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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 1:31:07 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 304
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quote:
ORIGINAL: madalluge
There are going to be a lot of souls in heaven because of Todd Bentley...a lot of crowns to lay at his feet...but I'm sure God will be offended by the tattoos and earring and will probably look at our meager offering and be blessed....c'mon...think about what you are saying!
I disagree. If anyone is healed much less led to Christ, it's in spite of him, not because of him. I don't think the tattoos and earring are what God's going to have a problem with!
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 3:29:44 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1421
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
I don't think that Jesus, the Apostles, the early Christians were ever recorded rolling around on the floor, barking like dogs, caught up in fits of laughter or other of the modern manifestations of the Holy Spirit. In fact didn't people get demons cast out for kind of similar behaviors in the bible?
Um, yes.
_____________________________
And the money says 'In God We Trust' but it's against the law to pray in schools... don't ask me for the answers I've only got one, that a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 3:50:05 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 1771
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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Just wondering: have there been any legitimate charismatic churches/organizations speak out against this circcus?
_____________________________
One hundred religious persons knit into a unity by careful organization do not constitute a church any more than eleven dead men make a football team.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 4:32:31 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1421
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Just wondering: have there been any legitimate charismatic churches/organizations speak out against this circcus?
At this point Collie I don't really know that many of them know about this guy. The ones who seem most interested in Todd Bentley are the ones who were really into Brownsville and Toronto. It is almost as if they are looking for their next big "spiritual fix".
There have been at least 3 people come down to my church from TACF and this Bentley guy hasn't been mentioned in my church- yet. I am going to keep my big yapper shut about him though until it does. I know people from 3 other charismatic churches and none of them have anything to do with Brownsville nor would they touch this if they had heard of him.
Give it some more time then we'll find out who has to say what about it. If he's speaking in Toronto that will be major exposure. If Benny Hinn picks up on it that will be even bigger. For the most part though there are still many charismatic churches that wouldn't want this. Just don't look for the big money congregations to be among them.
_____________________________
And the money says 'In God We Trust' but it's against the law to pray in schools... don't ask me for the answers I've only got one, that a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 5:08:17 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2211
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I think the church I'm a member of would be considered a "big money" (if you're referring to budget, giving to missions, etc.) church and we wouldn't touch this guy with a ten foot pole. But then again, we're the more quiet wing of the AofG.
_____________________________
<-- Moonlight memorial photo. Vampire characters tend to have long lives...unless their television series is on CBS. :(
Blog: CrossCommentary
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 5:26:43 PM
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searcher1
Posts: 57
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hollanderk
quote:
First off, I know SAM FROM WASHINGTON WITH 4 GOLD TEETH. I have seen them with my own eyes.
Hollanderk, I think you've been duped. I don't know how, Don't know by who but... Just stop and think for a minute. God designed man. He chose everything about him. He chose to put hair on his body. He chose to put teeth in his mouth. He chose to make those teeth out of 4 different meterials. Cementum, Pulp, Dentin, and finally Enamel. My question to you respectively is "Why would God use a different substance then what he originally chose. If gold was better, why did'nt he make them out of it in the first place. And since he chose those four ingredents originally he must have though they would better serve us. So why would he put gold in when he could just as easily put the original stuff in. I do believe in healing, but everything that is shinny is not gold, no pun intended.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 7:02:04 PM
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RatherDashing
Posts: 7510
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Shimmyland.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: searcher1
Hollanderk, I think you've been duped. I don't know how, Don't know by who but...
After such an opening statement, it makes your following assumptions weak.
_____________________________
Some people say matter always existed. Great, I say God always existed.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 8:45:10 PM
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searcher1
Posts: 57
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quote:
After such an opening statement, it makes your following assumptions weak.
Oh... go back to sleep ratherdashing.... and by the way your not.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 8:47:14 PM
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searcher1
Posts: 57
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Just kidding...
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 9:50:08 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 707
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
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quote:
I'd encourage everyone to not look at the delivery or the outfit, but the fruit. They didn't recognize Jesus when he came either, as they had preconceived ideas of what this was to look like. They didn't understand his message and it was different from what they had heard. If you look at true revivals in the past, it did have economic impact, it came in packages that offended...it's God's way. He offends the mind to go for our heart....that's the problem with most of us and why we are a powerless and impotent people...our head is always in the way...it's the Greek way. God is Spirit and he will connect with you in your spirit...so before you form your opinion...it could be that you are speaking against the Holy Spirit. My cry has been, God I don't want to miss you and I don't want to judge lest I be judged...keep me from offense and being offended how you choose to do things...They laughed at Noah...it couldn't be God...they mocked David when he danced...they stoned the disciples, they crucified Jesus, they wouldn't listen to the prophets...especially the naked ones. Oh yeah, he had one marry a whore...if you really look, God is pretty strange...not the nice neat packaged God we have made him into. There are going to be a lot of souls in heaven because of Todd Bentley...a lot of crowns to lay at his feet...but I'm sure God will be offended by the tattoos and earring and will probably look at our meager offering and be blessed....c'mon...think about what you are saying!
OK lets start at the beginning. Oh madalluge are you one of those hit and runs - give your opinion and then not back it up?
First off the reason they didn't recognize Messiah was because they were looking for Messiah Ben David the conquering King the one to save them from their physical enemies, not Messiah Ben Yoseph the servant King. They chose not to understand His message and the "they" you speak of were the leaders of the day not the common people.
The revivals of the past did make an impact - for the Kingdom not one person. And yes they offended some as all things offend some. But the whole of a region where the revival took place changed. Murders, theft, divorce, all of the "evil ways" went down considerably.
And if we are speaking against the Holy Spirit as you say then according to Yeshua we are committing the sin that can't be pardoned. Those are pretty strong accusations then. Be careful lest you fall.
Who laughed at Noah? Where does it say that in the Bible? Maybe in Bill Cosby's story but not in the Scripture.
The only one mocking David was his wife Michal.
They stoned the disciples because of the message of the CROSS.
They didn't listen to the prophets because of the message of repentance and turning back to G~d.
Think about what you are saying.
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 10:39:58 PM
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funny_girl
Posts: 622
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I believe in miracles. I believe God can use whomever He pleases to bring people to him. What I don't understand is this:
I found this youtube video of him at Airport. No tatoos or earings then. What are we suppose to think? Why would someone do this to their body after they've been saved?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zMRChoojZo&feature=related
< Message edited by funny_girl -- 5/10/2008 10:46:29 PM >
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/10/2008 11:01:06 PM
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funny_girl
Posts: 622
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
RatherDashing: Are there any other spirits capable of providing healing? People can thrive on emotionalism, yes, but how does emotionalism reflect medical reports of how cancer magically disappeared?
As others have state, satan can perform false signs and wonders.
True = of God.
False = of satan or demons.
False doesn't always mean faked. 'False' can refer to the power behind the miracle, a power which is very real but not of God. Rev 13:13 states that fire will come down from heaven through the power of the beast. It doesn't say it's only an illusion of fire... it says it's real fire which comes through real power.
Rev 13:13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
In fact, there are no limitations put on the types of false signs and wonders that can occur. That's why it's such a deception:
2 Thess 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders...
Matt 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Pagan and occult practitioners also claim to receive miraculous healings and signs... so does that make it of God?? This should tell you that there is a false power at work in the world that deceives many.
Test the spirits. When reading through the list of what Todd Bentley preaches, practices, and promotes, we find unbelievable greed, arrogance, false teaching, false prophecy, false miracles, false signs and wonders, promotion of self-induced trance and meditative states, visions of spirit guides, unBiblical claims of visiting levels of heaven. It's not that hard to put two and two together.
Just a note about the angel 'Emma': There are no female angels in scripture. That should have been Todd's first clue.
These are excellent scriptures and ones that came to my mind when hearing of the Toronto Blessing way back when. BUT, people thought the same thing of the Vineyard movement too. God can find us where we are, can't He? We happened to be camping in the wilderness when a family moved into the site next to us with the daughter of the founding pastor of Vineyard. I had a real heart to heart with Stephanie about my doubts. She told me not to be disillusioned with people. I really feel that God used that encounter to prepare me for the future church that we'd be invited to down here in Mexico. The thing is, yes, absolutely test the spirit. But, I think you need to know that the scripture clearly says the gospel will be preached despite us. So, yes, we see a lot of garbage, but some people are really getting touched despite us humans. We want it to all be right and it's not. Some of the best missionaries that we work with were radically changed by attending the Brownsville revival. God really did touch some people. Some of it was nonsense. Some of it was weird. Some of it was genuine. God healed a paralyzed man in our first crusade. He didn't walk perfectly and my husband was really discouraged. God told him that it was for His name not my husbands. Three years later, the man returned to drugs and lost his healing. He had never walked in his life before the crusade. I don't understand it all. God is soverign. We are working for His glory.
I felt funny when I clicked on the Fresh Fire webpage because of how the 'sow a seed' is laid out. That's just one red flag to me. We don't ask for money. I've asked people to pray that God would meet a need and He has quickly responded. I do believe you reap what you sow and I do believe in speaking things out in faith as I've seen beautiful miracles happen from secret prayers of faith. All in balance. I just can't stand it when people get so hyped out. I know of a few in our church that really wanted my husband to 'be it' and we're like, no, focus on Jesus and you'll be in sync with what the Spirit of God is doing. We don't like these 'fade' things either.
I know that someone was also telling me that they were saying this was all coming to pass from some prophecy back in the 70's. But Billy Graham, Rinehart Bonke, Kathryn Kulman, and Benny Hinn have filled football stadiums for years. So, I just can't agree that this Cain prophecy is coming to pass. It's just not scriptural, in my opinion. The Bible says that the days are evil and will get worse...it doesn't say that the media will have nothing to report because they'll only have good news. That will never happen.
< Message edited by funny_girl -- 5/10/2008 11:22:16 PM >
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 1:10:17 AM
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funny_girl
Posts: 622
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
I quote this from someone I personally know. Him and I have been going back and forth concerning Todd Bentley:
quote:
One time in a dream I sat down with Todd at a fancy restaurant. Food was all of a sudden before us. It was manna and it was wet. I ate some and it was awkward. This manna came from inside our spirits where the Holy Ghost is. This manna is the Bread of Life, Jesus Christ. It's just one of the several dreams that I have had where the Holy Ghost has manifested a representation of Todd in my dreams where we were doing exploits for God. Maybe it really was Todd and our spirits met up in the spirit world, I don't know. What I do know is that nobody has 100% right theology. The Holy Ghost is 100% though and I support what He is doing though Todd right now. Don't miss out by succumbing to the critical spirit that lingers over this school and who so many people give into it thus shunning themselves from the things of God.
Emphasis added. . .
This type of thought scares me so much. But it doesn't seem to matter what one says, they will defend their false teachers tooth and nail.
I have been called a heretic, a blasphemer, not of the "Kingdom Level," listener of demons, not truly a Christian, without the Spirit's dwelling, hell-bound, and such, all for trying to defend biblical truth.
I still can't figure out how when I judge one's teachings, those who support this person can judge my salvation. I don't get it.
I've been reading some of the posts on the Todd Bentley thing and I just wanted you to know that I didn't get a good feeling about the 'fresh fire' site when I briefly looked at it. I've blocked myself from reading your posts because I feel like you go over board on some things. I just got a new laptop and can listen online again. In the past, I really enjoyed listening to Joyce Meyer so I clicked on her site to see what was new. Have I out grown it? I really was ministered by a lot of her material. I don't think she's God, but she really does have some good material even if I don't agree 100 percent w/everything she says or does. People aren't perfect. I'm not perfect, you're not perfect. I just try to glean what's good and throw out the rest.
Obviously people can start out right and get weird, I heard that's what happened with Jim Jones. Down here in Mexico we have a Luz del mundo church that has strange buildings popping up around and I heard the same thing about that guy.
What Christian denomination is 100 percent accurate? We fellowship with many denominations because our focus is the Word of God and not the denomination. I for one won't be running off to a Bentley conference because I need his anointing transferred to me. Just earlier in the week I expressed my concern about this whole thing to another missionary that wants to receive this healing transfer. I said than receive it. Jesus can meet you where you are. You don't have to run all around the world looking for Christ. It reminds me of the scripture that says not to run here and there because they say, "There's the Christ!"
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 4:15:29 AM
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rlj
Posts: 1421
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
I think the church I'm a member of would be considered a "big money" (if you're referring to budget, giving to missions, etc.) church and we wouldn't touch this guy with a ten foot pole. But then again, we're the more quiet wing of the AofG.
Ok, there are those that wouldn't. ; ) Probably within like you said the AoG, within the Foursquare within the Pentecostal churches.
_____________________________
And the money says 'In God We Trust' but it's against the law to pray in schools... don't ask me for the answers I've only got one, that a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 9:13:32 AM
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madalluge
Posts: 3
Joined: 5/10/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
OK lets start at the beginning. Oh madalluge are you one of those hit and runs - give your opinion and then not back it up?
Anisavta - Yeah, I probably am...you want to argue, I'm not going to do that...I just want to see the church rise up and become all the God has for her. If we think we are there is America, we are gravely deceived. We spend more time critizing others then healing the sick, deliverling the demonized and setting the captives free.
We want to debate the validity of some guy because we don't like the flavor...ok, so maybe he not on 100% with his theology...so what, either are you. God doesn't give it all any of us. If this is where we are at then the devil has us more than we realize....keeping us impotent...powerless...uneffective with a dying world. As I get to know Jesus, I find the more I don't understand him...his Mercy, his Grace, his Justice...and the more I want to give glory to his holy name, to glorify Him! So spend your time arguing and debating while the world around goes to hell....I not interested. I'm grieved by some of the posts here and I just wanted to encourage others to consider this could be God...If you know better, fine. Later.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 9:45:05 AM
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wintery
Posts: 595
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: madalluge
quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
OK lets start at the beginning. Oh madalluge are you one of those hit and runs - give your opinion and then not back it up?
Anisavta - Yeah, I probably am...you want to argue, I'm not going to do that...I just want to see the church rise up and become all the God has for her. If we think we are there is America, we are gravely deceived. We spend more time critizing others then healing the sick, deliverling the demonized and setting the captives free.
We want to debate the validity of some guy because we don't like the flavor...ok, so maybe he not on 100% with his theology...so what, either are you. God doesn't give it all any of us. If this is where we are at then the devil has us more than we realize....keeping us impotent...powerless...uneffective with a dying world. As I get to know Jesus, I find the more I don't understand him...his Mercy, his Grace, his Justice...and the more I want to give glory to his holy name, to glorify Him! So spend your time arguing and debating while the world around goes to hell....I not interested. I'm grieved by some of the posts here and I just wanted to encourage others to consider this could be God...If you know better, fine. Later.
madalluge,
May I ask if you're knee-jerking without considering how studiously some of us have gone about our critiques, posting the actual words and videos of Bentley and Strader? (and others?)
It is a mistake to assume that God is absent in the lives of those who are pointing out error where others have simply assumed and accepted that there is something "of God" going on.
There are many here stating godly opinions of caution and warning concerning the Lakeland meetings.
quote:
If this is where we are at then the devil has us more than we realize....keeping us impotent...powerless...uneffective with a dying world.
Hardly. How impressed with power or what passes for it are the crowd that is attracted to Bentley.
We see repeatedly the "I accept anything and everything _e-x-c-e-p-t_ those who examine preaching/prophesying/healing in the light of Scripture and truth."
quote:
I'm grieved by some of the posts here
But you have no problem with "angel Emma"?
_____________________________
"There is no work better than to please God; to pour water, to wash dishes, to be a cobbler, or an apostle, all are one as touching the deed, to please God."-William Tyndale
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 12:46:17 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 4618
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
I don't think that Jesus, the Apostles, the early Christians were ever recorded rolling around on the floor, barking like dogs, caught up in fits of laughter or other of the modern manifestations of the Holy Spirit. In fact didn't people get demons cast out for kind of similar behaviors in the bible? 
I do remember one very excited man;
(Act 3:7) And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
(Act 3:8) And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
So maybe everyone touched and healed by God in Scripture did not just quietly sing some dirge of an anthem.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 1:15:54 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 707
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
Status: offline
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quote:
We spend more time critizing others then healing the sick, deliverling the demonized and setting the captives free.
You haven't been to my synagogue darlin". We pray for the sick in heart, soul and body every Shabbat annointing those with oil - confessing sin - and there is healing taking place.
I just watched the latest video provided and again I was heartsick. This poor German guy has a DREAM with spirit guides telling him to come to America. He tells the dream and what is so sad is he is sooo excited and expecting. Then our dear Mr Bentley knees him in the stomach and says over and over "BAM BAM BAM". If I was just listening to the audio I would have thought I was listening to Emeril Lagase. And this man falls on the floor in convulsion. I recall Yeshua casting out demons and they were writhing before becoming calm and in their right mind.
"We want to debate the validity of some guy because we don't like the flavor...ok, so maybe he not on 100% with his theology...so what, either are you."
And that is why the church is in such big trouble with false doctrines and prophets and idolatry because of the theology not being 100%. If an airplane goes off it's track one inth of a percent - it ends up far from it's destination. Same goes here!
And we who are posting are not "ministering" to millions of people asking for millions of dollars.
"So spend your time arguing and debating while the world around goes to hell...."
Can't agree with you there. Not sure about the others on this thread but I spend a month a year (much more if I had the funds to do it) going to Israel - Tel Aviv in particular feeding poor and homeless people and showing them the love of their Messiah Yeshua. Healing as the L~rd leads.
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 1:48:12 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1504
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
I don't think that Jesus, the Apostles, the early Christians were ever recorded rolling around on the floor, barking like dogs, caught up in fits of laughter or other of the modern manifestations of the Holy Spirit. In fact didn't people get demons cast out for kind of similar behaviors in the bible?
I do remember one very excited man;
(Act 3:7) And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
(Act 3:8) And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
So maybe everyone touched and healed by God in Scripture did not just quietly sing some dirge of an anthem.
Thanks
RC
I have no problem with people showing their excitement over healing. That isn't what's being displayed with these types of revivals.
_____________________________
Stephanie
"If one starts with an impersonal beginning, the answer to morals eventually turns out to be the assertion that there are no morals." ~Francis Schaeffer
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 1:58:09 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4041
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where thawing pigeons reside...
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It's amazing to see the kinds of excuses and emotional appeals made to and for literally anyone that claims super power in the name of Jesus.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 2:45:06 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1421
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
Then our dear Mr Bentley knees him in the stomach and says over and over "BAM BAM BAM".
Is this guy actually kicking people and stuff???
_____________________________
And the money says 'In God We Trust' but it's against the law to pray in schools... don't ask me for the answers I've only got one, that a man leaves his darkness when he follows the Son.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 5:00:14 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 304
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: madalluge
We want to debate the validity of some guy because we don't like the flavor...ok, so maybe he not on 100% with his theology...so what, either are you. God doesn't give it all any of us. If this is where we are at then the devil has us more than we realize....keeping us impotent...powerless...uneffective with a dying world. As I get to know Jesus, I find the more I don't understand him...his Mercy, his Grace, his Justice...and the more I want to give glory to his holy name, to glorify Him! So spend your time arguing and debating while the world around goes to hell....I not interested. I'm grieved by some of the posts here and I just wanted to encourage others to consider this could be God...If you know better, fine. Later.
If this were some big new thing that was going to finally open people's eyes and bring great revival, it wouldn't be so tragically obvious to so many of us how way off base this guy is. None of this stuff is really new - it's all cycled around several times just in my own liftetime. I didn't see the world rush to Jesus or dramatically altered with any of those movements either. That wont happen until He returns Himself. In the mean time, those that seek HIM will find Him. Those that seek an emotional high or "spiritualism" or POWER will find plenty of these guys to lead them down that path.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
You haven't been to my synagogue darlin". We pray for the sick in heart, soul and body every Shabbat annointing those with oil - confessing sin - and there is healing taking place.
Every Sabbath? No gold teeth? That's not very exciting. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Is this guy actually kicking people and stuff???
I was out of the room but when we watched it the other night, dh said he practically tackled one big guy who just wasn't falling. He said somebody took out his knees and Bentley was pushing his down. It was a big guy (I saw when he first came to the stage); it took quite a bit of the "spirit" (notice not capital on purpose) to get this guy on the ground!
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/11/2008 8:05:52 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 707
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
Status: offline
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quote:
Every Sabbath? No gold teeth? That's not very exciting.
I know. We just have Jewish family members realizing that Yeshua is indeed their Messiah, cancer tests conducted and finding no cancer, miraculous continued healing of a boy's body who opened a package with a bomb in it in Israel, healing of sinus infections - two cent stuff like that. 
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