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Stormcrow -> RE: Who is God referring to in Genesis? (5/25/2008 6:18:01 AM)
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quote:
Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.
I haven't dismissed creeds. Merely point out that they have substituted personal scholarship.
When you trust a creed you are trusting someone else's scholarship and trusting man rather than God.
On the first point, "they have substituted personal scholarship" that's a pretty broad brush with which you're painting. My personal scholarship tells me these are right on. Does my agreement with them in the basics of the Christian faith and dogma mean that I am less scholarly than you?
Methinks you presume too much.
On the second point, "When you trust a creed you are trusting someone else's scholarship and trusting man rather than God." do you presume that you're "personal scholarship" is greater and more sanctified than anyone else's? Let's look at your position another way:
Your major premise is that "trusting man' scholarship is evil." So we are not to trust anyone's scholarship. But then you argue that "personal scholarship is good."
Hmmm...If trusting man's scholarship is evil, but trusting your own is good, then either you're not a member of the human race, or it's OK to trust "some" human scholarship, at which point you become the final arbiter of that which is trustworthy and that which is not.
In either case, you're arguing from a position of hubris, not humility.
Finally, tell me specifically which parts of these faith-based statements you disagree with. Be specific:
The Nicene Creed:
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son].
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
The Apostle's Creed:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.
As one source linked here: http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/nicene.htm points out, each creed was written to address a specific heresy of its time, yet both are succinct and - in my view - straightforward encapsulations of Christian dogma on the Trinity and the gospel. They don't replace study but - as noted before - provide a framework for personal study and interpretation.
Yes, the Holy Spirit leads and guides us into all truth, but that presumes the person reading the bible is open to the Spirit's leading. Given that "biblically-based" heresies are springing up all the time in churches, the early church fathers felt something short, sweet and to the point was needed to let people plainly know exactly where the church stood.
That's what these creeds do.
You can argue they aren't needed in light of the Spirit's job to lead and guide into all truth. But obviously - at some point -- they were, or they wouldn't have been written.
And honestly, all you have to do is spend a day reading these boards to see how far afield some people go in interpreting scripture.
Fundamentals aren't just for "fundies."
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