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1dblthnk02 -> RE: Socialism should be taught in school at a greater level (5/12/2008 9:26:10 AM)
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ORIGINAL: mcp
You have insisted that EARNing only reflects the efforts side of one's worklife.
Actually, I am holding to TomTurn's delineation: earn = rewarded effort. He was very clear about this.
And I am not sure that I disagree as far the definition of earning goes. If someone is rewarded sans effort, then they haven't earned it.
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The right kind of intelligence can reduce the efforts to receive a particular grade in school as well as a wage at work.
Exactly, but now they are being rewarded for their innate talent (accute intelligence) instead of for their effort. This only demonstrates further that grades are not earned.
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So, both intelligence and efforts combined lend to some grade, wage, etc.
When it comes to school, intelligence + effort tends to be reflected in good grades. The grades are not rewards, but rather they reflect the educational profile of the student: the student learned, and applied what they learned.
Isn't this what students are there for? Why should we consider grades as rewards for the student doing what was required of them?
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If you apply both intel and effort, you may increase productivity or learning and either increase in rank/class or get higher grades/wages.
I have worked jobs where greater effort and productivity on my part (or anyone else's) equaled no greater a paycheck, whereas in school I had gotten very good grades in subjects that required little effort on my part. But my good grades did nothing for me outside of school. These two experiences in life taught me that the whole theory of the work ethic is a load of fertilizer.
I have found that neither talent nor effort earned me anything in life.
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natural intellegence can earn a higher grade just like a natural salesman can earn a higher commission.
Both are talents. Talent oftentimes gets rewarded, but talent itself cannot be earned because it is innate, or God-given, if you will. If the talent to acquire rewards is not itself earned, then neither are the rewards.
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Grades reflect learning
. . . not earning.
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Higher learning and the associated grades are not just to fight back alzheimers or for making an individual feel good; it is to compete for upper level jobs and coexist with other educated citizens.
Your argument loses on two counts:
1. You gave the example of a 100 on a 1st grade exam: that grade loses its value with time. Grades always lose their value once you graduate.
2. Positions in jobs are gotten by personal credentials, not grades. They want to see your degree, your honors, your letters of recommendation, your references.
Experience also goes a long way; but being "connected" is the very best tool of all. We tend to use the terms "connections," or "networking." It's that old adage, "It's not what you know, but who you know," or what I call white affirmative action.
But, of all these criteria, the ones given the least consideration are the grades you got as a student.
Some reward.
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Education can serve many goals; a grade is a fair goal for education.
And once you achieve the "goal," you're done. Now what?
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I am not postulating that people be given grades that are not reflective of abilities or efforts which proved learning level.
But if it's about learning, then earning cannot be a consideration. Either you earn-- in which case only the degree of effort matters-- or else you learn-- in which case it doesn't matter how much effort you put into it as long as you meet the requirements.
Learning is about the ends; earning is about the means. See?
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Education is not for merely earning learned facts
You don't "earn learning"; that's an oxymoron. You either learn, or you don't-- period.
I mean, if you want to loosen the definition of earn to mean anything acquired by any means at all, then I "earn" oxygen every time that I inhale, or "earn" sleep when I lie down at night. A definition this broad voids the word of any useful application.
Earning implies effort, diligence, and character, otherwise it isn't earning. Likewise, learning implies receptiveness, attention, and innate intelligence, otherwise it isn't learning.
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When the teacher measures your learning and skills and gives you an 'A', then you have received/obtained a grade; and since EARN can mean receive/obtain, then you earned it.
This goes back to what I just said about over-broadening the parameters of what earn means.
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One benefit to getting the grade; you know how you compare to what is expected for your age/class group.
Is this a commodity? What can I exchange this comparison for?
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And a side benefit is that the grade can be buying power for scholarships.
And if this is my only concern, then why not cheat to get good grades? After all, it's about the goal, not the education.
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The definition of earning is not restricted to work and obtaining currency for buying concrete objects.
Earning, in the context of reward, demands a commodity of some kind. Even a stupid trophy is more of a reward than a grade.
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Key word in my last point was BASELINING which I explained by suggesting that learning is based on expectations for humans in different classes;
No, your point was about competition: you can't keep moving the goal posts at will.
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No one said that grades measure earning; they have said that grades are earned; and I additionally accept that grades are a measuring tool for learning as well. these concepts are not mutually exclusive.
They have to be, otherwise what is the difference.
Maybe that's what I should have you answer here, in your own words:
What is the difference between earning and learning?
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Again grades are earned by effort
What effort?
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experience
If you already have the experience, what the heck are you taking the course for?
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and natural talents
Which precludes effort. How can you not see this?
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Grades may not be earned fairly in your opinion, but they are earned nonetheless.
In order for grades to be earned fairly, we would have to discount intelligence and talent; we would also have to make the grades actually worth something.
Doesn't sound like education anymore, does it?
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