What would build unity in our churches? (Full Version)

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gmc4Jesus -> What would build unity in our churches? (5/6/2008 9:02:54 PM)

Jesus prayed in John 17:20-23: "...that they may all be one just as He and the Father are one..."

Yet, in Acts 6:1-7, division is starting to develop in the Church as division arrises over how the Gentile Christians are being treated as opposed to the Jewish Christians.

I Corinthians 1:10-17 opens with a riprimand of the Corinthian Christians dividing over who is their "leader" (savior?). Some of them were choosing to claim a man as their leader instead of Jesus Christ.

The Galatians (Galatians 1:6-10)are warned against following any other Gospel than that which was originally given.

My question and challenge is:
How can we build unity in our churches?

I'm not seeking uniformity. That is not good, nor is it Scriptural. However, if we could focus on what we have in common and build on that, we could spend less time arguing or fighting over things that will not matter in eternity and spend more time witnessing to the world about the power of God's love to change people's lives for the better.

We must establish that any unity must be based on the Bible as the final authority in matters of faith and practice. Compromising Scripture in an attempt to pacify those who hold a lower view of God's Word will only weaken and destroy.

What do you say? How can we build unity in our churches?



MrFribbles -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/6/2008 9:15:02 PM)

quote:

We must establish that any unity must be based on the Bible as the final authority in matters of faith and practice. Compromising Scripture in an attempt to pacify those who hold a lower view of God's Word will only weaken and destroy.


I think this is key. However, to answer your question, I think another essential element to building unity is discerning what is really going against Scripture's teaching, and what is merely going against our particular denomination's interpretation.
There are some things worth fighting for. If someone comes to me and says Christ did not come in the flesh, well, that's worth fighting for. If someone comes to me and says the Trinity is not true, then that is worth fighting for. If someone comes to me and says that salvation is through anything but grace by faith through Christ, etc., etc.
But at the same time, if someone comes to me and says they believe in speaking in tongues (which, personally, I do not), I will disagree with them, but I won't make a big deal out of it. Same thing if I meet a preterist, or a post-millennialist, or an old-earth creationist. Do I agree with these things? No. But I know that ultimately, if they are trusting in Christ alone for their salvation, then the people who hold these views are my brothers and sisters in Christ, and God demands that I love them. Personally, I'm happy to oblige.
So, to sum up, I would say, to help build unity, don't sweat the small stuff.



colliefan -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/6/2008 9:35:57 PM)

A realization that while there may be many worship styles and ways of presenting the message; the message must remain the same. That we are not out to get converts, but to produce disciples. That while we are here, we are to be salt/light in a dark and dying world. That it is about glorifying God and enjoying Him forever.



gmc4Jesus -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 12:53:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
That we are not out to get converts, but to produce disciples.


Do you mean that we are not out to proselytize? I would agree. We don't need to worry about those who already believe in Jesus. Our mission and message is to reach the lost and disciple the saved to maturity. We should not waste our time trying to make someone from one denomination become one from our denomination.

Mr. Fribbles, Thank you for your comments. What things can we build on and build unity?



MrFribbles -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 1:02:38 AM)

quote:

What things can we build on and build unity?


There are two things I would really love to see happen in the Church.
1, more inter-church cooperation. There are churches all over the place where I'm from, but for the most part, whenever a church does something, it's usually a solo mission. I think it would be great if we saw, say, Methodists and Baptists working side by side to feed the homeless, or the local Presbyterians helping the Anglicans evangelize in the inner city. You know, inter-denominational service.
2, more racial unity. I've met a lot of people who claim to be part of a multi-racial church, but usually when I attend their congregations, it's predominately one race with a few token members of some other races. I would love to see a church that was truly inter-racial, not ignoring the differences between race, but recognizing and celebrating them each week!
Anyway, those are just some thoughts on the local-church level.



davelinde -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 9:47:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus

My question and challenge is:
How can we build unity in our churches?

...not ...uniformity. ... less time arguing or fighting over things that will not matter in eternity


So I would say that unity is built between people and strengthened by relationships. When the relationship is of more value than the issue that divides, things fall into place. As I consider others more important than myself and become willing to set aside my desires for the good of others unity is built.

For me that means letting go of my desire to "be right", to get vindication or win a debate. That does not mean I wouldn't argue something strenuously... it means I attempt to keep my motives in check.

Gossip is one of the biggest unity busters I've ever seen. Teach against it vigorously.

Unity builds as all grow in maturity and each does their part. This means that the emphasis is on church membership as in being a member, a part, belonging, having a fit with those with whom you worship and serve. Membership is NOT about being a consumer of church programs and enjoying the rights and privileges of membership.

Those are my first reactions.



THEREDCAPE -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 10:59:30 AM)

Unity hinges on:
agreement in the basics tenets of the faith
swift removal of heretics from the pulpits
The laity having a working knowledge of apologetics
False teachings NOT being tolerated in the church..whether in Sunday school classes, retreats, workshops, etc.

Most disunity I see circles around a lack of knowledge of scripture, ignorance in scripture interpretation, and a steady diet of televangelists.



earthless -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 11:22:29 AM)

Great post, redcape.



THEREDCAPE -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 1:05:53 PM)

Thanks, Earthless.

False teachings eventually dash the faith of those who are ill prepared Biblcally to evaluate them.
Arguments and broken relationships happen in the body of Christ when people become enamored with the pearly teeth and big hair parading through their televisions.



rcjames -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 2:28:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THEREDCAPE

Unity hinges on:
agreement in the basics tenets of the faith
swift removal of heretics from the pulpits
The laity having a working knowledge of apologetics
False teachings NOT being tolerated in the church..whether in Sunday school classes, retreats, workshops, etc.


I mostly agree with this, but don't forget to swiftly remove divisive folks from the pews also.

(Tit 3:10) As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,

In our Church we have unity, because we agree doctrinally on all things salvic, and on non-salvic issues we disagree with respect.

We have some folks that believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and many who pray in tongues. We also have many who do not, but there is not division, not even in thes most divisive of issues for we all can read Scripture;

(1Co 14:39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

(1Co 14:40) Let all things be done decently and in order.

On non-doctrinal issues the whole body agree we are to help a brother or sister in need and they all, and I mean, all do that.

Thanks
RC



timf -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 2:35:49 PM)

What would build unity in our churches?

Truth and humility



THEREDCAPE -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 4:09:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames


I mostly agree with this, but don't forget to swiftly remove divisive folks from the pews also.

(Tit 3:10) As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,

In our Church we have unity, because we agree doctrinally on all things salvic, and on non-salvic issues we disagree with respect.

We have some folks that believe in the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and many who pray in tongues. We also have many who do not, but there is not division, not even in thes most divisive of issues for we all can read Scripture;

(1Co 14:39) Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

(1Co 14:40) Let all things be done decently and in order.

On non-doctrinal issues the whole body agree we are to help a brother or sister in need and they all, and I mean, all do that.

Thanks
RC


I agree with you. Heretics sit in the pews as well, and seep poison.



GroupW -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 4:17:19 PM)

It's not just the heretics that sew division. Sometimes they're the EASIEST to please ;)



blue1914 -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 4:36:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timf

What would build unity in our churches?

Truth and humility


How TRUE this is-now the question-how quickly will that come (and will we see it before the return)?



colliefan -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/7/2008 9:29:31 PM)

The spiritual authority of The Anglican Mission in the Americas comes the Episcopal Churches of Rwanda and South East Asia. From a racial standpoint they are different from us, but we share the same heart to reach the world for Christ.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 3:22:20 AM)

In answer to the OP's question: What can we do to build unity in our churches?

How about the return of Christ? Unfortunately, the deep-seated hold of denominationalism is paralyzing the church. Until we all figure out what it truly means to be meek and humble, unity is little more than a pipe dream. Right now the pattern is that we attend churches or denominations until we have a disagreement, and then we break off to find a new church or denomination... and if one can't be found, we run off and start one. When there were only 120 disciples in the city of Jerusalem, there was such unity in the church that the room shook... people who sinned against the Holy Spirit without repentence died in church... and 3000 people would be added to the church overnight. It the church was half as desperate for revival as many claim to be, they should be seeking the same kind of unity that those 120 disciples had. To put it mathmatically... Meekness + Humility = Unity; Unity = Power + Revival; Meekness + Humility = Power + Revival. It's a "formula" that preaches well, but it's a bear to live out.

Adam



abraxas -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 7:28:42 AM)

A return to theocracy--one official state church, with all others criminalized. Beyond that I don't think it's possible.

At the heart of the problem for Christians is the belief that the Bible can and should be regarded as the final authority on doctrine. That naive idealism opens the doors to anyone to presume that they are the ones correctly interpreting "what the Bible says" with a slew of others begging to differ and possibly even branding one another 'heretic'.

So, when the State and religious authority parted ways (which surely was a good thing!), the divisions were inevitable.

Quite a bit of the postmodern movement came about due to the ever-branching religious denominations and their never-ending battle over Biblical Truth.



sue244 -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 10:17:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GroupW

It's not just the heretics that sew division. Sometimes they're the EASIEST to please ;)


Yep just follow them blindly and they are happy.

If we want to see true unity restored we must hold onto Truth.
not very popular though when the contempoary definintiona of unity is us all holding hands together and singing kumbyah regardless of major doctrinal differences.



GroupW -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 11:54:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sue244

quote:

ORIGINAL: GroupW

It's not just the heretics that sew division. Sometimes they're the EASIEST to please ;)


Yep just follow them blindly and they are happy.

If we want to see true unity restored we must hold onto Truth.
not very popular though when the contempoary definintiona of unity is us all holding hands together and singing kumbyah regardless of major doctrinal differences.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, charity. There is often a certain dogmatism that follows some of the non-essentials and leads to a certain lack of charity between both denominations as well as between individuals.

I really wish we could find a body of essentials to agree on and get on with the business of displaying charity.

One of the big reasons the early church grew as fast as it did was the reputation of Christians for a strong sense of charity a) within the body and b) between the church and those outside the church most in need.

I'd like to see us recover some of that reputation. In my experience, it's not how the church is known today.

Preaching Truth is only half the battle. I can preach Truth all day long, but if charity is not abundantly visible, Paul writes that I'm merely making noise.

BT



JesKlu -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 12:15:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin

In answer to the OP's question: What can we do to build unity in our churches?

How about the return of Christ? Unfortunately, the deep-seated hold of denominationalism is paralyzing the church. Until we all figure out what it truly means to be meek and humble, unity is little more than a pipe dream. Right now the pattern is that we attend churches or denominations until we have a disagreement, and then we break off to find a new church or denomination... and if one can't be found, we run off and start one. When there were only 120 disciples in the city of Jerusalem, there was such unity in the church that the room shook... people who sinned against the Holy Spirit without repentence died in church... and 3000 people would be added to the church overnight. It the church was half as desperate for revival as many claim to be, they should be seeking the same kind of unity that those 120 disciples had. To put it mathmatically... Meekness + Humility = Unity; Unity = Power + Revival; Meekness + Humility = Power + Revival. It's a "formula" that preaches well, but it's a bear to live out.

Adam


I was going to say the same thing, when Christ comes again. There's so much disunity right now, that I don't think it is going to be fixed until the coming of Christ.

I'm not trying to be skeptical, but only realistic.

But I think the saying of Augustine goes. "In essentials, unity; In non-essentials, liberty; in All things; charity."

Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica



notmycity -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 2:54:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gmc4Jesus

Jesus prayed in John 17:20-23: "...that they may all be one just as He and the Father are one..."


Don’t forget, Jesus also prayed this in the same prayer...

John 17:17-19
17 SANCTIFY THEM THROUGH THY TRUTH: THY WORD IS TRUTH.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, THAT THEY ALSO MIGHT BE SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE TRUTH.

“What would build unity in our churches?”

For the remnant who truly believe, only prayerful growing in God’s Word alone builds true unity - period. (Again, please see John 17:17-19)

For many, ......the “man of sin ....., the son of perdition” will build unity in the apostate churches under the guise of Christianity, and it will be the greatest mass deception of all time. It has already begun and is quickly ramping up to the end of days. Praise God!



earthless -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 3:09:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GroupW

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, charity. There is often a certain dogmatism that follows some of the non-essentials and leads to a certain lack of charity between both denominations as well as between individuals.

I really wish we could find a body of essentials to agree on and get on with the business of displaying charity.

One of the big reasons the early church grew as fast as it did was the reputation of Christians for a strong sense of charity a) within the body and b) between the church and those outside the church most in need.

I'd like to see us recover some of that reputation. In my experience, it's not how the church is known today.

Preaching Truth is only half the battle. I can preach Truth all day long, but if charity is not abundantly visible, Paul writes that I'm merely making noise.

BT


BT,

Thank you for your post above, it has blessed me today.



GroupW -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 3:19:58 PM)

Thanks. Some of that came from a book by a sociologist named Stark on the growth of pattern of the early christian church. Not exactly an evangelical christian but a fascinating read even when he says things I don't necessarily agree with.



figmentPez -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 6:20:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GroupW

I really wish we could find a body of essentials to agree on and get on with the business of displaying charity.


Ahem, and er, Ahem.

Those would be a good place to start. Admittedly a clause in the second was the reason for one of the earliest major splits in Christianity, but there's still a fairly good start there.

One thing I'd like to note about these early creeds, and others, is that they focus on God. On the revealed nature of the LORD, as found in scripture. I've said this before in another thread, but I'm happy to say it again. The most important part of Christian doctrine is God, and who we believe Him to be. What we believe about us humans, how we're supposed to act, how we're supposed to organize, how we're to relate to each other, etc, all that is secondary to seeking the LORD and who He has revealed Himself to be.

Sadly, there are many Christians (and "christians") who like to claim that God isn't clear about Himself, and so we just have to focus on us instead. I've heard many times, no in so many words, that we can't understand God, so we don't have to worry about that, and should just focus on doing works. The problem with this, is that all that God instructs us to do is based on our love of Him! How can we know how to love God with all that we have, if we do not know who HE IS?



GroupW -> RE: What would build unity in our churches? (5/8/2008 6:59:32 PM)

Yo' figment.

If we could just keep it to those items I'd be happy as a clam.



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