Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (Full Version)

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kburrow -> Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 8:31:30 AM)

Hi,

My kids are 1 and 3, and I have a question for the (much) more experienced parents here.

The Bill Gothard thread brought up a topic that has been on my mind lately. How do I teach my kids to appropriately question authority, even mine?

I was brought up in an abusive home, and a very authoritarian one. You just did not question Dad, even when he was openly abusive or the things he was doing were illegal or unBiblical (stealing my credit identity, threatening to leave the family because he didn't feel respected enough, etc.). Dad's rage fits were very scary, and could be brought on by anything. I've seen him flip out because I supposedly said "Good morning" disrespectfully, etc.

I grew up trained to not question any authority at all, even when teachers did things that were wrong, boyfriends didn't treat me right, and of course all the things my parents did. I was trained to shut up and go along no matter what. It got me into some very bad situations, and it is pure Grace of God I didn't get into a bad marriage. I was very vulnerable to abusive boyfriends. I'm so blessed my husband is such a gem.

I don't want my kids to be that way. I want to teach them to obey us and their teachers, but to still feel loved and secure asking us why rules are the way they are. I don't mind explaining why their Dad and I do things the way we do, and showing them relevant Scriptures. If my child even comes to me and shows me in a valid way (Scripturally or otherwise) that they believe a rule needs to change, I am willing to listen. I don't want silent drones. I want thoughtful kids who know they're loved and follow the rules with a willing heart.

Any ideas on how to actually do this? My kids are so little now that it isn't much of any issue, but even my 3 year old is starting to ask "why?" sometimes. How have parents of older kids tackled this issue?

Thanks,

Kim



Sunnymom -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 9:25:46 AM)

Two things come to mind- that we take the time to explain things to kids when we are not in the midst of the hurry-scurry of life. We read Proverbs almost every day, and discuss all the behaviors, good and bad, the rewards for wise and responsible actions, and the reasons for the warnings against immorality. Many of their questions are answered during these discussions.

The second thing is that kids are allowed to ask questions, but not allowed to question. It is all about attitude.

Kids need to know that if something happens that they believe is morally wrong, they can freely talk to mom and dad without getting in trouble. And one of the first things kids need to understand is that anyone who tells them not to tell mom and dad something because they will get mad is a LIAR and DANGEROUS. My kids know to refer all adults who have questions about our 'rules' to my dh and I. Any adult who does not respect this obviously doesn't have the best interests of our children at heart, and will be removed from their sphere of influence.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 9:42:45 AM)

quote:

Any ideas on how to actually do this? My kids are so little now that it isn't much of any issue, but even my 3 year old is starting to ask "why?" sometimes. How have parents of older kids tackled this issue?

great question!!!! that was a hard one for us when our first and second were hitting that "why" stage. They are now 8 and 7, and how we taught them was with these things in mind.....
*we never allowed a toddler to question our safety rules...any question about safety (by question I mean not want to follow them) resulted in immediate response from us. We allowed teaching opportunities outside of the heat of the moment though for them to know why we said what we said. For instance...we never allow our kids to touch the stove, whether it is on or not...so that when it is on they are still "safe".
*we expected and taught our kids that there are appropriate times to ask and times when it isn't appropriate to ask why. In the heat of the moment isn't usually a good time to ask for certain situations...however in other situations it is OK to ask. If they want to know why they have to do their chores RIGHT NOW then we answer with "because it's time to do chores". We try to not get into the "because I said so" camp, but we have to sometimes. Depends on what we are trying to achieve...there are times we need them (for their own good or safety) to just jump to and not ask questions about something. We practice that with little ones by giving commands and them following them (like Simon Says the game...they like that).
*If there isn't time to answer a question that they really want to know the answer to (not just them asking to stall time or not have to do whatever we said) then we allow for that time in the moment if possible...if not we make time later to discuss it with them. There are days when our time is very rushed and we don't have time to really answer effectively....but there are days when it isn't and we can take the time to answer. It's all about teaching moments.



csl7037 -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 10:10:01 AM)

I know bringing up the Ezzo's (Growing Kids God's Way) elicits varying, but often very empassioned, opinions. And I certainly think you have to take anything they say, or anyone else, with a grain of salt. But they did teach something like an "appeal process" that could be taught to kids. I liked that idea because I've certainly had situations come up where I didn't have all the facts when I first reacted or "adjudicated" a situation or a punishment.



shadowspring -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 10:43:36 AM)

I always taught my kids to answer respectfully, but then they are allowed to ask questions.

They can most certainly tell me they think I am being unfair, or making a rash decision, as long as they do it with respect.

For example:

"Okay, I'll tell Sarah I can't go swimming. But I don't think it's fair. All my chores are done and I have time. Please explain to me why you don't think it's a good plan." Then I can answer with my reasoning on the decision. They learn good decision making and logic this way.

And sometimes, I'll even wind up changing my mind if I see that my decision was rash or based on incomplete information.

It's not okay to whine, complain or throw a fit of any kind. But to respectfully ask why is totally acceptable here.

Total and complete submission and obedience without understanding is not healthy, in my opinion.

God invites us to reason with him and ask Him for understanding and wisdom. How can we demand from others more than God's righteous requirements?

Edited to add this: My children are all teens. Sarah has the right idea with little ones. They need to obey safety rules without question and immediately. Lives may depend on it. The children I deal with are beyond that sort of situation.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 10:47:14 AM)

quote:

Total and complete submission and obedience without understanding is not healthy, in my opinion.

for older kids, I would agree...but the OP's kids are 1 and 3 and IMO for the toddler years that is a necessary step in the foundation of things first. Toddlers do not have the mental capacities to reason like older kids do...and they do not need to be questioning authority when their safety is at risk...which is a lot of times present with toddlers behaving like that.



shadowspring -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 2:39:42 PM)

Sarah,

[sm=blush.gif] I think we cross-posted while I was editing my above post to add that I agreed with your point of veiw 100% with the little ones and safety issues.

One puppet skit I saw to get this point across in children's church went like this:

A lone puppet is on stage. A stick painted to look like a peppermint stick is in the middle of the stage. A voice booms out "Don't touch the candy cane. You don't know where it's been."

The puppet says "I'm not touching it. I'm just looking at it."

This exchange goes on several times, each time with the puppet getting closer and closer. Finally, the puppet gives in to temptation and begins licking the candy cane vigorously.

The candy cane rises from below stage to reveal that it is in fact a plunger. [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]

All the children are grossed out and laughing the last time the voice booms out "Don't touch the candy cane. You don't know where it's been."

This is the set up for talking to the youngsters about how we can trust God and our parents. We don't have to understand the reasons for the rules before we obey. We need to trust that rules are there to protect us.

I still tell my children "Don't touch the candy cane. You don't know where it's been." It's a giggly reminder that God knows best.[:)]



pbaribeault -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 10:07:12 PM)

Children will naturally ask questions, push boundaries and question authority (even yours)... So it's all in how you respond. If you respond with harshness or anger they will learn to stop it. It you respond reasonably, and teach them good timing and good wording, they will continue.

Unfortunately harshness will probably be a natural tendency for you, given your background - don't feel bad, just apologize for your overreaction, and tell them an OK way to approach the same issue while you try to control your response.

Another good thing is that if you have rules of general behaviour (example: no playing at the table, no interrupting) you should obey them too, and be open to having your young ones quote them at you if you slip up -- it's an excellent time to model how to respond to being reminded of a rule.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/12/2008 11:35:32 PM)

quote:

Sarah,

I think we cross-posted while I was editing my above post to add that I agreed with your point of veiw 100% with the little ones and safety issues.
[:D][:D]

that's a cute analogy puppet show!!!



buckifn -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/13/2008 8:03:11 AM)

I don't think we have to teach kids to question authority. It happens naturally generally by the age of 2. lol

However, I do think it is important to treat kids in such a way that they know you as an adult take their questions seriously, give validity to their curiosity, and answer them in a way they can understand.

The best lesson I learned as a parent and as someone who has worked extensively with other people's children is find out what the child is really wanting to know.

"questioning authority" could mean all sorts of things to different people, and esp. to a child who is not fully developed to process things in a way an adult does.

For a young child I would say keep it short, keep it simple, and keep it truthful.



luvmysavior -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/17/2008 11:51:48 PM)

Tedd Tripp, author of Shepherding a Child's Heart, also writes about the Process of Appeal. The "pattern for appeal" is (quote) 1. the child begins to obey immediately, not after the appeal. 2. the child must be prepared to obey either way. 3. the child must appeal in a respectful manner. 4. the child must accept the result of the appeal with a gracious spirit.

This is the example quoted from the book:
Mother says, "It is time to go to bed." The child begins to head for bed, and while en route may ask, "Is it okay if I finish coloring this picture first?" Mother may say, "Yes, that would be okay," or she may say, "No, dear, you were up late last night. You need your sleep." Whichever the answer, the child must be prepared to obey without challenge, without excuse, without delay.

I agree with the others, toddlers need to learn immediate obedience. But really this method does require immediate obedience before the appeal begins. As long as the child understands that they are to obey first and then ask questions, I think this method could be used.



Ellie-Mae -> RE: Advice wanted: teaching kids appropriate questioning of authority (5/18/2008 9:06:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: luvmysavior

Tedd Tripp, author of Shepherding a Child's Heart, also writes about the Process of Appeal. The "pattern for appeal" is (quote) 1. the child begins to obey immediately, not after the appeal. 2. the child must be prepared to obey either way. 3. the child must appeal in a respectful manner. 4. the child must accept the result of the appeal with a gracious spirit.

This is the example quoted from the book:
Mother says, "It is time to go to bed." The child begins to head for bed, and while en route may ask, "Is it okay if I finish coloring this picture first?" Mother may say, "Yes, that would be okay," or she may say, "No, dear, you were up late last night. You need your sleep." Whichever the answer, the child must be prepared to obey without challenge, without excuse, without delay.

I agree with the others, toddlers need to learn immediate obedience. But really this method does require immediate obedience before the appeal begins. As long as the child understands that they are to obey first and then ask questions, I think this method could be used.


I have that book, but haven't read it yet. Maybe I should. that is the way it works here. This happened just yesterday with David. Something happened while I was in my room that sounded a little out of the ordinary. I came downstairs and asked David what was happening. David told me what was happening and then added, "I understand what dad is doing and think it is a good idea, but I think that we should have had warning." Then he explained what he meant. He went back to what he was supposed to be doing. He wasn't complaining and was doing his best to cooperate.

Then when there was a pause in activities, I talked to Russ about it and he agreed with David. Because David was the only one where it made a difference, he was released from the activity completely. We are going to make expectations and consequences VERY clear next time it comes up.

This doesn't happen often, but we are human and do miss things sometimes. It is important to keep an eye out for mistakes and such. Providing an enviroment where kids can voice their opinions safely and teaching them how to do it has more benefits than just the immediate and goes beyond childhood.



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