RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (Full Version)

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lightshineon -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 10:58:09 AM)

TinkerBelle sorry if you think I am stupid, but I know that I have an angry, bullied child, and playing destructive violent games are not for her, it fuels her rage.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

There are some more naive and easily influenced kids out there, more than others. And parents need to be aware of that and take appropriate steps.


It's all a matter of observation and perception. You just have to see how your child is with certain influences and adjust accordingly.

quote:

Neither my sister or me were censored as kids and we turned out better (as bad as that sounds) than all the other church kids around us that ended rebelling BIG time - getting into drugs, not in the faith, unwed-pregnancies, running away, getting into gangs, drug dealing, etc..

I had no boundries growing up and I am a perfect example of how no boundries AND lack of proper teaching can screw a kid up. By the time my parents decided to get into church I was at the age where I knew everything and my parents were morons. I try to do things differently...I'm very strict on somethings, and other things I'm not. Again, it's a balance.

quote:

This thread reminds me of the current book I am reading - it is John Stossell's (from 20/20) book where he busts media perpetuated myths, and one of the topics he discusses is about video games and people's claims that it is related to school violence, etc..

We can pin this back on retired general Grossman's book where he claims video games train kids to be killers.

Yet none of his claims were substantiated by any actual research or any statistics. His entire book was based on emotional, rather than logical appeal.

And we live in a time when some Christians love going off of emotion and not truth, not facts.

John Stossel also points out that he flat out made up certain "facts", such as the military using games like Quake to desensitize soldiers to violence and killing. Stossel's calls to the military yielded denials of Grossman's claim.

He then goes on to point out that all the subsequent lawmakers, authors, etc against video games all cite Grossman as a source despite the fact that he is not an authority on the subject, nor has he done any actual research. He then finishes by saying what a lot of us have been - let parents decide, not the government.

*sigh* I love when you make sense. Gives me all sorts of warm and fuzzies. [:)]

I abhor when people say, "Look at the Columbine kids...they played video games..." A LOT of kids play video games. Don't assume that ALL kids are going to be violent because of a choice few. That's like saying that women are going to cheat on their husbands and sleep around because of 'Desperate Housewives' or that people are going to jump off buildings just to see if they can fly because of 'Heroes'.



McFatty -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 11:00:25 AM)

Don't get me wrong... I am very glad for the ESRB rating system on games. GTA4 has an age rating and it ought to be followed. Once you're at that age (I think it's 18, but I'm not sure), you are able to take responsibility for your own actions.



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 11:44:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

TinkerBelle sorry if you think I am stupid, but I know that I have an angry, bullied child, and playing destructive violent games are not for her, it fuels her rage.

I apologise for any misunderstanding but I don't think I ever said that you were 'stupid'.

There is a difference between people who say, "All people who play video games will be violent." and saying, "I know my child has violent tendencies and out of her best interest I as her parent will refrain from adding unnecessary fuel to that tendency." which I assume you are saying, correct?

I will disagree vehemently with the first statement and applaud the second.



SoldierInGodsArmy -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 11:51:23 AM)

I really feel that those in this thread who support the playing in these disgusting games are simply defending them because they enjoy playing them.

I understand that you don't go commit crimes after playing these games, but some may. Here are a few links that talk about the effects that video games have on you.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8449-violent-video-games-alter-brains-response-to-violence.html

http://culturalpolicy.uchicago.edu/conf2001/papers/goldstein.html

Not only that but a while ago I read an article about a boy who shot two police officers and after being caught exclaimed,"Life is like a video game." I apologize for not finding a link, it was somewhere at CNN.com

Not only that, but your mentality during playtime of GTA 4 is kill... steal..... steal.... kill.... kill... You have committed these sins in your heart. Your playing a game were you simulate actions that our God has said to not do. Ask yourselves, does that sound right? Your not thinking correctly if you think these games are ok in Gods eyes.

It is saddening to me that on a christian site there are so many who play this disgusting game.



earthless -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 11:53:25 AM)

Soldier,

Have you ever even played the game? Seriously asking... because it would be a bit odd to rely on hearsay.

Also, the running theme in your posts are that this and other "evil" things should be outright banned or censored. What else do you feel should be banned and or censored and what do you base this on?



stellaluna -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 12:03:14 PM)

I think there's a reason video games are rated and I support that.

I don't have children, but like lightshineon said, I do know some kids who become incredibly hyperactive--if not violent--after playing violent video games. I've observed that it usually happens in younger kids, not teenagers. Some parents simply don't care what games their kids play and then can't make the correlation between violent, age-inappropriate games and inappropriate behavior.

I have played GTA and it was actually pretty fun and rather difficult. I no longer let myself play it, though, because I enjoyed it a little too much. [8|]



SoldierInGodsArmy -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 12:07:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Soldier,

Have you ever even played the game? Seriously asking... because it would be a bit odd to rely on hearsay.


I looked at videos on youtube.com after hearing about it.


quote:

Also, the running theme in your posts are that this and other "evil" things should be outright banned or censored.


When and where did I say I wanted this censored? I simply said I would love to see copies of this game destroyed.

quote:

What else do you feel should be banned and or censored and what do you base this on?


A lot you seem to think that I am trying to say every crime or violent incedent committed by our youth can be attributed to the violent video games today. I really not, though I think that games can increase aggressive behaviors and studies have suggested this.

Also, I don't think with a right mind you could say that this garbage is ok in Gods eyes. Pornography is JUST entertainment targetted toward older audiences, does that make it ok for a Christian to watch in any circumstance? No sir.

Anyways... I'm off to work.



ik3900 -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 12:21:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoldierInGodsArmy

I really feel that those in this thread who support the playing in these disgusting games are simply defending them because they enjoy playing them.

I understand that you don't go commit crimes after playing these games, but some may. Here are a few links that talk about the effects that video games have on you.


I don't dissagree with you that some unstable or impressionable people may be negatively influenced by games like GTA 4. My problem with what you are suggesting is that it can be applied to almost anything. Another example is fashion. A small number of people are obviously so negatively influenced by pictures of models that they starve themselves to death. That doesn't mean that nobody should read fashion magazines though.

Its all about personal responsibility.

(Disclaimer: I'm not a Christian)



earthless -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 12:21:55 PM)

You really didn't answer my questions. Would you like me to reword them?



SoldierInGodsArmy -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 12:35:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

You really didn't answer my questions. Would you like me to reword them?


I haven't played it.

quote:

Also, the running theme in your posts are that this and other "evil" things should be outright banned or censored. What else do you feel should be banned and or censored and what do you base this on?


I assume you are refering to the bible (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyways I'll be back later I really must go.

Toodleloo

~SIGA~



earthless -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 12:46:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoldierInGodsArmy


I haven't played it.


No, I meant as in my questions related to the running theme of your posts in this thread? That anything you deem to be evil or bad is to be burned, etc... I want to know how you would quantify that or determine what is burned and what is not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoldierInGodsArmy

quote:

Also, the running theme in your posts are that this and other "evil" things should be outright banned or censored. What else do you feel should be banned and or censored and what do you base this on?


I assume you are refering to the bible (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyways I'll be back later I really must go.

Toodleloo

~SIGA~


So you're saying that the Bible should be the basis for what is burned and what is not? What country do you live in? Because the country I live in (the United States of America) is not a theocracy.



McFatty -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 3:07:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoldierInGodsArmy

I really feel that those in this thread who support the playing in these disgusting games are simply defending them because they enjoy playing them.

I understand that you don't go commit crimes after playing these games, but some may. Here are a few links that talk about the effects that video games have on you.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8449-violent-video-games-alter-brains-response-to-violence.html

http://culturalpolicy.uchicago.edu/conf2001/papers/goldstein.html

Not only that but a while ago I read an article about a boy who shot two police officers and after being caught exclaimed,"Life is like a video game." I apologize for not finding a link, it was somewhere at CNN.com

Not only that, but your mentality during playtime of GTA 4 is kill... steal..... steal.... kill.... kill... You have committed these sins in your heart. Your playing a game were you simulate actions that our God has said to not do. Ask yourselves, does that sound right? Your not thinking correctly if you think these games are ok in Gods eyes.

It is saddening to me that on a christian site there are so many who play this disgusting game.


Killing pixels is not murder in the heart. It's called fiction, and there's absolutely no difference, in my mind and in my heart, between playing a fictional video game and reading a fictional book containing the same content, or watching a fictional movie. Have you ever watched one of those disgusting movies?



lightshineon -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 4:23:10 PM)

Sorry Tink it is woman mood, you get my drift. My daughter, is bullied and suffers anger, why she is homeschooled next year. She is very sweet and quite in class, but is a hidden rage, we are praying through.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

TinkerBelle sorry if you think I am stupid, but I know that I have an angry, bullied child, and playing destructive violent games are not for her, it fuels her rage.

I apologise for any misunderstanding but I don't think I ever said that you were 'stupid'.

There is a difference between people who say, "All people who play video games will be violent." and saying, "I know my child has violent tendencies and out of her best interest I as her parent will refrain from adding unnecessary fuel to that tendency." which I assume you are saying, correct?

I will disagree vehemently with the first statement and applaud the second.



lightshineon -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 4:44:40 PM)

I am not judging anyone for playing anything, it is not my place. It would be wrong for me, I do not watch movies or shows with profanity ( or very limited, mild), cannot stand a theif, a long story from college. I myself am not smart enough to play games except " wheel of fortune" "family fued" tried once to play kickboxing with an onion, it yawned, laid on its side. I am serious. I also have three girls, and to see women portrayed as sluts is insulting to me. My girls play quitar hero, twilight princess, The dancing one. I need to look at thier DS, and see what they are playing, the oldest does not play.



angie4God -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 8:25:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty


Killing pixels is not murder in the heart. It's called fiction, and there's absolutely no difference, in my mind and in my heart, between playing a fictional video game and reading a fictional book containing the same content, or watching a fictional movie. Have you ever watched one of those disgusting movies?


This made me think of something though. I guess the virtual technology of pc game could be used as a reason to make it ok. But what if there was a kind of game where people role played these kind of scenerios. Kind of like paintball or something. Where you able to play out scenerios like robbing, killing and such where it was all fantasy and no one really gets hurt. Would it be the same thing? The medium is different though but it's the same concept.

I guess the issue with me is no matter how it's done, with this video game your still acting out situations whether, virtual or not, that don't seem God honoring. Shouldn't we be renewing our mind and not conforming to the worlds actions ? Not allowing it to think on and act on these things whether real or not?



SonInMe1 -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 9:33:54 PM)

I would think a holy spirit indwellt person would be very uncomfortable with some aspects of this game.

The world does as the world does.



SoldierInGodsArmy -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/9/2008 9:50:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoldierInGodsArmy


I haven't played it.


No, I meant as in my questions related to the running theme of your posts in this thread? That anything you deem to be evil or bad is to be burned, etc... I want to know how you would quantify that or determine what is burned and what is not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoldierInGodsArmy

quote:

Also, the running theme in your posts are that this and other "evil" things should be outright banned or censored. What else do you feel should be banned and or censored and what do you base this on?


I assume you are refering to the bible (correct me if I'm wrong). Anyways I'll be back later I really must go.

Toodleloo

~SIGA~


So you're saying that the Bible should be the basis for what is burned and what is not? What country do you live in? Because the country I live in (the United States of America) is not a theocracy.


You're really just distracting people from my main point which is that the game is immoral and should not be played by Christians.


quote:

ORIGINAL: angie4God

quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty


Killing pixels is not murder in the heart. It's called fiction, and there's absolutely no difference, in my mind and in my heart, between playing a fictional video game and reading a fictional book containing the same content, or watching a fictional movie. Have you ever watched one of those disgusting movies?


This made me think of something though. I guess the virtual technology of pc game could be used as a reason to make it ok. But what if there was a kind of game where people role played these kind of scenerios. Kind of like paintball or something. Where you able to play out scenerios like robbing, killing and such where it was all fantasy and no one really gets hurt. Would it be the same thing? The medium is different though but it's the same concept.

I guess the issue with me is no matter how it's done, with this video game your still acting out situations whether, virtual or not, that don't seem God honoring. Shouldn't we be renewing our mind and not conforming to the worlds actions ? Not allowing it to think on and act on these things whether real or not?


Great post.

What would you say to God himself? "It's just a fictional simulation of killing and stealing, I wasn't actually doing it." I don't think God would agree.



McFatty -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/10/2008 4:36:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: angie4God

quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty


Killing pixels is not murder in the heart. It's called fiction, and there's absolutely no difference, in my mind and in my heart, between playing a fictional video game and reading a fictional book containing the same content, or watching a fictional movie. Have you ever watched one of those disgusting movies?


This made me think of something though. I guess the virtual technology of pc game could be used as a reason to make it ok. But what if there was a kind of game where people role played these kind of scenerios. Kind of like paintball or something. Where you able to play out scenerios like robbing, killing and such where it was all fantasy and no one really gets hurt. Would it be the same thing? The medium is different though but it's the same concept.

I guess the issue with me is no matter how it's done, with this video game your still acting out situations whether, virtual or not, that don't seem God honoring. Shouldn't we be renewing our mind and not conforming to the worlds actions ? Not allowing it to think on and act on these things whether real or not?


I disagree that doing something the world also happens to do is inherently conforming. The world happens to use Axe body wash, and so do I.

As for the game, when I was a kid, I used to play army and cowboys & Indians. We would "kill" each other all morning and then go have lunch. We had our thumbs and forefingers in the shape of guns running around yelling "bang bang". That seems very much like what you're describing, and I have no problem with kids playing games like that.



earthless -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/10/2008 9:38:42 AM)

I just spent an hour watching Tom & Jerry with my son - I guess I am not a Christian because they spent the whole hour trying to kill each other.

I then spent 30 minutes watching He-Man with him - I guess I am REALLY not a Christian and a warlock at that! Because the whole series is based on magic and spells, etc..



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/10/2008 10:51:46 AM)

I have watched friends play each of the GTA series games, and seen what can be done in them. I guess if stealing cars, killing cops, having sex with prostitutes, subsequently killing them, and causing general mayhem and pointless death is something that helps people relax, we ought to be grateful they're doing their best to keep it electronic. I watched a Glenn Beck program on the latest game in the series and he mentioned something quite interesting. He mentioned that in WW2, something like 50% of people when faced with a situation in which they were expected to fire on another man, hesitated. This figure was quite concerning to the commanders of the armed forces, so they began simulating the situation ahead of time, with better and better technology over the years, and commanders credit video-game simulations for the fact that our forces in Iraq had only an 8% hesitation rate when put in a position to fire on another person. Pre-fight conditioning using video-simulation is an integral part of getting soldiers ready to do their jobs. Maybe soldiers have a much harder time separating fiction and reality than the fellow in the next apartment though.



McFatty -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/10/2008 11:26:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YSM


quote:

Killing pixels is not murder in the heart. It's called fiction, and there's absolutely no difference, in my mind and in my heart, between playing a fictional video game and reading a fictional book containing the same content, or watching a fictional movie. Have you ever watched one of those disgusting movies?


There is one key difference, actually. In a videogame like GTA you're role-playing; you are taking on the persona of a criminal, and you literally control this persona and navigate it through a virtual world, where you can murder, steal, et cetera, without fear of real-world consequences. And that's precisely why it's so appealing. You can feed your bloodlust without fear of breaking the law, or hurting other people. But at what cost? You don't think stimulating and toying with these kinds of desires is dangerous? You don't think it damages your sensibilities, morality, and/or spiritually at all?


Does it damage my sensibilities, morality, and/or spirituality? Not at all. I'm fine. I can't speak for everyone, though. I can safely say I do not have "these kinds of desires". God has graciously removed them from my life. I don't have the desire to kill people or have sex with prostitutes. It doesn't exist in my heart. When I was a child, I didn't have the desire to kill my friends, but we still played cowboys and Indians running around yelling "bang bang".

If you guys don't like it, don't play it. However, I think it's wrong to judge any Christian who chooses to play this game as doing a sinful or anti-Christian thing.



lightshineon -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/10/2008 11:46:47 AM)

Soldiers are trained to kill, and yes the use games to help them do the job better. So do those trained to fly aircraft use video to help them be better. My husband is trained to kill the enemy. That is different than the car stealing, game played by children, whose parents do not give a flying fig.



YSM -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/10/2008 11:52:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty
Does it damage my sensibilities, morality, and/or spirituality? Not at all. I'm fine. I can't speak for everyone, though. I can safely say I do not have "these kinds of desires". God has graciously removed them from my life.


As evidenced what you're personally entertained by and attracted to; that's incorrect.

quote:

I don't have the desire to kill people or have sex with prostitutes. It doesn't exist in my heart.


And yet, you practice those acts in a virtual world for entertainment reasons.



McFatty -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/10/2008 12:09:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YSM

quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty
Does it damage my sensibilities, morality, and/or spirituality? Not at all. I'm fine. I can't speak for everyone, though. I can safely say I do not have "these kinds of desires". God has graciously removed them from my life.


As evidenced what you're personally entertained by and attracted to; that's incorrect.

quote:

I don't have the desire to kill people or have sex with prostitutes. It doesn't exist in my heart.


And yet, you practice those acts in a virtual world for entertainment reasons.


Who said all of this? I actually don't play Grand Theft Auto. Don't assume simply because I don't have a problem with it that I play it.

I'll ignore your apparent all-encompassing knowledge-based judgment of my desires for the moment. You have the opinion that I have to desire to literally kill people to play a video game. I disagree. If you feel you need to make personal judgments based on disagreements, that's on you.

Would you kindly explain to me the difference between playing a game like this and kids dressing up like cowboys and shooting cap guns. They've both fictional role-playing situations.



lightshineon -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/10/2008 12:54:05 PM)

The word says work out our own salvation with fear and trembeling. So adults it is your choice. The point of playing cap guns, Tom and Jerry is good ol' context. No prostitute cats on Tom and Jerry, foul words unless it is @*^$#%^^^, Kids hopefully playing shoot out,these days do not, play pimps, and it was not overly violent, and when I was a kid . I a female played with plastic army men, and no sex was involved, they were army men, I did burn them before with matches, but they were carnage, they did not have leave pick up prostitutes, or cuss.
quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty

quote:

ORIGINAL: YSM

quote:

ORIGINAL: McFatty
Does it damage my sensibilities, morality, and/or spirituality? Not at all. I'm fine. I can't speak for everyone, though. I can safely say I do not have "these kinds of desires". God has graciously removed them from my life.


As evidenced what you're personally entertained by and attracted to; that's incorrect.

quote:

I don't have the desire to kill people or have sex with prostitutes. It doesn't exist in my heart.


And yet, you practice those acts in a virtual world for entertainment reasons.


Who said all of this? I actually don't play Grand Theft Auto. Don't assume simply because I don't have a problem with it that I play it.

I'll ignore your apparent all-encompassing knowledge-based judgment of my desires for the moment. You have the opinion that I have to desire to literally kill people to play a video game. I disagree. If you feel you need to make personal judgments based on disagreements, that's on you.

Would you kindly explain to me the difference between playing a game like this and kids dressing up like cowboys and shooting cap guns. They've both fictional role-playing situations.



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