RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (Full Version)

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HisFish -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/21/2008 9:06:32 PM)

Your right, let me add Canadians and the rest of the Western civilized world where being a christian has cost us next to nothing.



earthless -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/21/2008 9:08:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisFish

Your right, let me add Canadians and the rest of the Western civilized world where being a christian has cost us next to nothing.


Good to see you include yourself there.



HisFish -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/21/2008 9:29:56 PM)

quote:

Good to see you include yourself there.


I do indeed, and i stand no where near the back of the line of those who are guilty of having promoted a faith so cheap that Christ is an accessory in our life and not life itself.



NobodyImportant -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 6:17:47 AM)

quote:

I do indeed, and i stand no where near the back of the line of those who are guilty of having promoted a faith so cheap that Christ is an accessory in our life and not life itself.
and yet, his mercy is so meager that video games can undo it.



car2ner -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 6:24:31 AM)

Hmm, I think I ended up in the Snarkiness 101 thread.



HisFish -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 10:47:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NobodyImportant

quote:

I do indeed, and i stand no where near the back of the line of those who are guilty of having promoted a faith so cheap that Christ is an accessory in our life and not life itself.
and yet, his mercy is so meager that video games can undo it.

There are those who presume upon Gods mercy and grace to see how much of the worlds pleasures they can possibly get away with, and then there are others who are so grateful for Christ's sacrifice in they're stead that an unquenchable thirst for holiness and separateness is they're only concern. It all depends on where your focus is; yourself, or Christ.



earthless -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 11:27:37 AM)

Again and again I am reminded of the Apostle Paul.



jstbeliev -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 12:28:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisFish


There are those who presume upon Gods mercy and grace to see how much of the worlds pleasures they can possibly get away with, and then there are others who are so grateful for Christ's sacrifice in they're stead that an unquenchable thirst for holiness and separateness is they're only concern. It all depends on where your focus is; yourself, or Christ.


Didn't want anyone to miss that

God bless,



car2ner -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 12:45:49 PM)

Thanks, those who play questionable video games can't be certain of seeing something the first time around. Green is so much better.

BTW, I do agree with the green statement. We just have trouble seeing where to draw the line and constantly try to draw the line for other people, too.



jstbeliev -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 1:34:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: car2ner

Thanks, those who play questionable video games can't be certain of seeing something the first time around. Green is so much better.

BTW, I do agree with the green statement. We just have trouble seeing where to draw the line and constantly try to draw the line for other people, too.



hmmm....do I detect a little salt with the banter? Green is just a color, my friend, for all people...even gamers [;)]
I am pleased that you agree. If one is grounded in Christ, he has no trouble seeing where the line is for all things are revealed by His Spirit. But for those that are not grounded, have trouble seeing because they try to make equal...the things of the world and the things that are of God.
Let us see what is written: "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness,For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares." Mark "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth." 2 Peter.

putting you always in rememberance is a gentle reminder for us Chrsitians to heed the Word of God, that is to say, lovingly drawing the line for others to "see" more clearly.

God bless,



earthless -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 3:22:21 PM)

So where is the line drawn?

Some only allow their kids to watch Disney movies. Others feel that Disney is an evil homosexual loving company so they have Disney banned in their homes.

Some feel any and all alcoholic drinks are evil and pure sin. Others enjoy a glass of wine or a beer with dinner. Others even use real wine for their communion services. And the first group (ironically enough) don't see a problem with giving their kids Nyquil which has a good amount of alcohol.

Some feel smoking is a sin. Others smoke cigars at home and have no problem nor conviction with it.

Some feel that replacing the F word for Fudge makes it use OK. They also feel they can replace the D word for Darn and feel they are non-cursing good Christians. Yet the intent of their heart is identical to the person that just actually used the word.

Some have a problem eating meat feeling it is a sin to be a carnivore. Others enjoy all that God has given to us for food.

Some have no problem paying heed to false teachers and false prophets on the "Christian" TV and radio airwaves. Listening to those who deny essential Christian doctrine and those who make merchandise of the brethren, amening them and supporting their heretical movements done under the banner of Christianity. Yet they look down on the brother that watches Law & Order or an episode of King of the Hill, but who does not pay heed to heretical teachers.

I could go on and on and on.....



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 3:31:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

So where is the line drawn?

Some only allow their kids to watch Disney movies. Others feel that Disney is an evil homosexual loving company so they have Disney banned in their homes.

Some feel any and all alcoholic drinks are evil and pure sin. Others enjoy a glass of wine or a beer with dinner. Others even use real wine for their communion services. And the first group (ironically enough) don't see a problem with giving their kids Nyquil which has a good amount of alcohol.

Some feel smoking is a sin. Others smoke cigars at home and have no problem nor conviction with it.

Some feel that replacing the F word for Fudge makes it use OK. They also feel they can replace the D word for Darn and feel they are non-cursing good Christians. Yet the intent of their heart is identical to the person that just actually used the word.

Some have a problem eating meat feeling it is a sin to be a carnivore. Others enjoy all that God has given to us for food.

Some have no problem paying heed to false teachers and false prophets on the "Christian" TV and radio airwaves. Listening to those who deny essential Christian doctrine and those who make merchandise of the brethren, amening them and supporting their heretical movements done under the banner of Christianity. Yet they look down on the brother that watches Law & Order or an episode of King of the Hill, but who does not pay heed to heretical teachers.

I could go on and on and on.....

[sm=thumbsup.gif][sm=thumbsup.gif][sm=thumbsup.gif]

Everyone has different lines. Even though I agree with earthless, I'm sure we have different lines. Neither of us are wrong; just not the same. [;)]



WesP -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 3:33:42 PM)

quote:

So where is the line drawn?


earthless,

Perhaps, someone will swing by the house and draw a line in the dirt outside for you! [sm=Llol.gif]

quote:

Hmm, I think I ended up in the Snarkiness 101 thread.


ROFL!!!! [sm=purplelaugh.gif]



NobodyImportant -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 8:03:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisFish
There are those who presume upon Gods mercy and grace to see how much of the worlds pleasures they can possibly get away with, and then there are others who are so grateful for Christ's sacrifice in they're stead that an unquenchable thirst for holiness and separateness is they're only concern. It all depends on where your focus is; yourself, or Christ.
The words are pretty, but hollow. Nobody matching this idealistic description exists, and the other is an exceptional circumstance which has nothing to do with video games. You've jumped over the subject entirely, except to create a false dichotomy by presuming that you are (or the hypothetical ideal you are representing is) somehow inherently different than a Christian gamer - and that a Christian gamer is precluded from Christ. (Perhaps even for that reason.) You then cast an immaculate light on the alternative only moments after having admitted to selling Christ cheaply. (and demonizing all of western civilization, the prime - and at times sole - facilitator of Christianity.)

You can't have it all 3 ways.
1. Non-Gamers are not Christ, 'unquenchably holy', or morally superior.
2. Gamers are not anti-Christ, 'deviantly hedonistic', or morally inferior.
3. Christians are Christians.

My point was that Christ should be above this pettiness, and unfortunately he's not - and not because of Earthless. God forbid he do something that actually is sinful.



HisFish -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/22/2008 8:49:01 PM)

quote:

The words are pretty, but hollow

They are hollow if i didnt mean them, but i did, so they arent.
quote:

Nobody matching this idealistic description exists

Then you know no real christians
quote:

You've jumped over the subject entirely,

then i suggest you read the thread from the beginning
quote:

presuming that you are (or the hypothetical ideal you are representing is) somehow inherently different than a Christian gamer

Different in that i will not play a game with themes that God abhors such as fornication, prostitution, murder, bloody assaults, yes sir, absolutely different.
quote:

and that a Christian gamer is precluded from Christ

Can you show me where i said any such thing?
quote:

You then cast an immaculate light on the alternative only moments after having admitted to selling Christ cheaply

I am guilty of having promoted cheap faith because of the cheap faith sold to me. thank the Lord He brought me to true faith, saving me from the usual cheap American brand of seeker sensitive "Christianity lite".
quote:

(and demonizing all of western civilization, the prime - and at times sole - facilitator of Christianity

We have to look on what western civilization did in the past, because of the slop we are dishing out to the world today.
quote:

God forbid he do something that actually is sinful

if he will involve himself in such vile entertainment such as this game is, then he has sinned.
You are called to holiness whether you like it or not. You are convicted when others respond to that call because you do not desire it, and you do not desire it because you love yourself more that Christ. It's ok, i've been there, you dont know how many years i've wasted in a fruitless faith because i was a lover of myself more that Christ.



car2ner -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 6:46:26 AM)

quote:

hmmm....do I detect a little salt with the banter? Green is just a color, my friend, for all people...even gamers
I am pleased that you agree. If one is grounded in Christ, he has no trouble seeing where the line is for all things are revealed by His Spirit. But for those that are not grounded, have trouble seeing because they try to make equal...the things of the world and the things that are of God.


It is nice to see someone take a little good natured ribbing. Too often, Christians can feel so strongly about their view (after all, they are speaking for GOD) that they can get very touchy and short tempered.
It is also nice to see someone speak a word of caution softly... although, even though I can read and understand shakespear, perhaps using a more modern bible translation would make it more readable.

I do agree that things like video games, sports, etc... can become idols and stumbling blocks. We do need to caution others if we see them heading for a cliff. But it is not up to us to draw that line in the sand for others in many respects. Earthless has listed some very hazy lines that some have tried to draw. For me, I see no appeal in playing a character on GTA#. But then again, someone in my WoW guild asked, "are we rescuing these mana boxes or stealing these mana boxes?" "Depends on who wins. The winner writes the history"> and then philosophy takes over the guild chat as we play.

I think we all enjoy a bit of tossing these ideas around, hense the popularity of these threads... and why I have no time to game before work, because I am on here discussing stuff.



NobodyImportant -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 7:31:03 AM)

There are too many nested quotes in your post for me to address all of them without flooding the page with white boxes, so I have to break down your counter-arguements back into these three main categories. This is really the thrust of your arguement.

1. Non-Gamers are not Christ, 'unquenchably holy' or morally superior.
If Christianity is contingent apon your description, then there are no Christians. There are no people who's only concern is holiness and separateness. It's not human, and it's not survivable. Christ is the only one who met these standards and he was sweating blood before he fell under the weight of that cross. Christians still need Christ, so like I said, it's a pretty idea, but a hollow reality.

2. Gamers are not anti-Christ, 'deviantly hedonistic' or morally inferior.
You've systematically portrayed gamers as hedonistic sell-outs, unrepentantly exploiting Christ's mercy without any personal investment or loyalty, 'artistically' twisting the truth to justify their sin, indulging in secret disobedience and in desperate need of redemption. Nowhere in this framework have you provided room for them to also be saved while being such, so gamers are precluded from Christ. I think most Christians would believe that Christ is the more powerful of the two.

3. Christians are Christians.
That you have different hobbies does not make you different. You are a Christian, so that's what you are. You aren't better or worse than other Christians here or elsewhere. You're part of the same body.

Providing extreme Positive\Negative examples such as you have, jumps over the middle section we are discussing. This isn't a debate about Good vs Evil so that approach does not work. We are talking about one Christian's behavior vs another Christian's behavior. This is reminiscent of the first council of Jerusalem. It's not your place to decide what is sin, and you'd get more support from American politicians & lawyers than you would from the Vatican in that endeavor. It's also not your job to tear him down and challenge his faith, integrity, honesty, loyalty, or validity as a Christian or as a person because he's not doing enough. Once you start that cycle it doesn't stop until Christ's work is undone. Instead, you should support and encourage his service where he is able, and not trouble the remainder with insinuations of laziness.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisFish
You are called to holiness whether you like it or not. You are convicted when others respond to that call because you do not desire it, and you do not desire it because you love yourself more that Christ. It's ok, i've been there, you dont know how many years i've wasted in a fruitless faith because i was a lover of myself more that Christ.
You've created yet another straw man. What you described above is not at all what is happening here. You portray it as if you are minding your own business and others are getting offended at your righteousness when the only rejection has been by you, toward others. Posting openly hostile sarcasm on the forums is not 'responding to a call to holiness' and people aren't convicted in guilt of comparisons. This comes across as though you are projecting. I'm merely disappointed to see Christians whimsically marginalizing Christianity to a fantastic triviality. Earthless is not the one who is allowing this to get in the way of Holiness.



car2ner -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 1:09:13 PM)

quote:

I'm merely disappointed to see Christians whimsically marginalizing Christianity to a fantastic triviality. Earthless is not the one who is allowing this to get in the way of Holiness.


This is an interest statement. Unfortunately I am blonde and don't understand what it means. Please clairify.



glenn78 -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 1:28:56 PM)

Greetings,

I am trying to find the line here on video games. I don't prefer GTA4, course language rubs me the wrong way. (It is a personal thing) However, I am a fan of Call of Duty 4 which has a lot less language but can be just as violent. This got me thinking though I play:

CIV IV - blow up my enemies when I attack or defend
EA NHL - I drop the gloves
Super Smash Brothers - Cartoon fighting
Pacman - Gluttony
Donkey Kong - animal abuse

I personally think that rough games can coarsen someone to the bad stuff of this world. However, the operative words there are "I think". I am not going to judge someone's salvation on it. I would question why they liked the game, and make sure they weren't in it to get a rush off of gunning down a prostitute but instead to just kill time. The best way to spend your time...maybe not, but where is the line?



jstbeliev -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 2:12:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

So where is the line drawn?




Therein is the question....isn't it earthless,that you, and only you can answer.

someone has so eloquently put it here that there is a choice on whether to serve self or serve God. One may ask...how am I serving myself? Or what makes playing degrading, perverse games so wrong in the eyes of some Christians?

I believe that one must take him/herself out of the equation. To completely remove him/herself from the situation and think on God. To totally decrease in feeling and emotion on a human level and begin to think spiritually. To do that is not easy because it is more familiar & easier to think fleshly, humanly...worldly, because the world is what we see, hear and react to. But to think on a spiritual level is to be removed from all what the world has to say and what the world does, and "see" things as God sees...based on what HE has given us through His Word. One will find that as he gets closer to God...the more and more will he hate the things of this world just as it is written Just because one believer doesn't commit adultery or become addicted to porn while playing these games or watching those movies or reading those magazines...doesn't mean that another believer won't. What cause one not to stumble causes another to stumble. The saying "well, I don't sin while I play/watch" but your brother is overtaken in sin. Are you your brother's keeper? Yes, Jesus explained to the Pharisees who their neighbor was and how to take care of him.

That is why God says what HE says in His Word through Apostle Paul "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample,For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, [that they are] the enemies of the cross of Christ:Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

So I don't concern myself with what believer does this or other believer does that...but how am I pleasing God? I am keeping myself, my mind, my heart on pure things. Paul tells us to think on certain things and lists them, and its listed for a reason. Phillipians 4.

Ultimately, the more we decrease, the more the Holy Spirit increases because of a truth, we will not be able to stand before Christ, Who is holy...if we are filthy. But we must desire to decrease, that decision causes the Spirit of God to help us.. so we understand that it is not within ourselves, something that we "do" that makes us go from flesh to spirit but it is the Spirit Himself by Jesus which causes us to change from within.

Lastly, the more one spends time with God and in His presence, the less he will spend time minding those things of the world which are not Godly. He will be able to, as he is perfected by God's Spirit, choose wisely.



jstbeliev -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 2:17:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: car2ner

quote:

hmmm....do I detect a little salt with the banter? Green is just a color, my friend, for all people...even gamers
I am pleased that you agree. If one is grounded in Christ, he has no trouble seeing where the line is for all things are revealed by His Spirit. But for those that are not grounded, have trouble seeing because they try to make equal...the things of the world and the things that are of God.


It is nice to see someone take a little good natured ribbing. Too often, Christians can feel so strongly about their view (after all, they are speaking for GOD) that they can get very touchy and short tempered.
It is also nice to see someone speak a word of caution softly... although, even though I can read and understand shakespear, perhaps using a more modern bible translation would make it more readable.

I do agree that things like video games, sports, etc... can become idols and stumbling blocks. We do need to caution others if we see them heading for a cliff. But it is not up to us to draw that line in the sand for others in many respects. Earthless has listed some very hazy lines that some have tried to draw. For me, I see no appeal in playing a character on GTA#. But then again, someone in my WoW guild asked, "are we rescuing these mana boxes or stealing these mana boxes?" "Depends on who wins. The winner writes the history"> and then philosophy takes over the guild chat as we play.

I think we all enjoy a bit of tossing these ideas around, hense the popularity of these threads... and why I have no time to game before work, because I am on here discussing stuff.



Ribbing....is someone ribbing me?!!! [;)]

Life is short and time is against us and all that, yes? So the peace of God sustains me...I simply love Him and want to please Him in all that I do. I not only owe Him my best...it is also expected.

God bless you and yours with His marvelous favor,



car2ner -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 6:20:06 PM)

quote:

Life is short and time is against us and all that, yes? So the peace of God sustains me...I simply love Him and want to please Him in all that I do. I not only owe Him my best...it is also expected.


Thank you and I agree. That is often on my mind when I make choices about how to spend my time. Being old enough to know how to read an IBM card (and old enought to even know what one is) I have a sense of how short life is. How do I want to spend that time, especially since God is always looking over our shoulders.

Others may disagree with what I do with my time, I may do the same for them. A word of warning may be called for but in the end, it is the Holy Spirit who helps us adjust our behavior. One should not get so defensive when advice, unasked for, is rejected.

If we look we can find fault with almost everything we do. Even a sweet little kid game can be faulty if it takes the place of what God really wants us to do. Again, I won't be supporting alot of games with my money. GTA is just one of them. If you will excuse me, there is some Horde that need their attitude adjusted. m'love is waiting for me.



earthless -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 6:54:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: car2ner

If you will excuse me, there is some Horde that need their attitude adjusted. m'love is waiting for me.


Please rebuff me!



HisFish -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 7:34:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jstbeliev

Life is short and time is against us and all that, yes? So the peace of God sustains me...I simply love Him and want to please Him in all that I do. I not only owe Him my best...it is also expected.

God bless you and yours with His marvelous favor,


You have captured in this wonderful sentence my undying desire for holiness. Thank you jstbeliev for that!



HisFish -> RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut (5/23/2008 8:24:59 PM)

Nobodyimportant, do you agree that God abhors murder, prostitution, fornication, and violence for its own sake?. Thank you for agreeing because He does. and if He says this:
quote:

Ephesians 5
5:8
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
5:9
(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)
5:10
and find out what pleases the Lord.
5:11
Have nothing to do with, but rather expose them.
5:12
For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret

Would you agree that to interact with any form of entertainment that glorifies the fruitless deeds of darkness is a sin when it is commanded that it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret?.



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