Boundaries of respect and courtesy (Full Version)

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Sunnymom -> Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 2:44:51 PM)

I am feeling really bad today about the situation with my inlaws. Nothing has really changed in 22 years, but we thought it had, and so the disappointment is really painful. We even encouraged them to move up here near us so that they could be a part of our lives.

The whole drama can be condensed into a few words- my dh's parents do not respect any views other than their own. They give lip service to supporting our Christian lifestyle and parenting choices, but when it comes down to it, they do whatever they please, in spite of the fact that they too are Christians.

We are not perfect and haven't claimed to be. We have apologized and compromised from Day One in this relationship. But when kids come along, and the GPs want to have an influential role in the lives of their grandchildren, the dynamic changes. Big Time.

I am just so grieved at heart. The chasm seems unbridgeable. We can't trust them, and they don't understand why we are making such a 'big deal' over things- which is funny because the current kerfuffle (which started last October) is because they sicced the whole family on us after we decided not to allow dh's little sister (who is 34, married, with 3 kids) to come to our house to visit me and the kids while they were in town during Thanksgiving. Sil claims to be a Christian but lives a very immoral life and has spread vicious rumors about our family and me personally (the final feather was when she told several people that I abused my children and she was considering calling CPS on me). There were literally family members who called and SCREAMED at dh on the phone, ( I could hear across the room) while others passed on the message that they were never speaking to him again. It didn't seem to matter to them that threats had been made against our family. Her conduct was excused while ours was condemned. Weird.

The GPs came over a few weeks later and apologized for overreacting, but their behavior didn't change- it actually got worse and they involved my 9 yod, and their response was "Oops" and "What's the big deal?" and "You think you're better than everyone else" and "We're sorry we don't live up to your standards" and I could go on but you get the picture. We also found out that the bandsaw my dh let them borrow last fall was put outside and allowed to rust all winter. They have told us and people we know that we treat them horribly, that they have 'done so much for us' and we are so ungrateful. That we are mentally unstable. That we use our Christianity as an excuse to be hateful to people, and that basically we made up the whole conflict.

I can't see how we can reconcile. We may be able to call a truce, but they can't interact with the kids without supervision. We can't go over there because I am deathly allergic to mil's three cats (which is another reason she is upset with me). She stopped by this morning unannounced to bring dd some craft projects they had started, and gave her a card, but didn't bring anything for the boys (which has also been an issue- them favoring our dd and ignoring our sons). I knew that no matter what I did, I was screwed, so I invited her in and made her a cup of tea and we chatted like nothing happened, and she hinted several times that they were going to move. I didn't take the bait, and quite frankly I hope they do move. I don't want them in our kids' lives if they don't have enough decency to put young children in their formative years first when it comes to our relationship.

It is never easy when kids are involved, and I don't even have to explain it to them because they know exactly what has happened, having been in the middle of it. My oldest doesn't really miss them at all, since they ignored him completely, and he is old enough to know that how they have behaved is wrong. Dd has a hard time, because they took her out and bought her things and treated her very special, and of course she misses it- she's nine. She was so excited to see GM today, and it brought all the hurt back for her, and I feel like [X(]- but what can I do? The youngest boy is so go-with-the-flow I don't know if much of this has even registered with him. [8|]

Thanks for listening while I unload. I tried to condense 20+ years worth of issues into a readable post. I really wish things had happened differently, but like I said- this has been their MO since I met them- vindictive, backbiting, disrespectful, manipulative..... it's hard to see their good side anymore, and I am sure they have one.[&o]



LaurainAL -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 2:49:12 PM)

Hugs to you Sunnymom. I don't have any real advice on how to deal with your in-laws except to guard your heart that you do not become bitter. Don't let them rent space in your head. Live your life and love them anyway.



Sideways -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 2:53:11 PM)

I'm terribly sorry for your pain, Sunnymom. Sometimes it seems like children either bring the adult child and parent closer together or drive them farther apart. I'm starting to learn that myself, and my in-laws are actually pretty decent folks.

I hope you can release them into the hands of God, and move on without anger or pain. I'm sure it won't be easy for you, but with God's grace you can.



Sunnymom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 3:01:49 PM)

Well, I think most people can tolerate being hurt more than they can tolerate it when someone hurts the ones they love. My dh is very bothered- angry, sad, weary- and my kids are sad too. I hate the chaos they brought into our lives, and the harm they are doing to our testimony. They aren't even thinking about the fact that we minister in this area, and have lost relatives that we have witnessed to for years who will now not listen to us, and we do business with many people around here, both saved and lost, and our reputation is not something to just mess around with because you're ticked off, KWIM?

I am angrier for the others they are hurting than for myself exactly. Hey- they have called me names and cussed me out for years, and I couldn't care less. But hurt my dh and my kids- I'm gettin' out the woodchipper!



PrincessDonna -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 4:41:34 PM)

((((((Sunny)))))) I hear ya. I have no advice other than to give it to God, but I hear ya.



shadowspring -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 5:02:40 PM)

((((((Sunnymom)))))))

I have no advice for you either, but a lot of sympathy!

Good for you that you refused to "take the bait" in your last conversation with your mother-in-law. May the Lord give you the grace to keep taking the high road.

Some people just don't care who they hurt, and I don't suppose there is any way to get a thoughtless, self-centered person to grow up any faster. Especially if they are older than you to start with! [;)]



stellaluna -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 5:46:26 PM)

Stop answering the phone. And the door if they come over.



Sunnymom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 6:27:38 PM)

They don't call anymore, and I blocked her emails. It would make things worse if I didn't answer the door, though.

I know there isn't really any advice anyone can give me. If they were reasonable people, we could reason with them. For instance, after we had told them that we weren't having the sil over for a visit because of the threats and rumors, my dd was over at the GPs and the sil called. My mil put my dd on the phone with the sil. Then she told my dd not to tell us because we would be mad. My dd told me about it, and she was crying because she thought that her GM was going to be mad at her for telling a secret, but dd knows she isn't allowed to keep secrets from mom and dad. When we told mil that we didn't appreciate her doing that, her response was that all they talked about on the phone was making salad, and that she hadn't told dd not to tell us, but had said that if she did tell us, we'd be mad. Hello?[&:]

IMO, playing manipulative mind games with little 9 yo girls is sick and twisted, but that is one opinion I have kept to myself so far in all of this. I just feel so bad because I am an optimist at heart, and nothing frustrates me more than feeling as if there is no possibility of reconciliation.

I have hoped for years that we'd be able to have a nice relationship with them, and I really thought we were there after a family reunion that we hosted for them. It was a BIG DEAL, let me tell ya- 40 relatives from all over, and some of them enjoying being jerks by bringing alcohol and smoking around the kids and not wearing enough clothes to cover a mosquito. But hey- we made it the best day we possibly could for everyone. But there hasn't been a time when dh's relatives didn't, for whatever reason, attack my character for something. They lectured me about not doing Santa, they told me (back when my dh was backslidden) it was my fault that my dh went out drinking at night because I wouldn't let him keep beer in the fridge at home, that our marriage was on the rocks because I was trying to force him to become a preacher, that I was a (insert very bad name here) for not co-signing a lease for a relative... and all this as if my dh didn't have a say in anything? My mil's favorite line is "I didn't raise my son like that".

When I met dh he was trying to get off drugs and alcohol. He had been sexually active all his teen years, and possibly has a child from a one-night stand. He barely graduated high school, and wouldn't have made it through college except that I tutored him. Yeah- I know exactly how he was raised. [;)]

So I have come to the point, and so has dh, that there is no way we can ever have a loving, healthy relationship with them. And after trying for so long, and thinking that it was going to happen, enough so that we opened our home to them.... I am just bummed, and it doesn't matter that we have done our best to do right by them. They have effectively cut off my dh from ALL of his family. NONE OF THEM will speak to him, including his two brothers and sister, uncles and aunts..... And then they wonder why we don't call. Can you believe she sent an email complaining that she didn't get an Easter card, when we haven't sent an Easter card to anyone in our entire lives?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?[:@]

Abbreviation reference: mil=mother-in-law, sil is sister-in-law, GP is grandparent, GM is Grandma



Sadey -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/29/2008 10:12:13 PM)

I feel so bad for you and what choice do you really have?

So to put this in perspective, would you let me a complete stranger come into your life and act like this? If not then why is it okay for your inlaws to do it? Does being a blood relative give you special priviledges to torment your family.

Its hard to give it up though isn't it? we always think if we could just find the right words we could reach them but hon, there aren't any right words. And finally realizing that is a big step in freeing yourself from all the crazy making. I personally wouldn't let my kids spend one second alone with people like this. And I sure wouldn't let them be around people who mistreated me. What kind of a message is that sending your children.

Just from the descprition of your daughter's behavior, it has already confused and upset her and what about the boys, just because they act like it doesn't matter doesn't mean they aren't harmed by the way grandma and grandpa treat them. So Mom, if you can't get out of this mess for yourself then please do it for your kids.

The trouble with crazy making is that you get used to it and it doesn't seem so crazy anymore. But once you break completely free, trust me, you will never let yourself be sucked back in.

Well enough of my ramblings and I hope and pray you can break free from these people.



Hislittleone -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 1:25:10 AM)

((((Sunnymom)))) I'm so sorry you are going through this. Our pastor just finished a series on toxic people, toxic churches and toxic relatives. Sounds like these are classic toxic relatives. He basically said that we need to cut the toxic relatives out before they have a chance to contaminate us with their poison. However, he did emphasize that cutting someone (esp. a relative) out of our lives is to be a last resort after every effort has been made. I don't see how you or your husband can do anymore to work things out with people like this. I mean, they are dangerous to your family. A sil who is claiming you abuse your kids and threatening to call cps. What if she'd followed through? Goodness. I don't have any advice but you have my sympathy and my prayers. My mom and I just had a huge fight and we are severely limiting contact for a time. So I can understand the thoughts and sadness over relationships that will never be what we want them to be. [&o]



Sunnymom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 6:47:36 AM)

Thanks for all your kind responses.

Sadey-for years their behavior didn't matter, as the kids were not exposed to them. The inlaws have always lived quite far away- Alaska, Florida, New Jersey- but 2 years ago they moved about 3 miles away from us, and that is when it got interesting.

Because it is my dh's parents, I have followed his leading, supporting his decisions on how to handle things. He has been very protective of me and the kids, which is a blessing, as some men won't stand up to their mama.[;)] I agree that we often tolerate behavior from 'family' that we would never tolerate from co-workers or neighbors, and especially not strangers, but we also want to go as far as we can in honoring our parents as God would have us do. We now have drawn the line, but it is true that "hope deferred maketh the heart sick".(Proverbs 13:12)

If we have erred, is has been in being too gracious, and I can live with that. This is a principle that we have been discussing with the kids- and I always go back to something a professor in college said to the class- "As a Christian, you may need to let people walk all over you, but you do not have to let them stop and wipe their feet". So that is where we are with the inlaws- they want to dominate our lives, and we aren't going to stand for that.

My main comfort (other than the Lord and my own family) is my church family. I feel as if my church family is more 'family' that the relatives, because we don't choose what biological family we are born into, but our church family is full of like-minded folks who are kind and supportive, and we choose each other freely. That really means something to me.



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 7:37:28 AM)

{{{Sunnymom}}}



Sadey -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 8:55:30 AM)

I'm so glad to hear that you have a loving church family. Isn't God wonderful, I've always believed that he provides through our church family what we can't get from our birth family.
I did want to apologize because I sounded like I was getting on to you and only meant to be your cheering section[8|]



stampinlady -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 9:16:06 AM)

quote:

I can't see how we can reconcile.


I know this is hard to do, but ..... can you sit down with them and lay down the law, so to speak? I don't believe every relationship can be reconciled and we can only do our part and forgive and forgive and forgive ..... .

Sunny, I've so appreciated your coments in the past and feel for you. We've had to deal with some issues(boundries, respect ) with my parents and sister and things have gotten better because I'm not doing life on their terms. I do what I can with them when I want to. I also choose to hold back alot of personal info from them now and try not to comment when they talk about others in the family. "I don't want to know!" is my new motto.[8D]



Sunnymom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 1:47:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

I can't see how we can reconcile.


I know this is hard to do, but ..... can you sit down with them and lay down the law, so to speak? I don't believe every relationship can be reconciled and we can only do our part and forgive and forgive and forgive ..... .

Sunny, I've so appreciated your coments in the past and feel for you. We've had to deal with some issues(boundries, respect ) with my parents and sister and things have gotten better because I'm not doing life on their terms. I do what I can with them when I want to. I also choose to hold back alot of personal info from them now and try not to comment when they talk about others in the family. "I don't want to know!" is my new motto.[8D]

We have done this in the past. Before they moved up here, we had a talk about respecting each other's beliefs and privacy. Basically, they say whatever you want to hear and then do whatever they please.

After the first big blow up about the sil, we asked them over to discuss the conflict, and mil said she was too emotional to talk about it, and wanted to just forgive and forget it ever happened. Because she acknowledged that she overreacted, we let it slide. But it was one week later that she pulled the stunt with my dd over the phone call to the sil.

When mil stopped by yesterday, it was more of the same. She came unannounced, when my dh wasn't home. I made her some hot tea, and she just looked at me and said "I need milk". She didn't ask about our family- just proceeded to drop one hint after another about how financially destitute they are (bull hockey) and how they were sprucing up the house to make it more valuable, and how she made sure that if she signed up for a particular phone service that she could get out of it if they moved. She gave my dd a card, but brought nothing for the boys. She griped about the bandsaw being next to the garage, and how if we didn't get it she was going to put it in the trash on Friday. Seems to me that if they didn't want it, they could have called us last winter and asked us to get it, instead of putting it outside to let it rust, and then complaining that we left our trash at their house.

I feel like yesterday she had a golden opportunity to reach out a bit, but it was just more self-absorbed drama. In this regard she has not changed in 22 years. I now believe that they didn't move here to be a blessing and a part of nurturing the kids, but to play the part of The Revered Grandparents, with us catering to their whims while they sat on their thrones and basked in the glow of our admiration. A bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point.

I don't believe we can reconcile because I don't believe we speak the same language. When they ask us why we do such-and-such, and we point out what we believe the Bible teaches about modesty or evil communications or purity, they say we are using the Bible as an excuse to be holier-than-thou, or they accuse us of preaching at them, or of trying to tell them how to live their lives. When we discuss any topic about which we do not agree, they say we are arrogant. My fil called me a know-it-all, so the next time he brought up a debate topic I just nodded and smiled. Then they got mad because I wasn't taking the bait. We can't reason with them because they are not reasonable people.

My dh is livid, because they target me and the kids. My mil has often said that my influence has changed him, and she doesn't mean for the better, in spite of the fact that he no longer drinks or does drugs, is a faithful husband and active in church. Her disappointment that we didn't teach the kids that Santa Claus was real was just unbelievable. She stomped her feet and said "I didn't raise my son not to believe in Santa Claus!" I said "Lady- HE'S 40!"[&:]

I feel like I am ranting again. I will probably feel like I am in limbo until this is Over. It's already over, but it isn't Over over. I don't like it when things are over but not Over. It makes me a bit crazy.[sm=rollingeyes.gif]



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 2:05:37 PM)

quote:

She stomped her feet and said "I didn't raise my son not to believe in Santa Claus!" I said "Lady- HE'S 40!"

Sounds like they came from Planet Make-Believe!

I am sorry you have to deal with this. What does DH want to do, as far as the future is concerned? Does he want to keep trying or does he want nothing to do with them?



bluestone -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 2:15:12 PM)

First, I don't trust people who put milk in tea. Lemon, yes , sugar, yes. Milk? no wa.

two words: electric fencing.



Sunnymom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 2:47:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

quote:

She stomped her feet and said "I didn't raise my son not to believe in Santa Claus!" I said "Lady- HE'S 40!"

Sounds like they came from Planet Make-Believe!

I am sorry you have to deal with this. What does DH want to do, as far as the future is concerned? Does he want to keep trying or does he want nothing to do with them?

Considering he grew up in NJ with a sort of Mafia mentality of blood being thicker than water, I was a bit worried at how he would handle this situation. But he believes it is necessary to break fellowship with them.

I have a friend who is friends with mil, and she has said that they have maintained their relationship by not talking about certain subjects. She has told me that in her opinion, mil and fil have serious spiritual issues, and that she tries to be a blessing, but their friendship is very superficial. I could do that if it was just my dh and I, but with kids involved, the whole picture is changed. We can't allow their influence, period.

I really do hope they move- then we can stay in touch with cards and letters, but not have the stress of expectations that come from living so close together.



Sunnymom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 2:50:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

First, I don't trust people who put milk in tea. Lemon, yes , sugar, yes. Milk? no wa.

two words: electric fencing.

I agree- milk is for Oreos. Period.

As for electric fencing- do I dunk her in water before I strap her to it and flip the switch?[8D]

Can you believe I live in one of those frou-frou neighborhoods that doesn't allow front yard fencing? Whodathunk?



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 2:50:53 PM)

You are blessed to have such a strong husband.



Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 3:16:12 PM)

Oh I am sorry that you have to deal with that. Personally I would seriously think about moving away and leave no fowarding information even if you just move an hour away. I know that is not always possible though.



Sunnymom -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 3:19:48 PM)

Oh no- if anybody moves it is going to be them. I have an 80 yo mother to care for, my dh has a wonderful job, we have a fabulous church, the library is 1.3 miles away, and besides- we were here first! [:D]



crankius -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 3:32:11 PM)

Sunnymom,

My husband and I also have very strong in-laws. He is their only son, and MIL is a powerful force. We definitely have had to be very firm about our boundaries. It has been very hard at times, and just like you have found, kids make it more difficult. We've had much of the same conflicts you are having.

I can try to encourage you, but I am confident nothing I say will be new to you--I know you are a woman who reads the Word daily and loves the Lord.

You are doing right to stick to what you know to be right for your family in honoring the Lord, and you are right to be graciously firm with the in-laws. Though you are not pleasing your in-laws, you know you can stand before God with a clear conscience.

Regarding all those who now think wrong of you: the Lord has a way of correcting a reputation when He desires it, and in the process He sometimes humbles those who illegitimately built resentments and grudges. He does it in His timing and for His glory. Later, someone will be struck with just how wrong their judgments were of you, and the Lord will use your gracious attitude as a pierce to the heart and even possibly as a way to better relationships--maybe even to help that person know Him. Rest and have confidence in the Lord, knowing it is His perspective that is all that matters in the end.

See--I told you I had nothing "new" to tell you. [8D] None of it is easy. I'm very glad you have a great church family!



stampinlady -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 8:03:56 PM)

quote:

We can't allow their influence, period.


Then if you and dh have prayed about it and are both convinced that this is best, break off all contact and do your best explain in to the kids. I've talked with my kids the best way I could about certain "family" issues and they seem to understand as much as they can. I always struggle with the whole "Honor your Father and Mother."[&:]



Jenny-Fair -> RE: Boundaries of respect and courtesy (4/30/2008 8:08:20 PM)

Bear with me here...this should make sense by the end, lol.

Sometimes doing the best thing for someone is not doing the nicest thing. If an alcoholic comes to you and wants beer money, are you being KIND by giving it to him? Or is it kinder to say no?

If Sunnymom's in-laws are behaving in a way that will influence children for worse, aren't Sunny and Mr. Sunny doing the most honoring thing for his parents by preventing them from sinning? The Bible says some very strong things about adults who cause children to sin. If these people repent, that is wonderful, and they will have less sin weighing on them.



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