RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat

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solo_soprano22 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:54:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair C-sections DO cause irreperable harm and she may be chasing after a flat stomach that she will NEVER be able to have again. Lipo won't cure the muscle damage done in surgery. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. She knows that but she's still trying to find the illusive flat stomach. That sis (as opposed to my other one) is concerned with her looks a little much. She has the anti-wrinkle cream... the hair conditioners that cost hundreds of dollars... personal trainers and meal plans... face treatments that cost hundreds a pop... and on and on and on. Her stomach will probably bother her forever, but I don't think there's a thing she can do about it. I just let her go on, cause if her stomach ain't right, nothing will ever be right (in her mind). You can't say anything to make her see otherwise. [&:]

Jenny-Fair -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 6:58:21 PM)
How sad.

agapetos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 7:02:56 PM)
quote: oh and you save money from going to the doctors. granted that money goes to more expensive food(meat/fish), and to the gym, but thats still way less money than going to doctors, staying in the hospital maybe for months which can take you out of your job and your family may depend on them. But it doesn't cost me anything to go to my doctor... quote: From what I've read untreated hypothyroidism causes a cascade of illnesses because the other hormones and organs go into overdrive to compensate. Untreated hypothyroidism can put you into a coma if it's left untreated for too long... Hypothyroidism can also be caused by some medications (it probably was in my case)... quote: When thyroid function is poor, usually due to a diet high in sugar and low in usable iodine, fat-soluble vitamins and other nutrients, the body floods the blood with cholesterol to heal tissues and produce protective steroids. Perhaps the rise in these symptoms goes back to all the "experts" deciding that a high carbohydrate, low fat diet was healthier. Remember carbohydrates are simply sugar when broken down to their basic chemical structure. Fat soluble vitamins are found in in fatty foods and iodine absorption can be disrupted by too much soy, broccoli and cabbage. Unfermented soy isn't a good thing and it's been dumped into many processed foods. I have never read that carbs play a part in having hypothyroidism. There are foods that can impede the uptake of iodine, but these have to be taken in very large quantities. Iodine deficiency is fairly rare in the developed world. quote: Metabolism is the krux of the issue for women, especially as we age. And how do we keep the metabolism going? Say it with me now...Lift Weights! Any exercise, not just lifting weights will increase metabolism (and I'm not talking a slow stroll round the garden ~ though again, something is better than nothing). I had a gym instructor who had a really flat abdomen ~ she lifted light weights 1x a week. The rest of her classes were combat and tai chi-style. Yoga, pilates, tai chi may seem like a 'soft' option, but they can be very tiring if done correctly (because you are working the muscles. There was a chap who used to come who'd been in the army for 30+ years and was incredibly stiff. He always did as much as he could, but you just had to look at him to know how difficult even the simplest positions were. As time went on though, it was incredible to see him become more and more flexible.

csl7037 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 7:57:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: agapetos Any exercise, not just lifting weights will increase metabolism (and I'm not talking a slow stroll round the garden ~ though again, something is better than nothing). I had a gym instructor who had a really flat abdomen ~ she lifted light weights 1x a week. The rest of her classes were combat and tai chi-style. Yoga, pilates, tai chi may seem like a 'soft' option, but they can be very tiring if done correctly (because you are working the muscles. There was a chap who used to come who'd been in the army for 30+ years and was incredibly stiff. He always did as much as he could, but you just had to look at him to know how difficult even the simplest positions were. As time went on though, it was incredible to see him become more and more flexible. Other exercise will increase heart rate but not necessarily metabolism. Andmost exercise will build a bit of muscle but not enough to significantly impact metabolism. Muscle mass is what increases metaboism. I'm a yoga instructor as well and I think it's also absolutely vital as we age to maintain that flexibility! (It wont do a tremendous amount for losing fat, though.) We just have to be proactive. Time is not the enemy as we age - it's our bad habit and lack of motivation.

agapetos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 8:15:56 PM)
quote: (It wont do a tremendous amount for losing fat, though.) It will tone many people up though ~ which is something many need. Unless it hurts us, there are no 'most important' types of exercise that we should be doing. We should find the exercise (whatever it may be) and do it, regularly enough to benefit us, and to the best of our ability. Finding that exercise can be difficult though and we are sometimes required to think outside of the box, but most can find something. Found this interesting... though it doesn't seem a particularly new theory to me.... quote: No amount of dieting will alter the number of fat-hoarding cells in our bodies, research has suggested. Scientists at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden say that the number is set during adolescence and stays the same, regardless of obesity later in life From here. It's not the number of fat cells we have in our body, it's how big they are!

solo_soprano22 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 8:18:44 PM)
Yeah, I always thought (and have been taught) that fat cells themselves didn't multiply or decrease...just the amount of fat itself. I missed some posts but I have to study; I'll catch up later.

ta_mosquito -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 8:45:47 PM)
I heard that, too. But I've also heard that if your fat cells get TOO big, they WILL reproduce... and you can't get rid of the new ones, either. I wish I had a link to that info.

csl7037 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 9:05:15 PM)
quote: Unless it hurts us, there are no 'most important' types of exercise that we should be doing. We should find the exercise (whatever it may be) and do it, regularly enough to benefit us, and to the best of our ability. Finding that exercise can be difficult though and we are sometimes required to think outside of the box, but most can find something. It's important to find something you enjoy or you wont stick with it. But women need to be doing weight-bearing exercise! Too many women are too cardio focused thinking it'll make them thinner or they're afraid to get "bulky" by lifting weights. It's all misinformation. But to maintain bone density as we age, weight bearing exercise is critical and too often overlooked or even avoided. It's kinda a soapbox of mine because I come from a long line of frail, brittle women and have no intention of ending up like that.

StephK -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/4/2008 9:46:13 PM)
quote: I have never read that carbs play a part in having hypothyroidism. It wasn't the carbs so much as the lack of fat in the diet. Low fat diets are often deficient of fat soluble vitamins which was mentioned as part of the problem in triggering hypothyroidism.

Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 6:24:42 AM)
quote: you can eat a healthy diet of proteins/carbs/fats/whole grains without eating meat...and actually I tend to lose weight more easily when I don't eat meat (or rather when I didn't....now I am pregnant and crave meat again...I tend to hate it with the girls and like it again with the boys). I don't know why you think that meat itself is what causes muscles on you, but it's simply not true. I have muscular legs because that's how God made me....and that didn't change when I was a vegetarian. Neither did my bone structure. well i guess it depends on what you mean by really muscular. a girl could mean anything by that [8D] but honestly ask Noshow or christianiron.com who are powerlifters. its hard without meat or fish to actually make decently quick muscle quote: Well, it's true, lol. I would not be healthy at less than 150. I have a lot of muscle, and very thick bones--for instance, I have to wear extra-large gloves to fit the width of my hands (which do not carry any excess fat!) but the fingers are always an inch too long, at the least. My firstborn has to wear extra large gloves to fig the length of his hands/fingers but they are too roomy the other direction. He has his dad's bone structure, not mine. I usually cannot wear storebought bracelets because my wrists are too thick--and they aren't chubby! When I wrap my right hand around my left wrist there is a large gap because I cannot reach. My feet are wide with a very high instep, and my hips--the bones themselves--are large and roomy. My knees are wide, my ankles are wide, my shoulders are wide...it's the way I am, and at 125 lbs I would be skin and bones, which is not healthy. I don't mind being sturdily-built. It has served me well I am strong, I birth babies well, and I only can wish it hadn't taken me thirty years to realize that the socially acceptable figure type simply isn't realistic for most women, and that there is nothing wrong with MY figure. true. the socially accepted figures of superskinny are awful anyway. if you were born a few hundred years ago you could have become an amazon. how cool is that? quote: I've always had "thunder thighs" and wonder if it's from cheerleading in HS and just overdeveloping those "jumping muscles". a jump forward has most to do with hips. a jump upward with calves. didnt you ever get to see that dan john video that lasts about 50 minuets on google from tnation? people always throw that in there for squats or deadlifts quote: My diet was not even close to "clean" and I was just building muscle under fat basically. the first couple months you make gains almost no matter what you do. and eating clean isnt necessary.. just.. you'll get more fat that way along with the muscle quote: t's really actually quite difficult for women to build significant muscle and it not also be covered in a good layer of fat without serious training and a near perfect diet true. just pretend you are pregnant and then cut down to lose the fat. quote: Metabolism is the krux of the issue for women, especially as we age. And how do we keep the metabolism going? Say it with me now...Lift Weights! Lots of weights, heavy weights. Osteoporosis and the middle aged "spread" are just the first two pitfalls of aging for women. We lose muscle definition, metabolism crashes, weight packs on, bone density diminishes, we get fatter, we get brittle, we get slower, we get OLD! Not happening here! There's just so much bad bad info out there. Women desperately need to be lifting weights - real weights. Put down the 5#'ers and get serious. We have to protect the bones and maintain the metabolism or it's all downhill from there! lifting weights alone isnt enough. in a cut down on calories you will get the metabolism down anyway. not going to the bathroom often, not digesting fast, not being hungry all the time are signs. you need to eat above maintenance.. every 4-5 days for women. the other 3-4 days you can weightlift and do cardio if you are still not losing fast enough. but on that above maintenance day you should do almost nothing so the calorie needs of that day are low and you get to rest and heal with those extra calories and weightlifting does actually help with your bones too. in real heavy weight exercizes (barbell stuff) the barbell either is on your back or chest meaning the load rests on your spine, or hangs from your shoulders/arms. slowly this has the same effect as in shaolin monks where they make others punch them on purpose to make their bones harder to break. the bones react very similarly to muscles. if you break them a bit they will overcompensate eventually and build more bone or harder bone. and when you bulk up you can drink lots of milk. that helps against osteoporosis. quote: They make you do it when your muscles scream that they don't want to anymore!!! its better to lift when they CANT anymore. except for your back. thats the only muscle im ever afraid of training too much.

Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 6:30:33 AM)
quote: Any exercise, not just lifting weights will increase metabolism (and I'm not talking a slow stroll round the garden ~ though again, something is better than nothing). nowhere near as much as lifting weights. especially heavy weights in heavy compound exercizes. heck if you can do the sets with few seconds inbetween tahts the ideal but that just doesnt happen that easily. the muscles need to learn stamina too.. quote: I had a gym instructor who had a really flat abdomen ~ she lifted light weights 1x a week. The rest of her classes were combat and tai chi-style. Yoga, pilates, tai chi may seem like a 'soft' option, but they can be very tiring if done correctly (because you are working the muscles. There was a chap who used to come who'd been in the army for 30+ years and was incredibly stiff. He always did as much as he could, but you just had to look at him to know how difficult even the simplest positions were. As time went on though, it was incredible to see him become more and more flexible. flat abdomen is nothing but a low body fat percentage. as for the classes they can only go so far. to build any strength the only definite thing is when you can lift for the same weight more reps before going to failure, or lifting MORE weight. in such classes you almost never ever reach muscle failure. you may have progress but its not even 1/10 of the progress you'd have with weight training. and it will only get you so far. you will plateau at some point. thats why you dont see karate masters being able to lift anywhere near as much weight as weightlifters. actually you never see them lifting weights anyway. as for getting muscle instead of strength, its the same as above, except you need to eat lots too. mostly protein. quote: they're afraid to get "bulky" by lifting weights. i'd question most woman for a start whether they can even dare to make one set to failure for a start. much less get bulky.... getting bulky takes forever. and getting vein-popping-out bulky will only happen if you are a bodybuilder. look at olympic weightlifting women and you'll see they are nowhere near all that "bulky". they have big legs yet they can lift their husbands above their head. hahah

NoShow -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 10:32:41 AM)
The way I look at it, is simply, every year I just aim to be (a little) healthier than last year. That can mean eat a little cleaner, lose a little fat, gain or maintain some muscle, bump up my cardio or flexibility... I don't set any "benchmark\goal" of what is fit (okay, maybe some pie in the sky, ultimate fitness, but that's simply to know what "direction" I'm heading), rather it's a lifestyle for me. Sure I look around and see a lot of people that are self-induced fat\obese\unhealthy (and I'm in Southern California and even though we have our share, I know it's a lot worse in other areas), but I'm also realistic enough to know that they're not all going to change overnight or this year. If asked, I simply encourage them to try to be a bit healthier this year, than they were last year. As for body-types, a good friend of my wife, "looks" fat. She's probably around 5'3"-5'4" and is "big boned" and in regular clothes, most probably think she's fat. But she's not. I've seen her in a bathing suit and she's not carrying extra bodyfat and she recently ran in another marathon. I also know for a fact that the modern medicine is "contributing" it's share to the problem. I know dozens of people that have been put on prednisone for a variety of (different) things. And one of the most common side effects is weight gain. Some of these people have been normal\thin all of their life and all of a sudden in their 30's, 40's have experienced excessive weight gain. They're eating the same as always, but just seem to only gain more weight. So they go from normal to fat. Well there's no way, I'm going to tell these people they just need to watch what they eat or they need to exercise more. Because I realize that there's underlying factors. No, I don't think that every fat\obese\unhealthy person got that way from prednisone. Yes, I believe that most of them got that way from diet and lifestyle decisions. But I also think that the number of people that didn't get that way from diet and lifestyle choices is a larger number than many people think. Most of those "studies" screen the participants, so all the people with "medical" factors, automatically get excluded from the studies. I have 30 plus years of learning and experience in "fitness". I've gone from being around people that chased after improvement (getting fitter, bigger and\or getting stronger) to being around people that are battling to maintain some level of fitness as they go up against "aging". I'm sure the Lord blessed me with that (talents), so I can help some of his other children. If someone asks for my help, I try to encourage them to make a simple change or two today. Then tomorrow, next week\month\year, they can make one or two more. Often, that's not what they want, they often want instant gratification, so don't listen to what I say. Unfortunately, I can't help them with that (I don't think anyone can). Sometimes they come back to me, other times they never do, rather they try everything new under the sun. I do what I can for myself and I do what I can for others.

Kat_D -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 10:39:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: csl7037 quote: ORIGINAL: Kat_D The "You can never be too thin" mentality of this nation is why we have thousands upon thousands of people with severe eating disorders. For many, the eating disorder started with a diet to lose a few pounds and ends up taking complete control of the dieter's life and making them very, very sick. There isn't a "you can never be too thin" mentality in this country. We have a blame somebody else or "at least I'm not as bad as that person" mentality, if anything. The days of Twiggie and Calista Flockharts bones protruding in tabloid photos are in the past. Those photos are the gross examples now and way out of fashion. The "fashion" or ideal now is the Jessica Alba or Angelina Jolie type and those ladies certainly don't starve themselves. The eat pretty much a perfect diet, I'm sure and they work very very hard to keep that shape. Oh, you mean the ideal is now like this?... Angelina Jolie Jessica Alba Yes indeedy, I can see we've come a long, long way from the days of Twiggy and Calista Flockhart...oh, what a dramatic difference![8D]

Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 11:17:38 AM)
either way the ideal in most minds of girls .. even guys is to be way slim.. and in guys to have aBSZZzZ!! and BiceptSZZ!! LOL! personally i think you should all think whats attractive according to nature. in the end thats what we truly find attractive because thats the way our genes are made. the only difference today is that there is a lot of "fake" things, especially for women. make up, different and complicated hairstyles or hair dye, shaving etc. out of all of these the only one i cant stand is shaving [8D] anyway thats kinda irrelevant. the important thing is to FIRST look to nature for whats attractive, and then to what society deems as attractive. i mean, cmon.. a bone skinny woman is just gross. i think that if i touch her she will break to pieces

peculiar_lady2 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 12:49:26 PM)
quote: either way the ideal in most minds of girls .. even guys is to be way slim.. and in guys to have aBSZZzZ!! and BiceptSZZ!! LOL! well, I can't say for guys, but when "girls" grow up and become "women" they tend to change their thinking a bit and realize that reality is what it is. Women have curves...women carry babies and that changes their body shape and many other things. As far as what men find attractive in women, I can speak for my husband on that one...he loves me for me...he loves the parts of my body that I hate...and he has said many times that he would not have been attracted to me if I had been skinny like my SIL (who thinks a size 1 is too big). He said he feels like when he hugs her that he is going to break her, and he doesn't like that. He likes and loves ME and MY body. So no, not all men or women fit into your little box of what YOU might think "ideal" is.

Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 12:54:11 PM)
er what? i said the ideal in most minds of girls and guys? where the heck did you get thats the ideal in my mind? if anything you are more prone to that ideal than me if you have body parts of you taht you hate. i dont hate my belly at all... quote: when "girls" grow up and become "women" they tend to change their thinking a bit and realize that reality is what it is. actually i think most women think the same, maybe a bit different but its still more or less the same if they get so upset about gaining 2 pounds and so happy about losing 2 pounds. ive seen lots of old women doing crazy stuff that you'd think only teenager cheerleaders would do

peculiar_lady2 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 1:13:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Konstantinos er what? i said the ideal in most minds of girls and guys? where the heck did you get thats the ideal in my mind? if anything you are more prone to that ideal than me if you have body parts of you taht you hate. i dont hate my belly at all... quote: when "girls" grow up and become "women" they tend to change their thinking a bit and realize that reality is what it is. actually i think most women think the same, maybe a bit different but its still more or less the same if they get so upset about gaining 2 pounds and so happy about losing 2 pounds. ive seen lots of old women doing crazy stuff that you'd think only teenager cheerleaders would do age has nothing to do with growing up....and part of "growing up" is realizing what reality is and accepting it for what it is. where do I get that it's the ideal in your mind? by your posts....you keep saying that it's the ideal over and over again, going back to that wording...so you must believe that it is your idea of "ideal" BTW...I don't have body parts that I "hate"...I have things about my body that I would not choose, but looking at the faces of my four (soon to be five) kids makes me realize that they are all worth everything my body has gone through to get them here.

Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 1:31:55 PM)
quote: he loves the parts of my body that I hate... its what you said... quote: age has nothing to do with growing up....and part of "growing up" is realizing what reality is and accepting it for what it is. agreed quote: where do I get that it's the ideal in your mind? by your posts....you keep saying that it's the ideal over and over again, going back to that wording...so you must believe that it is your idea of "ideal" find me ONE post where i said that the ideal in MY mind not in society's is a skinny woman.

solo_soprano22 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 1:33:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2 age has nothing to do with growing up....and part of "growing up" is realizing what reality is and accepting it for what it is. where do I get that it's the ideal in your mind? by your posts....you keep saying that it's the ideal over and over again, going back to that wording...so you must believe that it is your idea of "ideal" BTW...I don't have body parts that I "hate"...I have things about my body that I would not choose, but looking at the faces of my four (soon to be five) kids makes me realize that they are all worth everything my body has gone through to get them here. [sm=thumbsup.gif]

csl7037 -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 1:43:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kat_D Oh, you mean the ideal is now like this?... Angelina Jolie Jessica Alba Yes indeedy, I can see we've come a long, long way from the days of Twiggy and Calista Flockhart...oh, what a dramatic difference![8D] I can't tell much from those, and tabloids get weird stuff I can't put much stock in. But I've seen them both look great - Jolie in Tombraider. The image I'm talking about is something like this. That's hard work and not something I'd ever worry over my dd aspiring to.

Quipper -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 3:20:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kat_D Threads like this one are not productive and usually just end up hurting people! I disagree (obviously, or I wouldn't have started it). When people are civil, discussions like this can be extremely beneficial; I think this thread has already been productive in multiple ways. To address the point of 'hurt' potentially arising, I think we must all admit that the truth does often hurt. Speaking as a professional psychotherapist and as a pastor, I've seen that hurt--when encountered in a constructive context--is not always something to be shunned. The good hurt that can come from owning up to difficult realities can and often does facilitate growth.

Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 3:43:35 PM)
quote: To address the point of 'hurt' potentially arising, I think we must all admit that the truth does often hurt. Speaking as a professional psychotherapist and as a pastor, I've seen that hurt--when encountered in a constructive context--is not always something to be shunned. The good hurt that can come from owning up to difficult realities can and often does facilitate growth. i think hurt helping varies. if you have your hand on the stove it hurts, you will take it off the stove. thats.. good for your body obviously. likewise getting hurt can make you see a need to change either mentally so you dont get hurt anymore or actually solve the problem itself. imo we do the things we do either out of love(what we like) or out of need. getting hurt usually makes you do things out of need. its not the best idea though when it comes to your body. you should make a change to your body because you wanna, not because you have to. if you make the change because you have to you'll still be hurt(for example because people like you more now than they did in the past, making you feel like their love which should be unconditional... is conditional. which may be true or may not be true. either way one will feel less loved for themselves, and more loved for their bodies. if its true that its unconditional you should try to ignore the feeling not as loved, if its true you should confront them ro something shrugs, point being dont give in to feelings alone for a conclusion and dont listen to them when they are wrong)

womaninchrist -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 6:10:36 PM)
The problem with hurt in threads like this is that threads like this are often full of untrue accusations or of accusations of presumed sins. Stuff like " you don't match my standards for thin, therefore you must gorge yourself constantly on junkfood and have the activity level of a sloth" (maybe not said quite that badly, but frequently only half a shade more kindly).

agapetos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 6:24:48 PM)
quote: if you have your hand on the stove it hurts, you will take it off the stove. thats.. good for your body obviously. likewise getting hurt can make you see a need to change either mentally so you dont get hurt anymore or actually solve the problem itself. The problem with this is that while you may see the need to change, you don't always have the tools to start changing. We can figure out that putting our hands on a hot stove is the reason our hands hurt. We can't always figure out what we should do to help ourselves when it comes to our mental health.

Konstantinos -> RE: New Research: No Such Thing as Fit AND Fat (5/5/2008 8:47:28 PM)
true.

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