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RE: gospels; exact words or exact thoughts - 5/9/2008 8:09:21 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2322
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
You must have real problems with agnostics. I said that the idea that "Jesus probably spoke in Aramaic; it was recorded in Greek." is conjecture. You said, "If you are saying that the common language of the Jews in Palestine was Hebrew, THAT is conjecture. They most certainly did not!"
My basis for that belief is not my own expertise but from the consensus of scholars. Orville Jenkins is not the first or only person I ever read on the subject.
quote:
Now, your evidence that hebrew was not spoken is from existing manuscripts and a person that admits that he is not a linguistics expert.
You are blurring my comments from 2 different issues. See my post 16.
One issue: What was the common language of the Jews of the NT period?
2nd issue: What was the first and original language the NT books were written in?
The 2nd issue would involve supporting manuscript evidence. The first issue would not--not to my knowledge.
Do you understand the difference?
quote:
Now the defect of using existing manuscripts is that they are not contemporary to the facts and are subject to corruption through transcription and/or translation. Therefore, the accuracy of those manuscripts is a matter of faith in the transcribers/translaters....
We have Greek manuscripts going back to the 2nd century at the very least. That is not simply a matter of faith---not faith in the sense of a complete absence of evidence. That is a matter of the textual evidence. There is pretty much agreement of orthodox scholars on that. There is debate concerning Greek manuscript evidence earlier than that. But in any event, it is still Greek.
If I were relying on 15th and 16th manuscript evidence, I could see your point. But I am not. The "corruption" you speak of is so miniscule so as to be a nonissue.quote:
The defect of using an authority who is not a linguistics expert is that he lends no more weight to the argument than the assertion does. Therefore, given these two defects in the evidence, by the definition you quoted the assertion is conjecture. ...
Are you supposing that my conclusion regarding the vernacular of Palestinian Jews of the NT period is based entirely upon Orville Jenkins? It seemed reasonable that I post some sort of evidence regarding the discussion. If his statements were the only things I ever read on it, I could understand your point. I have never heard anything different from anyone, except from people not well read on the subject.
If you intend to press the point, I guess I would have to see how far I could go in assembling the evidence. I don't have a massive library.
Again, keep in mind that there are 2 different issues here. Gathering evidence and scholarship opinion regarding the original language of the NT writings is probably an easier task.
Gathering evidence regarding the vernacular of Palestinian Jews of the NT period probably is probably a different task. But, frankly, I have never heard a single person of scholarship stature suggest that Palestinian Jews of the NT period commonly spoke Hebrew as their vernacular language.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: gospels; exact words or exact thoughts - 5/12/2008 6:47:50 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 572
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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It is good that you are convinced of you position. However, as I have said before, I am not, nor do I see an immediate need to seek convincing evidence. Should an issue come up where it is significant, I may seek out such evidence. Therefore, if you will permit, I will continue in my ambivolence until then.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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