Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (Full Version)

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zondie -> Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/29/2008 7:41:56 PM)

I have a friend who posted this on another site. I know what my views are on this subject, but would like to get some of yours.

Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint?


Israel fell into repeated periods of downright evil.....as a nation. Individual evil was so pervasive that good was exchanged for evil and that individual culpability transformed into CORPORATE culpability because of its pervasiveness. As a result, God purified Israel. God "condemned" Israel to a punishment. They wandered 40 years in the desert until they, as a nation, were purified through the death of all the unfaithful that basically slapped God in the face through CORPORATE disobedience. Israel was later "condemned" to exile. God said, through the prophet Isaiah, that He would "purge away [Israel's] dross and all her [impurities] (Isaiah 1:25). This is indicative of a refiner's fire (another symbol of purging).

I don't agree with Jeremiah Wright's (Obama's pastor), theology for the most part and I don't agree with some of the conclusions he has come to regarding the death penalty and with war. However, a truly righteous man of God could easily have the same reaction on the pulpit to the CORPORATE evil tolerated by America--not as individuals but as a nation. America, as a nation (corporately), has exchanged good for evil. This nation has created laws and has established a system where judges can make laws from the bench which empower social institutions to not only remove God to the point where His name is offensive unless it's used as a curse word. Need I go on about abortion, acceptance and promotion of homosexuality over heterosexuality to the point where it is the superior of the two, and the promotion of "alternative religion" in public life while simultaneously suppressing Christianity in public life. These are not evils promoted by individuals. These are CORPORATE evils for which the nation, as a whole, is culpable. There are plenty of people who do not engage or participate in these corporate evils. However, God did not spare Sodom and Gomorrah for the sake of a few. He purged the earth of them.

Therefore, is it wrong for someone (not necessarily Jeremiah Wright) to call for the "damning" of America if it means this nation would be subjected to the "Refiner's Fire"? Is it so wrong to call for the kind of purification that can only come through that kind of purification?



earthless -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/29/2008 7:46:16 PM)

Do not know how much like this thread is going to have we the moderators have designated a one stop thread for Rev. Wright's beliefs (black liberation theology).

His teachings are racist, destructive, divisive, and dangerous.



bsjones84 -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/29/2008 8:04:38 PM)

I don't know all of Jeremiah Wright's theology and teachings; however, proposing that America will be damned due to pervasive wickedness is very biblical. The bible says the nation that forgets about God will be turned into hell. Abraham Lincoln shared similar thoughts during the War Between the States. I don't remember where or when exactly it was, but I remember reading an excerpt of something he wrote in which he was asking, or suggesting that the war was the result of the degeneration of moral values in America.



earthless -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/29/2008 8:12:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bsjones84

I don't know all of Jeremiah Wright's theology and teachings; however, proposing that America will be damned due to pervasive wickedness is very biblical. The bible says the nation that forgets about God will be turned into hell. Abraham Lincoln shared similar thoughts during the War Between the States. I don't remember where or when exactly it was, but I remember reading an excerpt of something he wrote in which he was asking, or suggesting that the war was the result of the degeneration of moral values in America.


If that were the sole extent of what Wright preaches, there would have been little to no uproar. But that is not even 2% of what his problems are.



bob97 -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/29/2008 9:00:29 PM)

quote:

I don't know all of Jeremiah Wright's theology and teachings; however, proposing that America will be damned due to pervasive wickedness is very biblical.


Are we less a Christian nation than we were 100 years ago and If you think we are, do you have any supporting data that would prove this point or is it just your opinion?

Bob



CropDuster -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/29/2008 9:06:33 PM)

The Bible is so immense and universal by design, as a 'balanced' religious authority and messge, Wright's theology could be easily justified and/or condemned from a Biblical perspective. There could never be a standard, uniform, Biblical judgment on Wright's statements, or anything else for that matter. The Bible cannot be interpretted literally, in the context of reason and consistency. IMO, it's a moral guide and source of tremendous inspiration. Nonetheless, it's neither history nor science nor simple law.



zondie -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/30/2008 4:35:45 PM)

quote:

bob97
Are we less a Christian nation than we were 100 years ago


Actually, I think we are! Considering what society has accepted into the public. Don't you? (IMO only.)



GrahamCracker -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/30/2008 5:55:34 PM)

quote:

...remove God to the point where His name is offensive unless it's used as a curse word. Need I go on about abortion, acceptance and promotion of homosexuality over heterosexuality to the point where it is the superior of the two, and the promotion of "alternative religion" in public life while simultaneously suppressing Christianity in public life...

Therefore, is it wrong for someone (not necessarily Jeremiah Wright) to call for the "damning" of America if it means this nation would be subjected to the "Refiner's Fire"? Is it so wrong to call for the kind of purification that can only come through that kind of purification?


America as a whole is certainly unrighteous for condoning homosexuality and abortion. But that is not the primary area where Jeremiah Wright faults America. I do not recall him ever mentioning those things. I could be wrong. Generally, he faults America for the institution of American slavery which ended 140 years ago. He faults America for the civil rights problems which came to a head in the 60s.

He seems to think those things are still going on and that American blacks (as a group) have been intentionally and selectively targeted by American white leadership.



Bluethread -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/30/2008 7:21:08 PM)

If I understand correctly this thread is not about Pastor Wright, but whether it is biblically justifyable to damn the USA.

CropDuster:

If as you say, "There could never be a standard, uniform, Biblical judgment on Wright's statements, or anything else for that matter", then nothing is biblically justified. "Judge not lest you be not judged." is applicable here. How can anyone rail on about the sins of our nation and yet refuse to be held accountable to the same standards. I personnally am willing to be held accountable by the standards I profess, therefore, I can speak. Otherwise we would all fall silent, but that would violate our responsibility to be watchmen on the wall warning of impending doom.

Regarding damning things, I do not believe I have that authority and I find doing that as an epithet to be counterproductive. All such statements do is get people worked up. It is much more useful to let ones yes be yes and no be no. That is, be specific about what one wishes to say and give reasoned justifications for those arguments. I think the most useful thing to sya when I burn dinner is "Dad Burn It!" and say "Oh ****!" only when I step in something appropriate in a cow pasture.



CropDuster -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/30/2008 7:26:44 PM)

I'm not defending Wright. To the contrary, I can't stand his statements. I think they're wrong, hateful and popularity-seeking on Wright's part. I just don't think the Bible is the standard by which to judge anyone. For every point made by the Bible, the Bible makes ten counterpoints. The Bible is a source for personal inspiration, not a standard for history, science or law.



colliefan -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/30/2008 9:10:35 PM)

His false teachings are best discussed in the thread devoted to BLT (and not the sandwich)



CropDuster -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (4/30/2008 10:26:47 PM)

I'll take a BLT with fries, please.



tracydolls -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (5/1/2008 5:51:03 PM)

quote:

Are we less a Christian nation than we were 100 years ago and If you think we are, do you have any supporting data that would prove this point or is it just your opinion?


a 100 years ago, there was no abortions being done legally, there was no gay marriage being done legally, we(this country) have made laws that say that is ok.



bob97 -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (5/1/2008 6:51:10 PM)

quote:

we(this country) have made laws that say that is ok.


Who is we Tracy...I haven't, my Church hasn't, and the people that I vote for generally don't support support abortion or gay marriage.

Secular Liberalism and far to many liberal Christians have been largely responsible encouraging this breakdown in our moral standards.

How do we change that?

Bob



Ps103 -> RE: Was Jeremiah Wright wrong from a Biblical Standpoint? (5/1/2008 8:20:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

His false teachings are best discussed in the thread devoted to BLT (and not the sandwich)



I agree. Please discuss this HERE

Thanks!



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