How Important is a Sanctuary? (Full Version)

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thisistheday -> How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 12:01:06 PM)

About ten years ago our congregation moved into a new building. The original plan was to have a gym/multipurpose type room, and a sanctuary. Due to costs we ended up not building the sanctuary, and now use the multipurpose type room as our worship center. I doubt that space will ever be used as a gym due to some modifications made; it is working fine as a place to worship, as well as many other things.

Now that the original building is paid for, there is interest in moving onto phase 2 of the building program. But should that be a sanctuary? Bigger classrooms (the children's program is in need of this)? Something else? Stay debt free and use our money elsewhere? Those are the questions being asked.

Comments on anything I've posted are fine. What I'm most curious about is why a traditional sanctuary is so important to some. We have a place to worship.

After I get some initial reactions I may post more of the comments made at the "open forum" we had Sunday.

Dee



earthless -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 12:03:29 PM)

I guess I am one of those rare young guys that is traditional in their beliefs - I prefer a church to have a sanctuary, an established location that is set apart for the community worship of God, to preach His Word, etc..



Calea37 -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 1:29:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

I guess I am one of those rare young guys that is traditional in their beliefs - I prefer a church to have a sanctuary, an established location that is set apart for the community worship of God, to preach His Word, etc..


Me too...(except for that being a guy part)



rcjames -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 2:15:47 PM)

I particularly like a Sanctuary, because it seems as a place of quiet, refuge, and solace when not having services.

We do not lock our building nor the Sanctuary and it is always open for folks to come and meditate, pray, relax, or have a quiet conversation with another Believer or two.

I do not hold that it is a special Holy place, just a place of quiet and refuge for any that would come.

Thanks
RC



Consecrated2God -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 2:22:31 PM)

Hi, Dee,

Personally, I'd be fine with using a gym as a place of worship and moving on to Sunday School rooms if that was what was needed. I was raised in a church that didn't have a building for many years. We met at the YMCA for a few years, and then a school, and so I never saw a sactuary as being terribly important. What was important was people coming together for worship. We are the church. A building is just a place for us to meet. After all, the early Christians met in catacombs.

I do think sactuaries are nice to have, but I think it's good to contruct them so they can be used for more than just traditional church services. Our old church had chairs instead of pews in their sanctuary, so they can put up tables and chairs for the dinner theatre or sweetheart banquets or other special occasions. It was a multipurpose room. I thought it was a really great set-up.



Lurker -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 2:36:35 PM)

Whoa! I agree with Earthless and RCJames? :D

Count me as a vote for having a dedicated sanctuary. I like having a particularly defined place that is set aside specifically to worship God in prayer.



Memaw. -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 2:46:00 PM)

quote:

Stay debt free and use our money elsewhere?


I think this is the best choice.
When we put the money to use in the community (food banks, clothing ministry, etc) then we are really being Jesus' hands and feet.

A sanctuary and classrooms are nice to have and to look at, but putting food in someones' stomach and clothes on their back is how we really show them who Jesus is.


Just my opinion.



stampinlady -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 3:15:48 PM)

quote:

Stay debt free


Imo, this is where the problem lies. I think biblical history shows that some sort of wroship center was used and in that light I don't see anything wrong with spending money to biuld a sanctuary/worship center. I have a friend who belongs to a branch of the Boston Church of God, which I've been told is a cult and they rent space because they don't believe in spending the money on a church building. To me, what's the differance? I don't think churches should go into debt for a building, but many do.



JimboFletch -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 3:21:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

Stay debt free


Imo, this is where the problem lies. I think biblical history shows that some sort of wroship center was used and in that light I don't see anything wrong with spending money to biuld a sanctuary/worship center. I have a friend who belongs to a branch of the Boston Church of God, which I've been told is a cult and they rent space because they don't believe in spending the money on a church building. To me, what's the differance? I don't think churches should go into debt for a building, but many do.

I agree. Also, with the economy like it is, this may be a very bad time to go into debt for anything.



Liveloved -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 4:05:10 PM)

Personally, I don't understand our 'needs' regarding how we do church. The NT church met in homes. It was smaller gatherings of people. No trappings were necessary. Acts 2:42 is the pattern for church and it's very simple. "And they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." Anytime, anywhere.

We've let our culture dictate how we do church. And it is so hard to get the culture out of our minds, the way we think about things. That is the work of God, the Holy Spirit, in us. He wants to set us free from our ways of thinking and doing. But first we must be willing to come into the liberty the Spirit desires.

Most aren't. . .willing. Those are my thoughts.



JimboFletch -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 4:13:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Liveloved

Personally, I don't understand our 'needs' regarding how we do church. The NT church met in homes. It was smaller gatherings of people. No trappings were necessary. Acts 2:42 is the pattern for church and it's very simple. "And they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." Anytime, anywhere.

We've let our culture dictate how we do church. And it is so hard to get the culture out of our minds, the way we think about things. That is the work of God, the Holy Spirit, in us. He wants to set us free from our ways of thinking and doing. But first we must be willing to come into the liberty the Spirit desires.

Most aren't. . .willing. Those are my thoughts.

I know, nobody has ever given a moments thought to any of that...

Didja also know that early Christians went to the Temple and met in synagogues? Really. Just like Jesus - who, BTW, never condemned meeting in a building made for the purpose of worship, praise, prayer, and study. Really.



ames01 -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 4:24:19 PM)

quote:

When we put the money to use in the community (food banks, clothing ministry, etc) then we are really being Jesus' hands and feet.


I agree with what Memaw said above. There is certainly nothing wrong with having a sanctuary, and it can be nice for a lot of the reasons already mentioned. However, I think we're living in a time when it's critical for the church to reach out to those around us and point them to Jesus. In your church's situation, since you do already have an existing worship center, you may be able to make a greater impact by using the money for outreach, missions, etc. than by building a new sanctuary.



thisistheday -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 5:07:05 PM)

Thanks all!

The room where we currently meet has high ceilings, lighting that was put in when we used to do a big Easter production, a stage, a sound booth in the back of the sanctuary, and padded chairs that can be stacked. So we definitely do have a worship center. The kitchen is behind the worship center. We also have a room behind the worship center with one way glass so parents and speakers so parents can go watch and listen to the service with their little ones if necessary. We have two services, but the WC is big enough for all if a combined service is done. So it's a pretty good setup. I feel like we have our sanctuary.

Here is a picture of the room being used for our Wed. night program. You're seeing the backdrop that is put up and taken down weekly.

The room is also used for Wednesday nights so the stage for their production has to be taken up and down weekly. MOPS uses it, and dinners after church are done there. Sometimes we have tables and chairs in the WC instead of just chairs, such as when there will be a meal after the service. So it serves as our fellowship hall as well.

Reasons given for needing a dedicated sanctuary include wear and tear on the tables and chairs from having to set them up and take them down as well as the labor needed to do so, and needing a better place to have a wedding since the reception takes place in the same room as the wedding was just held. It was said that we should meet the needs of the elders of our church, as they've been waiting for a sanctuary for a long time. Someone asked if we'd promised God a sanctuary when we started the building program, because if we did we'd better build it, and maybe that's why things aren't going the way we want.

If we had a fellowship hall my hope is that the tables and chairs would still be up and down as that space was used for different things. That's how it was at the old church.

I believe the new sanctuary space would have immovable pews and would only be used for that one purpose. I can't justify spending a million or so dollars on such a project for reasons Kimmie, Jimbo, Liveloved, Ames, and Deb mentioned.

I'm the oddball that thinks we should have all money in hand before we start anything.

I like our WC precisely because it can be used for so many different things.

Our church is not growing at the present time either, which is a factor.

The current need I see is for larger classrooms/spaces. We have lots of small classrooms, but not enough for when larger groups meet.

Dee



Memaw. -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 5:59:02 PM)

quote:

It was said that we should meet the needs of the elders of our church, as they've been waiting for a sanctuary for a long time.


Dee,
This stood out at me.
If your church is looking inward to meet the needs of people, then they have blinders on.
It becomes a "me-ism", what about me type of thing.

Someone else gets their skivvies in a bunch because the elders got a sanctuary and what about this program or what about this?

Church is for the fellowship of the believers, but the believers should be taking their fruit and planting it outside the walls and not within.


Just my thoughts again.[:)]



1love1God1way -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 7:01:29 PM)

I prefer sanctuaries.

They have altars.

There is just something powerful about going up to an altar and kneeling before your king.

It just feels more awkward in a gym.



thisistheday -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/7/2008 9:41:14 PM)

Where we worship doesn't feel like a gym at all Ben. We have ceiling tiles, nicely painted walls, carpet, a big cross on the wall up front, etc. You can look at the pic in my link in post 13. They are not in the pics, but we do have alters up front on Sunday morning. They are there much of the week as well.

For those that think a sanctuary is important, is it worth it for a church to go into debt for? Under what circumstances and at what cost? We already have a nice place to worship, that isn't the issue. Would you still want a dedicated sanctuary?

I agree Kimmie. Remember this was just one person's comment. Actually from someone I respect, but I think her economic reality is much different than mine. I think she's also the person who wants a sanctuary so we can have a steeple.

There are also people who think we should remain basically as we are or find space away from the church to do ministry, and others who think we should build space for the children and youth.

It was also mentioned that a few years ago some people had some money set aside that they'd donate if our church ever decided to build a sanctuary. That money may still be out there. I found that interesting.

Dee



Anisavta -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/8/2008 1:45:52 AM)

I worship at a Messianic Synagogue.
We lease a building in a business strip and so our sanctuary is a large room where we have our services and also our fellowship time. After the service the chairs are moved and the tables go up so we can have Oneg Shabbat ( food and fellowship). But even then it is a place of worship for us. We have a large ark in the front where we keep our Torah scroll and everyone knows that is a very Holy thing. The children know this room is a sanctuary even when the tables are up and parents teach the children to be respectful. If the kids want to roughhouse and get roudy they go outside.



Consecrated2God -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/8/2008 7:32:58 AM)

It sounds like your worship room is really nice, Dee. [:)]

I think it would be best in your situation to set aside a portion of your money for a building fund, and let it accumulate for awhile while you pray about how to use it. I dislike church debt, too--I've seen churches that build on a huge sanctuary and then attendance dips, and with it tithes, and all of a sudden they are in a bind. They have to cut staff or programs because they can't afford them, which makes more people mad and they leave too. It's a viscious cycle, one that started because they strapped themselves with debt. Make room in your budget for helping others, too. You can do both. Maybe in ten years you'll know better what to do with the money you've saved.



JimboFletch -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/8/2008 8:02:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

I prefer sanctuaries.

They have altars.

There is just something powerful about going up to an altar and kneeling before your king.

It just feels more awkward in a gym.

Ben, you have to remember that not all churches have altars, though most where I've been a member did. I'm not sure one could find genuine NT support for having one, but praying at a bench in front of the congregation should not one's prayers more genuine or more earnest than just on the floor in front of your seat, sitting in it, or standing in front of it.



SonInMe1 -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/8/2008 10:37:50 AM)

I believe the sanctuary to be a place we respect as we gather to worship the Lord.

What the sanctuary is, isn't important. I go to an affluent church and they have a nice big building with all the bells and whistles...its still as much a sanctuary as the store front church with 400 square feet of space.

Its more about God than the building.



Liveloved -> RE: How Important is a Sanctuary? (5/8/2008 10:54:27 AM)

quote:

But even then it is a place of worship for us.


Yes. Even then. Our place of worship is within. We are the dwelling places of God. So wherever we gather is His gathering place. It can be worshipful if we are aware, alive, present to Him. And even the children know. Or is it especially the children know. Amen and amen.



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