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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/16/2008 10:53:30 PM
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PromiseLander
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
I don't care what color Adam's skin was; it's not even close to being a theological issue!
Alot of people say that but always say he was white.
Why not type ADAM WAS A BLACK MAN. It really doesnt matter in the scheme of things.
All kindreds, nations, tongues will be in Heaven. But we can tell the truth.
Adam was black. Telling the truth does matter as a Christian to me at least!
Well, yes, truth is important... But I don't see why you are so dogmatic about this when there isn't any information of any kind as to what Adam looked like. I really don't mean to sound offensive, but I speak the truth - your dogmatism over such an issue smacks of racism. If this carries absolutely no theological weight (and it doesn't), why make this the only issue that you address? Concern yourself with salvation issues friend, leave the stumbling blocks to the devisive and immature.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 6:29:38 AM
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JonCo54
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Well drj11, what rock did you crawl out from under? You can think whatever you like about Answers In Genesis. The truth cannot be hidden. Instead of making ridiculous posts, I suggest you spend more time in Bible studies and prayer. And last but definitely not least. get yourself a decent education. If you are already attending post secondary education, ask for your money back as they aren't teaching you anything.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 11:41:26 AM
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Marcus.
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If you want to guess at what Ad'aam looked like go back to the source. He is far more likely to have been a ruddy or reddish complexion.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 11:46:14 AM
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Marcus.
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THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2006
Dawkins: Nazi Eugenics "May Not Be Bad"?
By Rick Pearcey
Since the end of the second world war," LifeSite reports, "the name of eugenics, the social philosophy that the human species or particular races ought to be improved by selective breeding or other forms of genetic manipulation, is one that conjures instant images of the Nazi death camps and 'racial hygiene' programs."
Now comes Dawkins: "In a letter to the editor of Scotland’s Sunday Herald, Dawkins argues that the time has come to lay this spectre to rest. Dawkins writes that though no one wants to be seen to be in agreement with Hitler on any particular, 'if you can breed cattle for milk yield, horses for running speed, and dogs for herding skill, why on Earth should it be impossible to breed humans for mathematical, musical or athletic ability?'”
People are outraged, as one might expect. But it's hard to disagree with Dawkins, if one accepts Darwinian presuppositions. Evolutionary theory asserts an unbroken line of continuity between life and nonlife, from the empty void of nothingness, to the impersonal particle, to the unconscious amoeba, to the cute little monkey, to the magnificent artist decorating the Sistine Chapel.
Commentary continued
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 1:04:59 PM
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Veritas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Yeah, he said apes came from AFrica, true, but then he connected to man, that's where the cover up started.
OK. So, Darwin said man came from apes that lived in Africa. Remind me agin: What exactly is being coverd-up
Trying to cover up that G-D created man and that he first walked the earth as a black man.
Instead we got man came from apes, those very same first people are the lower race.
a bunch of junk!
There is a big difference between a cover-up and the finding of evidence that conflicts with your pre-conceived notions.
No one is covering up any evidence. Darwin didn't cover; he uncovered evidence. If you have any evidence to support there was such a person as Adam or any evidence that could tell us where he lived, I'd really like to hear it.
So... Where is the evidence that is supposed to have been covered-up?
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 1:26:46 PM
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gluadys
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2006
Dawkins: Nazi Eugenics "May Not Be Bad"?
By Rick Pearcey
Since the end of the second world war," LifeSite reports, "the name of eugenics, the social philosophy that the human species or particular races ought to be improved by selective breeding or other forms of genetic manipulation, is one that conjures instant images of the Nazi death camps and 'racial hygiene' programs."
Now comes Dawkins: "In a letter to the editor of Scotland’s Sunday Herald, Dawkins argues that the time has come to lay this spectre to rest. Dawkins writes that though no one wants to be seen to be in agreement with Hitler on any particular, 'if you can breed cattle for milk yield, horses for running speed, and dogs for herding skill, why on Earth should it be impossible to breed humans for mathematical, musical or athletic ability?'”
Theoretically, of course, it is possible. Ethically, it is ridiculous. We cannot and ought not to prescribe the limitations on human mating choices that such a breeding program would require.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 3:45:12 PM
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Marcus.
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It brings up an interesting discussion. This fits into those who say that morality and ethics are merely societal customs and preferences. With no one external source of morality, then you have each and every person in effect becoming their own 'god'. Hence the problem with calling activities and behaviors good and evil. Then you have those you believe that ethics and morality is imposed on us by design from outside our human ability by God.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 5:56:52 PM
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gluadys
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
It brings up an interesting discussion. This fits into those who say that morality and ethics are merely societal customs and preferences.
Even if one subscribes to this concept, it still makes it impractical to enforce a human breeding program.
quote:
With no one external source of morality, then you have each and every person in effect becoming their own 'god'.
No, you have socially prescribed moralities often upheld by the instrumentality of religion and government. There are not many ways for social beings to really act like their own god. Maybe on a desert island.
quote:
Hence the problem with calling activities and behaviors good and evil. Then you have those you believe that ethics and morality is imposed on us by design from outside our human ability by God.
Societies have never had a problem calling activities and behaviours good and evil. Whether they were right or wrong is another matter. And how one decides who is right or wrong is yet another question. Even those of us who believe in God and in an objective moral order have highly different opinions on what is right and wrong--especially when historical time-frames are taken into account. "Time makes ancient good uncouth." And sometimes time leads to reversal of opinion too.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 6:07:57 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 917
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 23, 2006
Dawkins: Nazi Eugenics "May Not Be Bad"?
By Rick Pearcey
That's quite a bending of the original article. Especially since that 20 paragraph article includes just one sentence of what Dawkins actually wrote.
quote:
The spectre of Hitler has led some scientists to stray from "ought" to "is" and deny that breeding for human qualities is even possible.
Dawkins is saying that just because we ought not institute eugenics does not mean that it is impossible to do so.
quote:
I wonder whether, some 60 years after Hitler's death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons. Or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them. I can think of some answers, and they are good ones, which would probably end up persuading me.
Dawkins wants to consider whether selective breeding might be morally acceptable. He seems to think it isn't, though it isn't clear. Nowhere does he express any sympathy at all for genocide or say that "the Nazi regime’s genocidal project 'may not be bad.'"
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-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 6:18:11 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
With no one external source of morality, then you have each and every person in effect becoming their own 'god'.
Not if you consider concepts of good and evil to be natural rather than supernatural attributes. What if good is simply that which enhances our survival as individuals and as a collective, while evil is simply that which does not enhance said survival? . . .
In that case, not all of humanity is going to identify the exact same things as good or evil, for survival calls on different requirements in different geolocal environments.
Guess what?: all of humanity does not agree on delineations of good and evil. This fact supports my view, and witnesses against the assumption of an objective, supernatural, overarching standard of good and evil.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/17/2008 8:34:38 PM
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Marcus.
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I've read that without exception societies even very isolated ones consider many of behaviors evil which we find in the Ten Commandments.
If you take a possession of a person or a spouse you will be seen as breaking a strong social taboo. Some societies will still assign you to the stone heap for it. Even in our 'enlightened' societies we still view causing a family to break up as morally repugnant.
The vast majority view homosexuality as repugnant.
Lying will make you mistrusted in most societies. Injuring or killing another will get you banished or killed yourself.
Survival may account for some social constructs of right or wrong but not the near universally accepted norms, esp. in modern technological societies. IMHO it is evidence of God's promise that He will write His laws on our hearts. That it is part of His design of us.
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 5/17/2008 8:41:39 PM >
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/18/2008 10:50:52 AM
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1dblthnk02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
I've read that without exception societies even very isolated ones consider many of behaviors evil which we find in the Ten Commandments.
This is hardly surprising. There are certain universal prohibitions such as murder, incest, and taking another's wife: these can corrupt any society anywhere.
But half of the Ten Commandments deal with moral observations specific to Judaism. This does not speak to a universal standard of morality.
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If you take a possession of a person or a spouse you will be seen as breaking a strong social taboo.
In which society? Native Americans used to "raid" their enemies' camps and take their possessions, and this was not considered evil, but a sign of valor.
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The vast majority view homosexuality as repugnant.
And is repugnant the same thing as evil?
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Lying will make you mistrusted in most societies.
That depends: in some societies good liars were considered good storytellers, and today we have many highly esteemed politicians and lawyers who lie through their teeth.
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Injuring or killing another will get you banished or killed yourself.
Unless you are a soldier/warrior, or a professional fighter/athlete. Killing and injuring are conditional sins.
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Survival may account for some social constructs of right or wrong but not the near universally accepted norms, esp. in modern technological societies.
True. Morals and concepts of good/evil take on their own life when beliefs develop around these aspects of survival, deeming them sacred after awhile.
This does not make them supernatural or objective.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 5/18/2008 10:57:34 AM >
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/19/2008 7:39:43 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1340
Joined: 3/30/2008
From: Mpls, MN
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quote:
Well, yes, truth is important... But I don't see why you are so dogmatic about this when there isn't any information of any kind as to what Adam looked like. I really don't mean to sound offensive, but I speak the truth - your dogmatism over such an issue smacks of racism. If this carries absolutely no theological weight (and it doesn't), why make this the only issue that you address? Concern yourself with salvation issues friend, leave the stumbling blocks to the devisive and immature.
It does carry weight to me to tell the truth. We cannot get to that truth because of things like what Darwin did. 150 years later we still want to argue that Black people were not first. From Christians that believe the Bible and believe DNA.
Adam and Eve. That's who I believe were first.
Dna says
Tanzania. north border.
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/stephenoppenheimer/stephen-oppenheimer.html
That's the truth. My friend I was trying to get away from racist issues when I looked up Christianity, came here about a month and half ago.
I came to this thread to talk about how Darwin contributed to this mess.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/19/2008 7:55:36 PM
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tracydolls
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quote:
No one is covering up any evidence. Darwin didn't cover; he uncovered evidence.
So Darwin reported that once we went from ape to man, Black people built the first kingdoms, had the first gov't, invented Sciences and maths?
Did he say anything close to "human civilizations as we know them were created by Black people"
no he lied and said
a bunch of junk.
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Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/19/2008 8:16:36 PM
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drj11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JonCo54
Well drj11, what rock did you crawl out from under? You can think whatever you like about Answers In Genesis. The truth cannot be hidden. Instead of making ridiculous posts, I suggest you spend more time in Bible studies and prayer. And last but definitely not least. get yourself a decent education. If you are already attending post secondary education, ask for your money back as they aren't teaching you anything.
Sorry, it can't really be said any less gently than that. AiG publishes and promotes embarrassingly bad information. I think they literally just make **** up half the time.. the rest of it is shoddy pseudo-science garbage. Definitely NOT the place to look if you want to be educated.
Getting your evolution information from them is a bit like getting global warming information from green peace... or the oil companies for that matter... or learning black history from the klu klux klan. I know I'm off in ad hominem land, but AiG is so ridiculous that it needs to be said.. and hey, sometimes an ad hominem is appropriate.
Edit: Not to mention the whole Darwin/Nazi thing really amounts to the ultimate ad hominem from the creationist side... and it has been discussed at length already. Does the fact the Atomic bombs exist make atomic theory evil, or incorrect?
< Message edited by drj11 -- 5/19/2008 8:39:47 PM >
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/19/2008 8:26:52 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1340
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quote:
If you want to guess at what Ad'aam looked like go back to the source. He is far more likely to have been a ruddy or reddish complexion.
One of the earliest documented uses of henna is found in the archeological evidence of Egyptian tombs in the valley of Nile. Ancient Egyptians applied it to the fingers and toes of the pharaohs before mummification.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngari/2321132109/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngari/2321919004/in/set-72157601276906067/
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/19/2008 8:35:05 PM >
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/19/2008 9:04:18 PM
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drj11
Posts: 632
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
If you want to guess at what Ad'aam looked like go back to the source. He is far more likely to have been a ruddy or reddish complexion.
One of the earliest documented uses of henna is found in the archeological evidence of Egyptian tombs in the valley of Nile. Ancient Egyptians applied it to the fingers and toes of the pharaohs before mummification.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngari/2321132109/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngari/2321919004/in/set-72157601276906067/
So what exactly is Darwin covering up? You seem to be hung up on this point about Africans...
Darwin did say that humans most likely arose from Africa, although he didn't have any fossil evidence to back it up in his day.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/19/2008 10:57:25 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1340
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quote:
So what exactly is Darwin covering up? You seem to be hung up on this point about Africans...
Darwin did say that humans most likely arose from Africa, although he didn't have any fossil evidence to back it up in his day.
He said the africans were from a "lower race" what he covered up was that they built kingdoms, the first ones.
_____________________________
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
My granddaughter Niara
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/20/2008 1:18:03 AM
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Conquered
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quote:
Then let's throw out all theories not based on fact. That's fine with me. We would still have the Big Bang, the theory of evolution, and a whole host of theories that give creationists fits.
Well, we'd have the Big Bang any way. Evolution is just a ponzi scheme built on the false presumption that mirco-evolution gives you licence to gap fill for an unproven macro.
So yeah, I'm good with the idea that ex nihlio didn't give birth to a universe of things and destroys an irrational belief that chance is the real reason why we draw breath.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/20/2008 1:26:56 AM
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apollos122
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Darwin didn't come up with this theory first it was most likely Wallace, and Darwin stole his idea...even copied Wallace's essay.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/20/2008 7:21:31 AM
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drj11
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conquered
quote:
Then let's throw out all theories not based on fact. That's fine with me. We would still have the Big Bang, the theory of evolution, and a whole host of theories that give creationists fits.
Well, we'd have the Big Bang any way. Evolution is just a ponzi scheme built on the false presumption that mirco-evolution gives you licence to gap fill for an unproven macro.
So yeah, I'm good with the idea that ex nihlio didn't give birth to a universe of things and destroys an irrational belief that chance is the real reason why we draw breath.
Given the ever growing fossil record, our knowledge of genetics etc etc, it hasn't been a matter of "if macroevolution" happened for a long time now. That "macroevolution" happened (happens) is a fact... its as certain as the sun rising every morning. What is less certain are all the mechanisms involved.
< Message edited by drj11 -- 5/20/2008 7:36:16 AM >
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/20/2008 10:10:56 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
He said the africans were from a "lower race" what he covered up was that they built kingdoms, the first ones.
The "lower race" he was refering to were not modern humans, black or otherwise, nor did they build kingdoms.
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/20/2008 11:27:39 AM
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Marcus.
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My favorite class in geology was paleontology. I don't remember any definite examples of macro-evolution. The ones that were taught about were only tenuous examples at best. They could be argued against as much as argued for.
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 5/20/2008 12:40:59 PM >
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RE: Ben Stein is right! Darwinists are tyrants. - 5/20/2008 11:45:56 AM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 917
Joined: 10/14/2007
From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
what he covered up was that they built kingdoms, the first ones.
Darwin was a biologist, not a historian. He didn't say much at all (if anything) about any human kingdoms. The educated classes of Darwin's day would have been well-read in the classics, and the Greeks often spoke of Egypt as a source of ancient knowledge.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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