothing to redress with us, she may have something to talk to God about.


As a professed member of the body of Christ one does have to answer to the body as a whole for their actions to some degree. With membership comes responsibility, right?

John



gaylel1 -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (4/30/2008 10:03:31 PM)

I'm not trying to throw stones or being critical, but Christians are taking a non-chanlant attitude about this because we are not outraged enough. Yes, we should pray for her parents and well we should, but on the other hand, a lot of girls and especially Christians look up to her because she profess her faith in Christ.


Those who profess their faith in Christ does not do things like this to weaken their walk. Miley did and now she and her parents have to go before God, like many of us will have to too.



csl7037 -> RE: Should Christian Entertainers Have High Moral Standards? (RE: Miley Cyrus and Others) (5/1/2008 5:57:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
The bible speaks of being of modest dress, and it's not a suggestion...
quote:



She has talked about this herself many times and she very much makes it a point to be an example of modesty for her young fans. And except for this one weird thing, I think she does a very good job in this area. This was obviously a mistake and the photos became something that they didn't expect them to be and are being portrayed in a way they didn't realize they would be. It's just a lapse in judgement and we're making more of it than it should've been.



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