Is Hell eternal ? (Full Version)

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Briguy47 -> Is Hell eternal ? (5/3/2008 7:33:34 PM)

Hi, I just registered here today.

I have been researching this topic recently and would like some support on it.

Some theologians and Christian authors do NOT believe in the eternal duration of hell.

Any Greek and Hebrew scholars out there who can line up the original versions with the modern Bible translations (which all say that Hell is eternal).

Thanks to all respondents for their help on this subject.



JMCrwd -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/3/2008 10:16:58 PM)

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. So in my opinion no,hell isn't eternal.



Briguy47 -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/3/2008 10:29:56 PM)

I posed this question looking for convincing evidence from the original ancient manuscripts that hell is either eternal or a persons' soul is annihilated. Rev. 20:14 doesn't completely answer this topic. Thank you for your response, but I am still not persuaded to believe that the unsaved souls will be extinguished. That would completely negate the purpose of evangelizing the non-Christians.

Any other thoughts from others out there ? Thanks



Ezra -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/3/2008 10:49:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Briguy47
I posed this question looking for convincing evidence from the original ancient manuscripts that hell is either eternal or a persons' soul is annihilated.


First of all, the original manuscripts of Scripture have never been available to us. They perished with repeated usage. What we have are copies of copies, and a multitude of copies of both Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

The traditional Hebrew Text (supported by the majority of manuscripts) and the Majority Greek Text (also supported by the majority of manuscripts) have been translated into English, and the King James Version is based upon these manuscripts. And eternal Hell (the Lake of Fire) is found in these manuscripts and the English translation.

Also the soul is never "annihilated". That is a false teaching.

quote:

Rev. 20:14 doesn't completely answer this topic.


While Rev. 20:14 does not address the eternality of Hell, Rev. 20:10 does.
"and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" is very plain and clear.

quote:

Thank you for your response, but I am still not persuaded to believe that the unsaved souls will be extinguished.


Who says that unsaved souls will be "extinguished"? Certainly not the Bible. This is a false teaching which a minority of people believe.

Hell was created for the devil and his angels, and they are spirit beings. The plan was not to "extinguish" them, but to confine them to eternal torment in the Lake of Fire, as indicated in Rev. 20:10. Also those who are not found written in the book of life, will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 20:15).



delete123 -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/4/2008 5:08:22 PM)

I know I have heard many theologians who actually believe that hell is a place in one's mind and always remind people to beware of what they believe.
They consider hell a "valley" place of one's own thoughts. However the bible is very open and direct that it is a place where one will spend. In fact Jesus speaks more on hell than he does Heaven.

one example is in Luke 16: 19-31

Where is speaks of a rich man and the poor beggar Lazarus who sits in the bosom of Abraham receiving comfort. The rich man wanted a drip of water from the burning flames of anquish he was suffering.

I've also heard that hell has different levels in which it is not just a very hot place, but can also be in a different degree of very cold.

I believe the O.T. speaks volumes about this, as when King David prayed for his son Absolom when he was decapitated trying to raise him to a different level of hell. Sometimes I believe this is why theologians may consider this a mind state and not an actual place
CRH



SinnerSaved -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/4/2008 5:18:19 PM)

Jesus said hell was eternal:

Matthew 25:44

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.



SinnerSaved -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/4/2008 5:32:59 PM)

Jesus also said

Mark 9:43-44

And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.



jn1010lf -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/4/2008 8:12:13 PM)

Hello Briguy47

I'm one of those people that avoids theologians like the plague. Many of them are so whitewashed and watered down that you wonder what God they're talking about. So, for starters, may I suggest that you study the Bible and see what it says. Then ask the Lord to show you the truth of it.



Ps103 -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/5/2008 12:28:25 PM)

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figmentPez -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/8/2008 6:10:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JMCrwd

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. So in my opinion no,hell isn't eternal.


You might want to do some more study. The word "hell" here is the Greek word hades. More modern translations transliterate as hades, instead of traslating into a non-Greek word.

Revelation 20:14 (New American Standard Bible)
14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Hades, in scripture, refers to the realm of the dead, the same place as the Hebrew Sheol. As I understand it, both the righteous and unrighteous dead are found in Hades/Sheol (though their experience there is radically different). So, Revelation 20:14 is saying that death and the realm of the dead are thrown into the lake of fire. This is after the judgement, so there will be no more first deaths. The only remaining death is the second death, for those who have been judged guilty. This second death, being under the full wrath of God, is indeed eternal for those thrown into the lake of fire. They have no way to satisfy the wrath of God, and so they will be tormented forever.



frankman -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/13/2008 3:48:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Briguy47

Hi, I just registered here today.

I have been researching this topic recently and would like some support on it.

Some theologians and Christian authors do NOT believe in the eternal duration of hell.

Any Greek and Hebrew scholars out there who can line up the original versions with the modern Bible translations (which all say that Hell is eternal).

Thanks to all respondents for their help on this subject.


I`ll quote from the modern New Living Translation and also refer to the KJV and you`ll see the message is clear and has not changed.

The first two people to enter the fiery lake of burning sulfur or the lake of fire will be the beast and his false prophet according to Rev.19:20. "And the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who did mighty miracles on behalf of the beast- miracles that deceived all who had accepted the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue. Both the beast and his false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

Then some time later after the 1000 year millennium Mr. Devil joined them according to Rev.20;10. Now as you read this verse pay special attention to the word "JOINING" or "ARE" in the KJV. "Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." One thousand years later the beast and the false prophet were still there. They had not been annihilated.

Now to Rev.20:15. "And anyone whose name was not found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire." From these verses above we know that those who`s name was not found written in the Book of Life because they refused to believe in Jesus as their Lord and Savior will also suffer in the lake of fire forever and forever and forever. [sm=fireanger.gif] No sense in sugar-coating the Word of God.



evry1needsgod -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/14/2008 10:49:34 AM)

Theologians who claim Hell is not eternal are those who are obsessed with knowledge. They are capable of picking apart and twisting definitions of words to prove their ideology. A perfect example of this is in a recent thread regarding God and time. We just need to look at scripture and let it speak for itself, instead of distorting it. Here are a few verses, many of which have already been mentioned. I will simply put them together...

"And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power," 2 Thess. 1:9.

"Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire" Jude 7.

"...into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:43-44

"...and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Rev 20:10.

" Wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever," Jude 13.

"...Her smoke rises up forever and ever" Rev. 19:3.

"And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" Matt. 25:46.



This is enough to convince me!



johnkw -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/14/2008 12:44:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

quote:

ORIGINAL: Briguy47
I posed this question looking for convincing evidence from the original ancient manuscripts that hell is either eternal or a persons' soul is annihilated.


Also the soul is never "annihilated". That is a false teaching.

quote:

Rev. 20:14 doesn't completely answer this topic.


While Rev. 20:14 does not address the eternality of Hell, Rev. 20:10 does.
"and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever" is very plain and clear.
It only says the Serpent, the Beast, and the False Prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And "for ever and ever" is a translation of "unto the ages of the ages."

I'm currently working on the issue of conscious eternal torment (along with Calvinism). It's so troubling to me, that I want to really nail down what the Scriptures say on the topic, and then let the chips fall where they may. I thought the following article was interesting and helpful. It doesn't line up with everything I believe, but has a lot of good information:
[link removed by moderator]

quote:

Who says that unsaved souls will be "extinguished"? Certainly not the Bible. This is a false teaching which a minority of people believe.
The language Jesus uses is that of destruction, not of torment. E.g., Matt. 10:28: "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy (both soul and body in hell."

[edited by moderator]



MrFribbles -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/14/2008 3:51:53 PM)

quote:

The language Jesus uses is that of destruction, not of torment. E.g., Matt. 10:28: "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy (both soul and body in hell."


Actually, "destruction" language does not equal annihilation. For something to be annihilated, it has to become nothing. The language Christ uses does not imply becoming nothing - it implies destruction. Think of it this way - if you drop a giant steel beam on a car, it is destroyed, but the car still exists.
That's what the idea of the Greek word used in Matthew (apolesai, for you Greek-folks out there). Nothing about it implies that those in hell will cease to exist.



evry1needsgod -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/14/2008 4:13:21 PM)

quote:

MrFribbles:

The language Christ uses does not imply becoming nothing - it implies destruction. Think of it this way - if you drop a giant steel beam on a car, it is destroyed, but the car still exists.


BINGO! Great example MrFibbles. Another example is dropping a glass. The glass breaks, and is destroyed, but does not cease to exist. There are still pieces left however. Other synonyms of 'destroy' are 'demolish' and 'ruin', both assuming there is something left. Nice post!



JimboFletch -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/14/2008 4:16:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod

quote:

MrFribbles:

The language Christ uses does not imply becoming nothing - it implies destruction. Think of it this way - if you drop a giant steel beam on a car, it is destroyed, but the car still exists.


BINGO! Great example MrFibbles. Another example is dropping a glass. The glass breaks, and is destroyed, but does not cease to exist. There are still pieces left however. Other synonyms of 'destroy' are 'demolish' and 'ruin', both assuming there is something left. Nice post!

Jesus used the phrase, "their worm dieth not." I understand that to mean their essence of being.



johnkw -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/14/2008 4:27:48 PM)

I'd respond more to this thread, but I just saw the moderator's warning.



fallenstar -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/18/2008 6:54:51 PM)

I'm not really sure if this will help answer your question (probably not) but did you know that Hel is really the name of the Asturu goddess of the underworld? Since the English language was exposed to these kinds of pagan religons, when people were translating the Bible scrolls from the original Greek they called the place of eternal torment Hel, but added the extra L to separate the goddess from the place. Interesting, is'nt it, how things can get translated?



Neanderthal75 -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/23/2008 2:06:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenstar

I'm not really sure if this will help answer your question (probably not) but did you know that Hel is really the name of the Asturu goddess of the underworld? Since the English language was exposed to these kinds of pagan religons, when people were translating the Bible scrolls from the original Greek they called the place of eternal torment Hel, but added the extra L to separate the goddess from the place. Interesting, is'nt it, how things can get translated?


Hello there FS,

It is indeed interesting. However, I would remind all of us to keep in mind one key aspect: that no matter how many times the Word of God is translated, God still remains more powerful than the men doing the translating.

God's Word IN CONTEXT is the same now, as the day it was written (each text/book thereof). God thought the messages of His Word to be so important, that He finally ended up sending His Son to prove the veracity of His Word.

So when someone raises the 'hasn't it been translated a LOT?' issue, I bring up the fact of how important is His Word to God Himself.

Then we have those pesky little facts of the apprx. 35,000 copies of the NT and the Massoretic Texts which date back to the Babylonian Captivity.

Again, while words and languages do indeed change, CONTEXT remains the same.

Cheers



evry1needsgod -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/23/2008 2:20:14 PM)

quote:

Then we have those pesky little facts of the apprx. 35,000 copies of the NT and the Massoretic Texts which date back to the Babylonian Captivity.

Again, while words and languages do indeed change, CONTEXT remains the same.


AMEN! Isn't it amazing that some Christians will believe Christ gave life to someone who was already DEAD (a human IMPOSSIBILITY), but can't believe God perfectly preserved His word (a human POSSIBILITY)???

If one simply studied Biblical apologetics, one will quickly realize there is a likelihood that the Bible was actually translated perfect, even throughout the many translations it endured.

I could care less where the word "Hell" comes from. It's definition and it's context remain perfectly intact. That's all that matters.



figmentPez -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (5/23/2008 4:29:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fallenstar

I'm not really sure if this will help answer your question (probably not) but did you know that Hel is really the name of the Asturu goddess of the underworld? Since the English language was exposed to these kinds of pagan religons, when people were translating the Bible scrolls from the original Greek they called the place of eternal torment Hel, but added the extra L to separate the goddess from the place. Interesting, is'nt it, how things can get translated?


Actually, from my limited understanding, it's equally likely that Hell came from the Old English helan, or "to hide" (which also gives us hole and hollow). The Latin word "ínferos", used in the Apostle's creed in the section that is translated into English as "He descended into Hell", means "those below" or "underneath", which is a reference to those in the grave. From "underneath" to "hidden" is not a far leap, especially when helan carries an implication of underneath.



Yeshuashme -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (6/3/2008 1:57:50 PM)

Hello everyone....

I'm just going to add my two cents worth then I'm out of here.....

Hell eternal ???? Good question... One thing for sure it does exist.... I have mixed thoughts on this.... But ... I know this one thing for sure....

It is Not God Intension to destroy The wicked... It is God's desire and intensions That all should come to the saving Knowledge of Christ Jesus and except Him as Their Personal Lord and Savior...

It is The devil and his angels that hell was created for. And it is the devil who wants everyone destroyed... Yes Both the wicked and the just.....
he doesn't care who so long as he gets their soul. and since the Children of God are saved... all he can really do is make them stumble.... and stuff like that....

It was Jesus who said that The devil comes only to cheat , steal, and to destroy.... But that I have come to give Life and Life more abundant.....

Now there are a bunch of theory's out there about such things... Hell eternal ??? and such.... But I just never took the time to actually consume myself in that intrest.... Mainly because I have no intensions on going there.... I know My salvation is secure and regardless of anything on this Earth... or in it... No matter what happens when I die... I know I will be In His Holy Kingdom with HIm.... Anyways...

There is one more thing real quick... I know the Bible teaches about a New Heaven and a New Earth...... Considering that hell is suppose to be in the Earth does make me wonder.... If hell is for ever.... However does it really make any diffrence To God's elect ????

Ok that's My two cents........



frankman -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (6/3/2008 4:49:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Luciferiannewbie

Please do some research on the Internet.



[sm=sadquestion.gif] Concerning research about hell, why the internet? Everything written for research on this electric rigamaroll is only written by men and therefore may be right or wrong. Why not research a Book that God wrote? A Book called the Bible. You`ll run into something written 2500 years ago by a writer that knows all about everlasting life for He is the Creator and Sustainer of life. In Dan.12:2 He has this to say about the afterlife. "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."



evry1needsgod -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (6/3/2008 10:25:01 PM)

Boy Yeshuashme, you don't really bother with punctuation huh? LOL



manichunter -> RE: Is Hell eternal ? (6/3/2008 11:55:29 PM)

Does death and hell get thrown in the lake of fire. Am I correct or do error.



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