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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/23/2008 8:27:11 PM
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Kath
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/24/2008 6:32:45 AM
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everythingat
Posts: 218
Joined: 2/21/2008
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HisFish, but what if there's something that details the "fruitless deeds of darkness," but isn't glorifying them? What if it's speaking about them in a negative light and is meant to "expose" the actions for what they really are? Would you still be interacting with the "fruitless deeds" in a sinful way even if it was meant to repulse you and turn you away from them?
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/24/2008 8:44:20 AM
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HisFish
Posts: 557
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: everythingat
HisFish, but what if there's something that details the "fruitless deeds of darkness," but isn't glorifying them? What if it's speaking about them in a negative light and is meant to "expose" the actions for what they really are? Would you still be interacting with the "fruitless deeds" in a sinful way even if it was meant to repulse you and turn you away from them?
You sure can, which is why the Word says this
quote:
5:11
Have nothing to do with, but rather expose them.
But people in this thread defending playing this trash arent trying to expose anything, they enjoy the game.
< Message edited by HisFish -- 5/24/2008 8:04:51 PM >
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/24/2008 10:30:24 AM
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jstbeliev
Posts: 65
Joined: 2/20/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
ORIGINAL: jstbeliev
Life is short and time is against us and all that, yes? So the peace of God sustains me...I simply love Him and want to please Him in all that I do. I not only owe Him my best...it is also expected.
You have captured in this wonderful sentence my undying desire for holiness. Thank you jstbeliev for that!
God bless you my friend, spirit to spirit...we agree
To all:
Let us mind the things of the Lord and as we gather with our loved ones, let us not shovel Christ down their throat, let us just love them and with wisdom, toss in the Words of Christ as in a parable(look to Jesus' example)...for it is by those words will the Spirit bring about conviction and ultimately, we pray...salvation. Let us bless them, heal them all in the matchless, powerful name of Jesus(Yeshua) of Nazareth, King of kings and Lord of lords, praise Him ye saints, honor him and love Him by keeping His commandments & loving each other, just as He has said.
Happy Memorial Day saints and those yet to come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_____________________________
Why should you die? HE already died for you...
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/26/2008 8:23:58 PM
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NobodyImportant
Posts: 38
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
quote:
I'm merely disappointed to see Christians whimsically marginalizing Christianity to a fantastic triviality. Earthless is not the one who is allowing this to get in the way of Holiness. This is an interest statement. Unfortunately I am blonde and don't understand what it means. Please clairify. "I'm saddened to see the followers of Christ carelessly reducing Christ-like beliefs & practices to an impressive, but imaginary and unimportant state\position. Earthless is not the one who is allowing video games to get in the way of Faith and Loyalty to God and Christ."
Video games are toys. They aren't important, yet HisFish and others are claiming that it is impossible to be a Christian while playing them. If this is correct, it means that Christ's work is effectively undone by a toy. Faith becomes less valuable than a hobby, and the loyalty of a 'Christian' gamer is in vain until they repent of a sin they are ignorant of (or worse, defending). Earthless, on the other hand, seems to have no problem with Faith, yet he admittedly plays video games. They do not get in the way of holiness in his view. Therefore it is not him, but the ones proclaiming their own holiness who are allowing Jesus to be overpowered by these silly electronic gadgets - even while they accuse others of the same.
_____________________________
How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/26/2008 9:41:28 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 557
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NobodyImportant
quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
quote:
I'm merely disappointed to see Christians whimsically marginalizing Christianity to a fantastic triviality. Earthless is not the one who is allowing this to get in the way of Holiness. This is an interest statement. Unfortunately I am blonde and don't understand what it means. Please clairify. "I'm saddened to see the followers of Christ carelessly reducing Christ-like beliefs & practices to an impressive, but imaginary and unimportant state\position. Earthless is not the one who is allowing video games to get in the way of Faith and Loyalty to God and Christ."
Video games are toys. They aren't important, yet HisFish and others are claiming that it is impossible to be a Christian while playing them. If this is correct, it means that Christ's work is effectively undone by a toy. Faith becomes less valuable than a hobby, and the loyalty of a 'Christian' gamer is in vain until they repent of a sin they are ignorant of (or worse, defending). Earthless, on the other hand, seems to have no problem with Faith, yet he admittedly plays video games. They do not get in the way of holiness in his view. Therefore it is not him, but the ones proclaiming their own holiness who are allowing Jesus to be overpowered by these silly electronic gadgets - even while they accuse others of the same.
Please dont mischaracterize what i have said, i never said palying video games makes one unchristian, if you took the time to read everything which it appears you have not you would know the issue is GTA4, not ALL games. I have asked you to address my objections to that game alone, you cant or wont, i dont know which.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/26/2008 10:59:49 PM
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NobodyImportant
Posts: 38
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
Ephesians 5
5:8 - For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
5:9 - (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)
5:10 - and find out what pleases the Lord.
5:11 - Have nothing to do with, but rather expose them.
5:12 - For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret
Would you agree that to interact with any form of entertainment that glorifies the fruitless deeds of darkness is a sin when it is commanded that it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret? No.
In the strictest sense, I would say that if a sin existed here it would not be for mere interaction. The context of the interaction is much more important. In that sense, 'glorify' is an unusual word to use and sin is a dangerous subject. If anything, I would think you meant the reception of sin, but that implies a recognition and acceptance of the sin. If interaction alone implies acceptance, then as Paul says in the first letter to the Corinthians, you would have to leave the world. You are actually extending this a step further and saying that association with the association of sin, is also sin - which arguably makes it sinful for you to even be here. (Sin is everywhere on the internet and the Morality & Ethics board is like the Amazon.)
_____________________________
How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/26/2008 11:24:13 PM
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NobodyImportant
Posts: 38
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
Please dont mischaracterize what i have said, i never said palying video games makes one unchristian I don't think I'm misrepresenting you. This is what you have said:
quote:
People who play games that glorify prostitution, murder, violence and all that rot need to repent and beg the Lords forgiveness.
quote:
American "Christians" have made rationalization into an art form.
quote:
...let me add Canadians and the rest of the Western civilized world where being a christian has cost us next to nothing.
quote:
..who are guilty of having promoted a faith so cheap that Christ is an accessory in our life and not life itself.
quote:
There are those who presume upon Gods mercy and grace to see how much of the worlds pleasures they can possibly get away with
quote:
.. all depends on where your focus is; yourself, or Christ.
quote:
if he will involve himself in such vile entertainment such as this game is, then he has sinned.
quote:
You are convicted when others respond to that call because you do not desire it, and you do not desire it because you love yourself more that Christ.
So the characterization here is that they are:
- Intellectually Dishonest (Artistic rationalization)
- Without Loyalty (Cost nothing)
- Spiritual 'prostitutes' (Sold out)
- Hedonistic (Presume to Indulge)
- Exploting Christ (..as they possibly can)
- Immeasurably Selfish (Self over Christ)
- Sinful (Needing repentance)
You've systematically described an Anti-Christ, so I ask again, where in this framework a person can be all of these things and still be a Christian?
quote:
I have asked you to address my objections to that game alone There must be a mistake. You've never asked me this.
_____________________________
How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/27/2008 12:50:06 AM
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HisFish
Posts: 557
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: online
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quote:
There must be a mistake. You've never asked me this
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
Nobodyimportant, do you agree that God abhors murder, prostitution, fornication, and violence for its own sake?. Thank you for agreeing because He does. and if He says this:quote:
Ephesians 5
5:8
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light
5:9
(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth)
5:10
and find out what pleases the Lord.
5:11
Have nothing to do with, but rather expose them.
5:12
For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret
Would you agree that to interact with any form of entertainment that glorifies the fruitless deeds of darkness is a sin when it is commanded that it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret?.
perhaps you missed this nobodyimportant, since this thread is about GTA4, i dont think i need to keep naming the game, it is the issue. (post #125)
< Message edited by HisFish -- 5/27/2008 1:02:59 AM >
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/27/2008 6:07:07 AM
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NobodyImportant
Posts: 38
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
perhaps you missed this nobodyimportant, since this thread is about GTA4, i dont think i need to keep naming the game, it is the issue. (post #125) No, this isn't how it works. You can't appeal to context like I'm an idiot and patronize me when I point out that what you said never happened: quote:
I have asked you to address my objections to that game alone, you cant or wont, i dont know which. You never asked or requested anything of the sort, yet you portray it as if I've refused. When I overlook you casting blame on me and suggest that a mistake was made, you turn around and point to context while insinuating that I've stupidly overlooked the obvious, as if that somehow explains or vindicates saying something which isn't true. I had assumed you were referring to something you had deleted from a draft and forgotten. I even went back and triple checked to make sure I didn't miss something because accidents happen - but what should I make of it now?
You said "any form of entertainment" - and have said so repeatedly. You did not reduce this to GTA4, nor did you request that I assume your statements to be so restricted. There is no reason to believe that you meant for Ephesians 5 to apply only to this one case, or that it would stop there even if you intended it to. In fact, your first citation of Ephesians (Post #94) anchors your criticisms directly to music, film, and video games. You did not define any particular boundaries.
I think it's reasonable to suppose that this bleeds over into the over-arching subject of game\media controversies in general, which Grand Theft Auto 4 is a part of, and which has been in discussion since the first page. You also completely ignored (twice) the point about portraying gamers as anti-Christ which, even if they play GTA4, is the main point I was making about what you've said, which you say I mischaracterize. If you want to add constraints now, you've got a lot of them to add which you should have added in the first place.
_____________________________
How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/27/2008 8:57:55 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 557
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: online
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Im sorry you feel so angry, was not my aim. But we are just spinning our wheels here yes?. May the Lord richly bless you above all you can imagine. The last word is your's if you wish as it has become unprofitable for me to continue with this subject.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/28/2008 1:18:24 AM
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NobodyImportant
Posts: 38
Joined: 5/9/2005
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quote:
Im sorry you feel so angry, was not my aim. But we are just spinning our wheels here yes? May the Lord richly bless you above all you can imagine. The last word is your's if you wish as it has become unprofitable for me to continue with this subject. My anger was isolated to the situation, Fish. This was never really about you and me. Keep the blessings, I'm sure you can find a better use for them elsewhere.
_____________________________
How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/28/2008 7:59:10 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5732
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/gta-iv-star-only-made-100-000/1215423
ah, the greed of the game leaks over into real life. As the game becomes successful, more people want a bigger piece of the pie, even though they knew and agreed to compensation before they did any work.
It's the free market system.. are we supposed to be outraged/shocked about this?
quote:
"I don't blame Rockstar. I blame our union for not having the agreements in place to protect the creative people who drive the sales of these games."
The pay discrepancy stems from the fact that Hollywood has yet to make provisions for electronic media, including video games or the Internet. Instead, actors get paid standard Screen Actor's Guild day wages for their work (roughly $730), leaving them out of the lucrative residual loop should a property become financially successful. When it becomes as successful as GTA IV, an actor could be out literally millions.
Hollick is also peeved that he received no additional compensation for lending his voice to the game's massive marketing blitz.
"The first GTA 4 trailer generated something like 40 million hits online, and that's my voice all over it, and I get nothing. If that were a radio spot, I would have. Same thing for the TV ads. I recorded those lines for the game, but now they're all over television."
Sounds fair to me.. and his claims are indeed true if it were a radio ad or TV spot.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/28/2008 6:13:35 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2771
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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yup, it would be but he knew what the agreement was going in... and now that it is successful, he wants to change the agreement. Would he be giving money back if the product flopped???? That is how book advances go with writers. This is how music gets produced. You get money and if the product doesn't sell enough to cover it, you need to give some back.
He was working fee-for-work. Now, if they ask him to do another game, he can work out differant deal. If they accept it, fine. If not, there are plenty of voice actors who are willing to do this work.
< Message edited by car2ner -- 5/28/2008 6:19:35 PM >
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/28/2008 8:01:12 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5732
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
yup, it would be but he knew what the agreement was going in... and now that it is successful, he wants to change the agreement. Would he be giving money back if the product flopped???? That is how book advances go with writers. This is how music gets produced. You get money and if the product doesn't sell enough to cover it, you need to give some back.
He was working fee-for-work. Now, if they ask him to do another game, he can work out differant deal. If they accept it, fine. If not, there are plenty of voice actors who are willing to do this work.
And why is this an issue for us? Are we now being shocked by greed in Hollywood?
And based off of your new avatar.. are you a LARPER?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 6:02:17 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2771
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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it is not an issue... just an FYI. The gal is my daughter. She does LARP but not often anymore. In this photo she is performing at the Georgia Renaissance Festival...she is one of the ladies on court but also a bit of a rogue at heart.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 8:08:56 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5732
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
it is not an issue... just an FYI. The gal is my daughter. She does LARP but not often anymore. In this photo she is performing at the Georgia Renaissance Festival...she is one of the ladies on court but also a bit of a rogue at heart.
Cool.. - does she also play WoW?
I bought Conan:Age of Hyboria and still have not played it.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 2:19:44 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1505
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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I got into a discussion with a Christian sister the other day. She was railing on the evils of video games, movies and even Christian Rock.
I asked her that how on one hand, you try to shield your teen from things like that, but have no problem letting you teen watch TBN or sending your teen to youth events featuring documented heretics as guest speakers?
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 2:22:07 PM
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LBolt
Posts: 896
Joined: 11/30/2007
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Here's an interesting question. If Jesus was here in the flesh, do you think he'd be playing Grand Theft Auto 1,2,3 or 4?
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 2:33:13 PM
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car2ner
Posts: 2771
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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My daughter plays WoW on occasion and sometimes CoH. But mostly she is either at her day job, rehearsing, performing or out with her sweetheart. All her toons are lowbies.
WWJD? Since I don't play GTA#, I wouldn't enjoy inviting Jesus to play either. Considering we aren't keeping anything from Him anyhow, anything we do we could imagine him looking over our shoulder watching. I know now and then he'd give me "the look', noone gets it right all the time.
_____________________________
http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 2:52:28 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5732
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
I got into a discussion with a Christian sister the other day. She was railing on the evils of video games, movies and even Christian Rock.
I asked her that how on one hand, you try to shield your teen from things like that, but have no problem letting you teen watch TBN or sending your teen to youth events featuring documented heretics as guest speakers?
That is an excellent point I brought up some two or three pages ago.
During that time of posting, I was sitting at this computer wondering how many of those posting in this thread about how evil and sinful it is to play a video game are also the same people who pay heed to heretics, false teachers and false prophets who blaspheme the Word of God for profit and control.
Ironic, huh?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 3:53:09 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16988
Joined: 2/28/2005
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I am pretty sure we have other threads in this folder to discuss games in general. This thread is specifically about GTA, so lets keep the focus there. Thanks!
Sincerely
Kath
Please do not comment on this action in the community or send me a PM about it. If you have questions, comments or concerns please email Fritz at community@salemwebnetwork.com allowing time for a reply. Thanks!
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 7:08:45 PM
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9drtr
Posts: 1583
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Toronto the Good
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Here's an interesting question. If Jesus was here in the flesh, do you think he'd be playing Grand Theft Auto 1,2,3 or 4?
Nope. He'd only play Vice City.
_____________________________
Edwin
When we know who is coming, how can we worry about what is coming? When the last hour belongs to us, how can we worry about the next minute?
Ross Crighton
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RE: Grand Theft Auto 4 is complete smut - 5/29/2008 8:55:52 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5732
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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Edwin - is that because it has the best sound track out of all of them?
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