Pastors and teachers (Full Version)

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CherishedbyGod -> Pastors and teachers (5/5/2008 7:45:13 PM)

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers
Ephesians 4:11


I come from a Calvary Chapel background. While attending there the pastor taught that "pastor and teacher" was one man i.e. that a pastor would always have the gift of teaching. I have always wondered if that is true.

Do you think that is true or do you think the pastor is one gift and teacher is another. By God's grace, almost every pastor I have sat under has been a wonderful teacher. However, the ones I sat under were not good shepherds - not good at tending the flock.

And what about Pastors that are more preachers or pastors that are endued with other gifts instead of, primarily the gift of teaching?

I hope this makes sense[&:]



Aphobos -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/5/2008 10:49:08 PM)

The gift of teaching is separate from that of pastoring. The two are not synonymous. I would say that all pastors are teachers. That is, teaching is an essential gift for the pastorate. The reverse, however, is not true. Not all teachers are pastors. There are many Christians who have the gift of teaching who are not pastors.

~Aphobos



Liveloved -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 12:05:27 AM)

quote:

Do you think that is true or do you think the pastor is one gift and teacher is another. By God's grace, almost every pastor I have sat under has been a wonderful teacher. However, the ones I sat under were not good shepherds - not good at tending the flock.

And what about Pastors that are more preachers or pastors that are endued with other gifts instead of, primarily the gift of teaching?


I, too, think they are distinctly separate gifts. And I have seen few who are strong in both. Usually one gift tends to dominate, IMO. And that is why I think we need the biblical model of a plurality of gifted leaders leading under the headship of Christ. The body of Christ will have all the gifts and be able to function as God desired.[:)]



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 3:24:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

quote:

Do you think that is true or do you think the pastor is one gift and teacher is another. By God's grace, almost every pastor I have sat under has been a wonderful teacher. However, the ones I sat under were not good shepherds - not good at tending the flock.

And what about Pastors that are more preachers or pastors that are endued with other gifts instead of, primarily the gift of teaching?


I, too, think they are distinctly separate gifts. And I have seen few who are strong in both. Usually one gift tends to dominate, IMO. And that is why I think we need the biblical model of a plurality of gifted leaders leading under the headship of Christ. The body of Christ will have all the gifts and be able to function as God desired.[:)]


Thank you Aphobos and Livedloved for your replies!

Liveloved, would you care to elaborate? You don't think a church should have a "senior" pastor - i.e. one pastor over the rest of the leaders and the body?

Just curious, dear sis[:)]



Bluethread -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 4:01:58 PM)

I see both as seperate gifts otherwise it would no tbe necessary to listthem seperately. Now, I do not think one's inabillity teach would preclude that person from sheparding(pastor) others. It is possible to guide people away from or through trouble without them learning much. Our wandering in the wilderness and the various examples in the Haftorah(old testiment after the Torah) show how Adonai can lead us without us learning much. It would be better fi that person had the gift of imparting knowledge, but it is not necessary.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 5:48:05 PM)

This is really wierd. On my computer screen it shows john_mark as being the last one to post on this thread but I cannot find his post on this thread[8D]

Moderator? Any ideas?

Bluethread,

Thank you....

Since in the version I use, at least it says "Pastors and teachers" that is one reason he said the two go together[8|] I guess in his reasoning it should have said "gave pastors and gave teachers" or something like that to differentiate. Make any sense?



Bluethread -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 6:48:13 PM)

I can not confirm the linguistics but, I believe it is a difference without significance, because the point of the passage is that we should not consider on person as more valuable than another. This is because we are all working together for a common goal for a common Lord.



earthless -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 7:28:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aphobos

The gift of teaching is separate from that of pastoring. The two are not synonymous. I would say that all pastors are teachers. That is, teaching is an essential gift for the pastorate. The reverse, however, is not true. Not all teachers are pastors. There are many Christians who have the gift of teaching who are not pastors.

~Aphobos


Exactly - my dad is a PRIME example. He is an excellent Bible teacher but could never go up to a pulpit to preach a sermon nor lead a congregation.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 7:41:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I can not confirm the linguistics but, I believe it is a difference without significance, because the point of the passage is that we should not consider on person as more valuable than another. This is because we are all working together for a common goal for a common Lord.


That is sooo important! I actually think this pastor did consider some people as more valuable than others[&o]

At least for 7- 8 years, that is how it came across...



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 7:45:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aphobos

The gift of teaching is separate from that of pastoring. The two are not synonymous. I would say that all pastors are teachers. That is, teaching is an essential gift for the pastorate. The reverse, however, is not true. Not all teachers are pastors. There are many Christians who have the gift of teaching who are not pastors.

~Aphobos


Exactly - my dad is a PRIME example. He is an excellent Bible teacher but could never go up to a pulpit to preach a sermon nor lead a congregation.


Does he have a shepherd's heart? No need to answer if too personal. I have just struggled in the area of being led by pastors who were excellent teachers but did not have shepherd's hearts.



earthless -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 7:50:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod


Does he have a shepherd's heart?


What exactly do you mean by that term?



Bluethread -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/6/2008 7:52:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Exactly - my dad is a PRIME example. He is an excellent Bible teacher but could never go up to a pulpit to preach a sermon nor lead a congregation.


I believe you are confusing the gift of orator with that of pastor. Though "orator" is not on the list, I believe, the fact that none of the lists in the various passages match implies that there is not difinitive list.

That said, if I am not mistaken the word translated pastor means shepherd. Therefore, I believe it is possible to be a good "pastor" and not be a good orator. Moshe(Moses) is a good example of that, if we can take him at his word on this subject.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Pastors and teachers (5/7/2008 3:38:40 AM)

My stars.... stop the presses, I'm actually about to agree with aphobos. There are those that are gifted as being teachers (ie, my math teacher in high school being one) that have no business taking the title of pastor. Specifically, being a pastor includes a lot more than just teaching. While being a good communicator is essential to being a pastor, you also have to care for the spiritual well being of your congregants and ensure that your staff members are working well together. Not all teachers have the kind of leadership and relational skills necessary to step up into that role... can you imagine having your English professor come to your house when you are severely ill? "I just wanted some chicken soup, why are you giving me a lecture about modern literature?"

Adam



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