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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/24/2008 8:24:23 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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quote:
I remember saying I have a son in Iraq, but I never told you I had a daughter. And she just started undergoing chemotherapy for recently diagnosed cancer. Thank you and God bless you.
Juluis, she is in my prayers also.
My younger sister has it also.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/24/2008 8:28:59 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
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I don't think anything constructive is going to come out of this forum. It has degenerated into real bitterness.
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/24/2008 8:37:54 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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quote:
don't think anything constructive is going to come out of this forum. It has degenerated into real bitterness.
-Dave
What?........ We are finaly making progress.....
quote:
This whole thing is going nowhere. I'm not going to respond to any more of this. Have it your way. There's no reasoning with you.
-Dave
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/26/2008 7:45:03 PM
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figmentPez
Posts: 2120
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From: TX
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May I ask a question. Is this LOLCat racist?
Christina Ricci Cat Disapproves of Pink Thing
Personally, the cat does remind me of Ms Ricci. Maybe it's the large forehead, or the scowl. The comparison pic at the link isn't a good choice, they should have used a shot from one of the Addam's family movies.
Anway, is that a racist photo, saying that Christina Ricci looks like a cat (or vice versa)?
Does your opinion of that comparison change in light of this historical quote:
"While the rest of the species is descended from apes, redheads are descended from cats."
- Mark Twain
Don't get the relevance, given that Christina Ricci isn't a redhead? Well, keep in mind that redheads have been discriminated against in the past, mostly in Europe, but somewhat in the United States as well, as much as red hair is associated with the Irish. If there has been racism towards the Irish, and discrimination against redheads in general, and people have said that redheads are cats, then obviously it must be racist to say that someone looks like a particular cat, right? It's impossible that someone comparing Ms. Ricci to this cat picture could be ignorant that comparing someone to a cat is a form of genetic discrimination, right?
Now, for the record, I'm not discounting racism as a serious problem, or saying that it's okay to intentionally insult someone by saying that they, as an individual or their entire ethnic group, are just an animal. What I am questioning is why it's assumed that there is obvious racism in this case. Did I miss the memo sent to all of humanity duly informing us that black people were once called monkeys and that everyone should be aware of this historical, and horrible, insult?
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 9:27:06 AM
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IonMoon
Posts: 832
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
Does your opinion of that comparison change in light of this historical quote:
"While the rest of the species is descended from apes, redheads are descended from cats."
- Mark Twain
Don't get the relevance, given that Christina Ricci isn't a redhead? Well, keep in mind that redheads have been discriminated against in the past, mostly in Europe, but somewhat in the United States as well, as much as red hair is associated with the Irish. If there has been racism towards the Irish, and discrimination against redheads in general, and people have said that redheads are cats, then obviously it must be racist to say that someone looks like a
Well... the Twain quote was putting himself (a redhead) above all the rest of us! So... calling redheads cats was a compliment, therefore making the rest of your argument null.
Tara P
_____________________________
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 12:20:35 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ken1906_4
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: ken1906_4
Unfortunately this thread is clear indicator of the cultural conditioning we have all been exposed to. So much so many under-estimate, under-value and marginalized the experiences and the history (good and bad) of a certain groups of people while putting other groups on a pedestal. What we have here is a gross failure to understand the history of why a person would equate Senator Obama to curious George. Honestly it sickens me that as Christians we are to seek truth, well the truth is right here smacking you in the face and not even realizing that certain things have occurred and still occurring in this present day. Talk bad about Jews, it’s a problem. Talk about homosexuals it’s a problem. Talk bad about any other group, it’s a problem. Talk bad about African Americans, it’s ok because all they are doing is over-reacting and being politically correct. What kind of rass (excuse my language) business is that? This is racist nothing more and nothing less. If one doesn’t see it as such then either you are a terrible liar or a racist. Either way it is sinful. I really wish some of you will be honest.
Are you saying that you actually think blacks look like monkeys?
That's sick, demeaning, and, well, racist.
What the heck you are talking about? Why would I think African Americans look like monkeys when I'm African american myself. Why would I self demean myself or those of within my ehtnic group. So once again what the heck are you talking about? What I stated is the mentality of folks who don't find the t-shirt issue offensive.
You said using the cartoon was racist. That's only true if there's a remote resemblance between blacks and apes, which I don't see any more than for any other human.
If I were going to demean a group of people, I certainly would use a cute, cuddly character like Curious George. That's like trying demonize someone with a picture of Winnie the Pooh.
There are much worse cartoon characters to accomplish that, like the Wolf in granny's clothing or Wiley Coyote... But some people are dead-set on being offended at anything, even something cute and cuddly.
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 2:24:29 PM
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IonMoon
Posts: 832
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From: The Unted State of Confusion
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
You said using the cartoon was racist. That's only true if there's a remote resemblance between blacks and apes, which I don't see any more than for any other human.
If I were going to demean a group of people, I certainly would use a cute, cuddly character like Curious George. That's like trying demonize someone with a picture of Winnie the Pooh.
There are much worse cartoon characters to accomplish that, like the Wolf in granny's clothing or Wiley Coyote... But some people are dead-set on being offended at anything, even something cute and cuddly.
Except that the person who created (or at least was selling) the t-shirts said point blank that he was trying to offend. He did not say in so many words, that it was racist, but he certainly did distribute the shirts in an effort to demean Obama.
Tara P
_____________________________
http://www.geocities.com/hallscola67/KyliesHomemadeShopIndex.htm
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 2:33:46 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
Except that the person who created (or at least was selling) the t-shirts said point blank that he was trying to offend. He did not say in so many words, that it was racist, but he certainly did distribute the shirts in an effort to demean Obama.
And you know this how, from your heat oppressed liberal brain image thought? (Reference to Hamlet intended).
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 3:27:09 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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I didn't stutter. What don't you understand about my post?
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
don't think anything constructive is going to come out of this forum. It has degenerated into real bitterness.
-Dave
What?........ We are finaly making progress.....
quote:
This whole thing is going nowhere. I'm not going to respond to any more of this. Have it your way. There's no reasoning with you.
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 3:56:11 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Dunno much about Ms. Ricci's hair, but I'm a redhead..............well I used to be. Now it's sorta silvery and platinum.  There's Dutch, German and Irish in my ancestry. Great candidate for having red hair.
In my early school years, I was teased unmercifully about having red hair. At the time it bothered me, but my folks told me that maybe they were jealous of my full head of red hair. Guess what! I got over the teasing and tormenting. I became proud of the fact that I was a bit different from most others.
My favorite animals are cats too. Especially tigers, like my avatar. Maybe old Mark was on to something......... 
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
"While the rest of the species is descended from apes, redheads are descended from cats."
- Mark Twain
Don't get the relevance, given that Christina Ricci isn't a redhead? Well, keep in mind that redheads have been discriminated against in the past, mostly in Europe, but somewhat in the United States as well, as much as red hair is associated with the Irish. If there has been racism towards the Irish, and discrimination against redheads in general, and people have said that redheads are cats, then obviously it must be racist to say that someone looks like a particular cat, right? It's impossible that someone comparing Ms. Ricci to this cat picture could be ignorant that comparing someone to a cat is a form of genetic discrimination, right?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 4:00:01 PM
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IonMoon
Posts: 832
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
Except that the person who created (or at least was selling) the t-shirts said point blank that he was trying to offend. He did not say in so many words, that it was racist, but he certainly did distribute the shirts in an effort to demean Obama.
And you know this how, from your heat oppressed liberal brain image thought? (Reference to Hamlet intended).
Thanks
RC
I know this because the man who distributed the shirts said so.
And since the guy he has also had signs in front of his bar saying things like... "I wish Hillary had married OJ"
Tara P
_____________________________
http://www.geocities.com/hallscola67/KyliesHomemadeShopIndex.htm
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 4:10:11 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
You said using the cartoon was racist. That's only true if there's a remote resemblance between blacks and apes, which I don't see any more than for any other human.
If I were going to demean a group of people, I certainly would use a cute, cuddly character like Curious George. That's like trying demonize someone with a picture of Winnie the Pooh.
There are much worse cartoon characters to accomplish that, like the Wolf in granny's clothing or Wiley Coyote... But some people are dead-set on being offended at anything, even something cute and cuddly.
Except that the person who created (or at least was selling) the t-shirts said point blank that he was trying to offend. He did not say in so many words, that it was racist, but he certainly did distribute the shirts in an effort to demean Obama.
Tara P
Either we read different accounts or you have proven my point.
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/27/2008 6:06:21 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
And since the guy he has also had signs in front of his bar saying things like... "I wish Hillary had married OJ"
And this is a racist statement?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 7:55:25 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Either we read different accounts or you have proven my point.
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I am not going to hunt down the article, (it was posted here in this thread if you are interested in rummaging through to find it) but he said that his intention was to offend, he is clearly not an Obama fan, so was clearly not selling them to make Obama look good...
Well, I went back and read the OP before I posted that in case I missed something. I stand by my statement: Either we read different accounts or you have proven my point that some people are determined to be offended no matter what.
[Edited to fix quote codes]
< Message edited by JimboFletch -- 5/28/2008 8:02:22 AM >
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 8:07:21 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
My point is that the man has a history of provocative statements. He is not known for being warm & fuzzy. This needs to be taken into consideration when deciding whether the shirts were meant to demean or support (whether racist or not).
Had the man created the shirts, that might be a valid point. Someone else made them and sent the T-shirts to him.
quote:
And I have already vowed to move from the country if Hillary wins...
If your loyalty and love of this country is THAT thin, then don't wait, move now.
If I lived closer, I'd help you load your belongings into the van.
Your statement is one of the clearest examples I've seen recently of what Thomas Paine meant when he coined the phrase "summer soldier and the sunshine patriot."
Go. Abandon ship because of possible bumpy waves ahead while the rest of us stay and face them.
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 9:23:22 AM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
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quote:
...some people are determined to be offended no matter what.
THAT'S the whole point!!! Thank you for eloquently and succintly stating it!
If we can manage to find offense in something, it removes personal responsibility and keeps the spotlight on "ME". Being "offended" is an extremely selfish thing! In no way does that excuse the "offender" if there is a sinful motive behind the offense. But "being offended" is my choice and, therefore, my responsibility. I can sit in the mud puddle and dwell on the fact that I was pushed into it or I can get up and get back to doing what God wants me to do. And, even if the offense was intentional, He NEVER, EVER wants me to sit around feeling all offended and whining about it!!! That is SIN and there is no other way to describe it! What Biblical example(s) do we have of people that dwelt on and wallowed in offenses?
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 9:31:33 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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The TShirt is racist. Apes being compared to blacks is racist.
Just because you don't see it don't make it so.
I have linked a museum on this.
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/traveling/grid/29.htm
Thehistory is too long on this to deny it.
Bt we have been in denial in this country for 100's of years, so I'm not surprised.
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 5/28/2008 9:38:57 AM >
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 9:56:25 AM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
The TShirt is racist. Apes being compared to blacks is racist.
Just because you don't see it don't make it so.
I have linked a museum on this.
http://www.ferris.edu/jimcrow/traveling/grid/29.htm
Thehistory is too long on this to deny it.
Bt we have been in denial in this country for 100's of years, so I'm not surprised.
Yep...you are absolutely right. Racism is a bona fide offense and a very real sin. Still...see my above post. MY sin is MY ungodly reaction to the offense, though. I don't have to concern myself with the sin of a restaurant owner in Marietta, GA. I only have to concern myself with my own sin. God will take care of the rest. The vengance is His, not mine.
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 10:01:52 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
I don't have to concern myself with the sin of a restaurant owner in Marietta, GA.
I'm not sure I understand? You are in the thread but are not concerning yourself with it?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 10:03:16 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
The TShirt is racist. Apes being compared to blacks is racist.
Just because you don't see it don't make it so.
I have linked a museum on this.
http://www.ferris.edu/ jimcrow / traveling/ grid/29.htm
Thehistory is too long on this to deny it.
Bt we have been in denial in this country for 100's of years, so I'm not surprised.
Yes, you have made the claim and you have posted the link before but you seem to only one of a very few in this thread who see a resemblance between those caricatures and monkeys/apes/baboons/non-human primates. They look like exagerations of certain features (thus, what makes them caricatures), but they do not look like any animals I've ever seen.
The "History" is of caricatures not portrayal of other animals.
Tell me, do YOU see a resembance between blacks and monkeys - and why or why not?
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 10:05:38 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
I don't have to concern myself with the sin of a restaurant owner in Marietta, GA.
I'm not sure I understand? You are in the thread but are not concerning yourself with it?
No. She's merely letting you know that she doesn't have to repent of another man's sin. God eliminated the requirement of one generation having to pay for anothe generation's sin. Is that a problem?
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 10:19:28 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Tell me, do YOU see a resembance between blacks and monkeys - and why or why not?
LOL.LOL.
There is a history of using blacks to look like apes. You can try to revise that history here and now if it pleases you.
But it is there nonetheless.
People now have their own racism to deal with, I'm not asking anyone to apologize for their fathers. But also don't lie and say your father did'nt do it.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Curious George/Obama T-Shirt Racist? - 5/28/2008 10:33:24 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
Tell me, do YOU see a resembance between blacks and monkeys - and why or why not?
....There is a history of using blacks to look like apes. You can try to revise that history here and now if it pleases you.
I'm not doing any revising. I'm just waiting for you to show me some. I do not see any of it on that site you linked.
Do you know what a caricature is?
I am not denying that the caricatures on that site are demeaning. They are. They, however, do not make blacks appear as monkeys.
And, honestly, Curious George is not a demeaning character to me. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if people told me I looked like him. But based on this thread, I can envision books and cartoons being banned and burned in the future by the more "enlightened" who see him as representing today's oppressed blacks.
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