RE: Is God trying to save all sinners?

RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (Full Version)

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justajerk -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/17/2008 7:19:54 PM)
quote: What if it does bring conviction, yet those convicted refuse to repent, and love their sins and idols more than their salvation? Love darkness more than light, because their deeds are evil? How do you know what occurs in someone else's heart? Please provide scripture of someone who was truly convicted yet refused to repent.

justajerk -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/17/2008 7:28:21 PM)
quote: Matthew 18 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. To call upon the name of the Lord is to also repent and be converted. They are two sides of the same coin. Where does this verse say that they said a prayer or asked to be converted? quote: John 3 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Those who call upon the name of the Lord are saved. To be saved is to be justified by faith, to receive forgiveness of sins, and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. To receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is to be born again by His power. How can a grown man be born again? quote: John 6 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Exactly. Those who are saved are given to Christ by the Father, and those who truly call upon the name of the Lord are never cast out. Now they are saved and then given to Christ? I have to ask because you said elsewhere: "But those who believe and receive Christ as saved." Please clarify, so that I can understand.

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/17/2008 9:17:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra quote: Matthew 18 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. To call upon the name of the Lord is to also repent and be converted. They are two sides of the same coin. Conversion is a man's change of heart and new birth. Are you suggesting that man converts himself? quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra quote: John 3 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Those who call upon the name of the Lord are saved. To be saved is to be justified by faith, to receive forgiveness of sins, and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. To receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is to be born again by His power. Are you saying that to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is to be born again and it is dependent on our calling upon God?

drmark -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/17/2008 10:15:21 PM)
quote: Please provide scripture of someone who was truly convicted yet refused to repent. Acts 24:25 is the remarkable description of a man familiar with Christianity who hears powerful preaching and comes under such intense conviction that he is "afraid" and quickly dismisses the messenger of his conviction.

Ezra -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/17/2008 11:43:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: drmark quote: Please provide scripture of someone who was truly convicted yet refused to repent. Acts 24:25 is the remarkable description of a man familiar with Christianity who hears powerful preaching and comes under such intense conviction that he is "afraid" and quickly dismisses the messenger of his conviction. drmark: That is a very good reference. So is the Rich Young Ruler convicted by Christ and turning away from Him because of his love for his wealth. Furthermore some of those who were convicted but had no desire to repent were enraged by the Gospel. This is stated as "cut to the heart" ("sawn asunder") in Acts 5:33 and 7:54.

Ezra -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 12:00:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justajerk quote: Matthew 18 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. To call upon the name of the Lord is to also repent and be converted. They are two sides of the same coin. Where does this verse say that they said a prayer or asked to be converted? No, this verse does not say "they said a prayer", but calling upon the name of the Lord means a calling out to God in prayer, as the publican who said "Lord, be merciful to me a sinner", and as the thief on the cross said "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy Kingdom". quote: quote: John 3 3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Those who call upon the name of the Lord are saved. To be saved is to be justified by faith, to receive forgiveness of sins, and to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. To receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is to be born again by His power. How can a grown man be born again? Supernaturally. By the power of the Holy Spirit. Except a man be born of water AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God (Jn. 3:5). quote: quote: John 6 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Exactly. Those who are saved are given to Christ by the Father, and those who truly call upon the name of the Lord are never cast out. Now they are saved and then given to Christ? I have to ask because you said elsewhere: "But those who believe and receive Christ as saved." Please clarify, so that I can understand. Those who are saved are immediately given to Christ through the baptism by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is given as a gift to the one who believes, and at the same time, the Holy Spirit not only regenerates the believer, but places that person in the Body of Christ (Titus 3:4-7; 1 Cor. 12:13). This means that they will never be "cast out".

Ezra -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 12:21:17 AM)
quote: Conversion is a man's change of heart and new birth. Are you suggesting that man converts himself? No, men do not "convert themselves". They are converted by the power of God when they repent. Thus Peter said "Repent, and be converted". Sinners repent (have a change of heart and mind). God converts (turns about). God enables the sinner to turn from sins and idols to the living God and the Lord Jesus Christ. quote: Are you saying that to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit is to be born again and it is dependent on our calling upon God? That is exactly what Scripture teaches: "And now, why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, CALLING ON THE NAME OF THE LORD" (Acts 22:16). Since only God can wash away our sins, it should be understood as "have thy sins washed away". When a sinner genuinely calls on the name of the Lord, believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, his sins are forgiven -- "washed away". Simultaneously, the Holy Spirit is given to sanctify the one who is justified by grace and forgiven all his sins. This corresponds to John 1:12, 13 which says: "But as many as received Him, to them gave He power [authority] to become the sons of God, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God". "which were born ... of God" speaks of the New Birth. To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is to receive the New Birth. This is only possible because the gift of the Holy Spirit is given to the one who believes (Acts 2:38).

justajerk -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 1:22:59 AM)
quote: Acts 24:25 is the remarkable description of a man familiar with Christianity who hears powerful preaching and comes under such intense conviction that he is "afraid" and quickly dismisses the messenger of his conviction. Let's look at it... 22But Felix, having a rather accurate knowledge of the Way, put them off, saying, "When Lysias the tribune comes down, I will decide your case." 23Then he gave orders to the centurion that he should be kept in custody but have some liberty, and that none of his friends should be prevented from attending to his needs. 24After some days Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, and he sent for Paul and heard him speak about faith in Christ Jesus. 25And as he reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment, Felix was alarmed and said, "Go away for the present. When I get an opportunity I will summon you." 26At the same time he hoped that money would be given him by Paul. So he sent for him often and conversed with him. 27When two years had elapsed, Felix was succeeded by Porcius Festus. And desiring to do the Jews a favor, Felix left Paul in prison. This is true conviction? Alarmed, is not convicted... And it sounds to me that he would have been happy if Paul had flipped him a few bucks to get out of jail.

justajerk -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 1:30:48 AM)
quote: So is the Rich Young Ruler convicted by Christ and turning away from Him because of his love for his wealth. Loving money and possesions more than Christ is not conviction... nothing more than what all men do outside of the Holy Spirits changing the stoney heart. Sorry, not buying that one. 33When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them. I'm really disappointed... Do you really consider this conviction? 54Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. Do you understand what conviction is?

justajerk -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 1:39:20 AM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: justajerk quote: Matthew 18 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. To call upon the name of the Lord is to also repent and be converted. They are two sides of the same coin. Where does this verse say that they said a prayer or asked to be converted? No, this verse does not say "they said a prayer", but calling upon the name of the Lord means a calling out to God in prayer, as the publican who said "Lord, be merciful to me a sinner", and as the thief on the cross said "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy Kingdom". Doesn't say that either... quote: Supernaturally. By the power of the Holy Spirit. Except a man be born of water AND OF THE SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God (Jn. 3:5). So this is strictly a God thing then. (This verse didn't mention calling out to God either). quote: Those who are saved are immediately given to Christ through the baptism by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is given as a gift to the one who believes, and at the same time, the Holy Spirit not only regenerates the believer, but places that person in the Body of Christ (Titus 3:4-7; 1 Cor. 12:13). This means that they will never be "cast out". You lost me. Why does the believer need regeneration?

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 2:36:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justajerk Why does the believer need regeneration? That is an excellent question. I believe that goes along with the teaching that the natural man can repent of his sins without regeneration. I don't understand this teaching in light of 1 Corinthians 2:14. 1 Corinthians 2 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Heavendweller -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 11:00:17 AM)
Dear Ephesians, I ask this in all sincerity. Are you seeking answers or are you already convinced of what you believe? In other words, do you want to discuss the matter of why your mother has not come to a place of repentance and been regenerated because you are looking for some answers? Or are you already affirmed in your present beliefs and merely looking to understand and debate what others' beliefs are? I ask this because it seems to me (and I could misunderstand) that you are already convinced in your own mind of your beliefs and aren't looking for answers to your original question "Is God trying to save all sinners?" IOW, you believe you know the answer to this question already but just want to debate with others who have a differing opinion. Am I in the ball park? Not that there's anything wrong with wanting to debate at all. I just wasn't sure at the start of this thread whether you were searching for answers or whether you are already certain as to what you believe. After so many posts, I'm now inclined to think it's the latter. What ever the case might be, I have no doubt that you have concern for your mother's soul. Perhaps prayer and fasting is the best recourse in a situation such as hers since thus far, you have not been able to reason with her through Scripture and she has not come to a place of faith and repentance. God bless you on your journey of faith. Heavendweller

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 1:13:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra No, this verse does not say "they said a prayer", but calling upon the name of the Lord means a calling out to God in prayer, as the publican who said "Lord, be merciful to me a sinner", and as the thief on the cross said "Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy Kingdom". So when the football player speaks of the "man upstairs" he's really calling out to God? [8\|] John

Ezra -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 1:20:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32 quote: ORIGINAL: justajerk Why does the believer need regeneration? That is an excellent question. I believe that goes along with the teaching that the natural man can repent of his sins without regeneration. I don't understand this teaching in light of 1 Corinthians 2:14. 1 Corinthians 2 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Eph 4_32: I would have to agree with HeavenDweller that you are not so much seeking answers as seeking justification for your own indoctrination. Let's look at your response above. The question was asked "Why does the believer need regeneration"? The short answer is "Because that is what God requires in order for the believer to enter into the Kingdom of God and become transformed into the likeness of Christ". The order in Scripture is faith---->repentance----> regeneration, NOT regeneration----> faith----> repentance, as you wrongly believe. How do we know? I already presented John 1:12, 13, Titus 3:4-7 & Acts 2:38, and had you taken the time to carefully see what is stated, you would have discovered that the first requirement is faith, then repentance, then the gift of the Holy Spirit, then the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Ghost. As to 1 Corinthians 2:14, that is a misapplication of Scripture to the matter of response to the Gospel by sinners. The context (vv. 1-16) is "the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom" (v. 7) and what "eye hath not seen, nor ear hear, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things whihc God has prepared for them that love him" (v.9). Paul here is speaking about the deeper truths of God -- "the things of the Spirit of God" (v.14) -- which cannot be understood by human reason, but only through the illumination of the Holy Spirit. He does not say anything here about the Gospel. As to the Gospel and its reception by sinners, Paul clearly expounds on that in Romans, chapter 10:8-21, where he also indicates that "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (v. 17). Thus the Gospel becomes "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Rom. 1:16). 1 Cor. 2:14 has been repeatedly misapplied to teach that sinners cannot believe the Gospel until and unless they are regenerated. That is utterly false. Notice the progression in Acts chapter 2, which corresponds to what Paul teaches in Romans 10: 1. Peter preached the Gospel (vv. 22-36) 2. His hearers were convicted and asked what they should do(v.37) 3. Peter responded by saying that (1) they must repent and be baptized and (2) they would then receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. And without the gift of the Holy Spirit given at the time one is justified by faith, no man can be regenerated (Tit. 3:4-7).

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 1:48:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra No, men do not "convert themselves". They are converted by the power of God when they repent. Thus Peter said "Repent, and be converted". Sinners repent (have a change of heart and mind). God converts (turns about). God enables the sinner to turn from sins and idols to the living God and the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no change prior to salvation... The flesh cannot please God... Nor does it want to... You have man and God doing the same thing... No need for God to turn about a changed heart and mind, it is already where it needs to be. In fact if one were to take your words at face vaule you have God turning man back to his old ways... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 1:56:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra The order in Scripture is faith---->repentance----> regeneration, NOT regeneration----> faith----> repentance, as you wrongly believe. How do we know? I already presented John 1:12, 13, Titus 3:4-7 & Acts 2:38, and had you taken the time to carefully see what is stated, you would have discovered that the first requirement is faith, then repentance, then the gift of the Holy Spirit, then the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Ghost. Road block... Romans 8:7-8 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. quote: Paul here is speaking about the deeper truths of God -- "the things of the Spirit of God" (v.14) -- which cannot be understood by human reason, but only through the illumination of the Holy Spirit. He does not say anything here about the Gospel.As to the Gospel and its reception by sinners, Paul clearly expounds on that in Romans, chapter 10:8-21, where he also indicates that "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (v. 17). Thus the Gospel becomes "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Rom. 1:16). The word of God(the Gospel) came by the Holy Spirit... How can you exclude the Word of God from "things" of the Spirit? The very origon of the Word... quote: 1 Cor. 2:14 has been repeatedly misapplied to teach that sinners cannot believe the Gospel until and unless they are regenerated. That is utterly false. Notice the progression in Acts chapter 2, which corresponds to what Paul teaches in Romans 10: 1. Peter preached the Gospel (vv. 22-36) 2. His hearers were convicted and asked what they should do(v.37) 1 Corinthians 1:23-24 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. John

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 2:39:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra quote: ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32 quote: ORIGINAL: justajerk Why does the believer need regeneration? That is an excellent question. I believe that goes along with the teaching that the natural man can repent of his sins without regeneration. I don't understand this teaching in light of 1 Corinthians 2:14. 1 Corinthians 2 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Eph 4_32: I would have to agree with HeavenDweller that you are not so much seeking answers as seeking justification for your own indoctrination. Not only are many of your posts rude, but now you pretend to know my mind. You accuse me of being indoctrinated with certain beliefs. "Indoctrination is the process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned." FROM WIKIPEDIA I attend a Wesleyan Church. I do not intend to change churches. My husband and I take some of our grandchildren to church with us. I am not being indoctrinated, as you like to call it, with Calvinism. I study my Bible and I want to know the truth of God's word. Yes, I have questions about Arminian beliefs. Yes, I want answers that line up with what I read in my Bible. quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra Let's look at your response above. The question was asked "Why does the believer need regeneration"? The short answer is "Because that is what God requires in order for the believer to enter into the Kingdom of God and become transformed into the likeness of Christ". I believe SovereignIsHe was saying that in order for a person to become a believer, he needs to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit. So if all all believers have been regenerated, why would they need it again? quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra The order in Scripture is faith---->repentance----> regeneration, NOT regeneration----> faith----> repentance, as you wrongly believe. You ought to have left out the phrase "as you wrongly believe." That is a rude way to approach a sister in Christ. Instead of snide remarks, show me the truth from the Bible and then leave it at that. Let the Holy Spirit do His work. 2 Timothy 2 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra How do we know? I already presented John 1:12, 13, John 1 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. I see nothing Arminian about those verses. Calvinists agree that that Christians receive Christ and believe on His name. quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra Titus 3:4-7 4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Again, I see nothing Arminian in those verses. quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra & Acts 2:38, and had you taken the time to carefully see what is stated, you would have discovered that the first requirement is faith, then repentance, then the gift of the Holy Spirit, then the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Ghost. So any person who doesn't interpret that your way, has not taken the time to carefully see what is stated? quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra As to 1 Corinthians 2:14, that is a misapplication of Scripture to the matter of response to the Gospel by sinners. The context (vv. 1-16) is "the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom" (v. 7) and what "eye hath not seen, nor ear hear, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things whihc God has prepared for them that love him" (v.9). I disagree with you that I misapplied scripture. 1 Corinthians 2 9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. You may sound very dogmatic in your posts, but I don't sense the love of Christ and the meek instruction that should be there. I don't like it when people who are supposed to be siblings in Christ become haughty towards one another. Is the purpose of these discussions to see how rude we can be? quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra Paul here is speaking about the deeper truths of God -- "the things of the Spirit of God" (v.14) -- which cannot be understood by human reason, but only through the illumination of the Holy Spirit. He does not say anything here about the Gospel. As to the Gospel and its reception by sinners, Paul clearly expounds on that in Romans, chapter 10:8-21, where he also indicates that "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God" (v. 17). Thus the Gospel becomes "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Rom. 1:16). God has to open our ears and eyes to truth. Some people are presented the Gospel, but they never really hear it. They can't acknowledge the truth. 1 Corinthians 2 11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. God must give us repentance to the acknowledging of the truth.

Heavendweller -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 2:52:57 PM)
Dear Ephesians, Have you considered fasting and prayer for your mom? Also, have you asked someone else such as your pastor or another brother or sister in Christ to speak with your mom? How would she feel about that? Have you had prayer requests for her at your church? Is she on a prayer list elsewhere? What about requesting prayer for her on this forum in the prayer section, if you've not done so yet? Just some suggestions. In Christ's Love, Heavendweller

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 2:58:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller Dear Ephesians, I ask this in all sincerity. Are you seeking answers or are you already convinced of what you believe? In other words, do you want to discuss the matter of why your mother has not come to a place of repentance and been regenerated because you are looking for some answers? Yes, I want to know what the Bible teaches.

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 3:12:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller Dear Ephesians, Have you considered fasting and prayer for your mom? Also, have you asked someone else such as your pastor or another brother or sister in Christ to speak with your mom? How would she feel about that? Have you had prayer requests for her at your church? Is she on a prayer list elsewhere? What about requesting prayer for her on this forum in the prayer section, if you've not done so yet? Just some suggestions. In Christ's Love, Heavendweller Thank you for the suggestions! My mother lives several states away and won't let anyone other than family and maintenance workers in her apartment. My mother doesn't like ministers. I'm going to request prayer for my mother in the prayer section.

Heavendweller -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 3:28:39 PM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller Dear Ephesians, I ask this in all sincerity. Are you seeking answers or are you already convinced of what you believe? In other words, do you want to discuss the matter of why your mother has not come to a place of repentance and been regenerated because you are looking for some answers? Yes, I want to know what the Bible teaches. Dear Ephesians, Well, as per your question, as you can see, there is not a consensus on this particular thread of "what the Bible teaches" in this regard. Now as to your mother, not knowing her personally, I cannot say why it is that she is so opposed to God. In reference to my son, I have a pretty good grasp as to why he has deconverted and turned away from the living God. But again, I don't think the issue at hand here is whether or not you are better or brighter than your mom, or even more special to God. Sometimes these matters are beyond human comprehension. For example, yesterday my husband and I visited a lady in the hospital who is dying from cancer. Long ago she asked Christ to save her. But then she backslid into a very sinful life-style. In recent times she seems to have repented, but the majority of her life seems to be one of instability. I honestly don't know if she is a true believer in Christ or not. Nonetheless, my husband and I pray for her, and minister to her as the Holy Spirit has led us to do. Still, when asked if she believes she is going to Heaven when she dies, she says "no." She doesn't believe Christ can forgive her. We have encouraged her with all sorts of Scriptures, prayed for her in her presence, and finally given her over to the Lord. I long to hear her say with confidence, "I look forward to seeing Jesus my Lord and Savior when I leave this earthly tent." Who can know the inner workings within a person's heart but God alone? Heavendweller

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/18/2008 7:09:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller Dear Ephesians, Well, as per your question, as you can see, there is not a consensus on this particular thread of "what the Bible teaches" in this regard. Now as to your mother, not knowing her personally, I cannot say why it is that she is so opposed to God. In reference to my son, I have a pretty good grasp as to why he has deconverted and turned away from the living God. My mother does believe in God. I hesitate to use an uppercase "G," because she doesn't believe in the Triune God and there is no other. She did not turn away from God. She never knew Him in the first place. quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller But again, I don't think the issue at hand here is whether or not you are better or brighter than your mom, or even more special to God. Sometimes these matters are beyond human comprehension. If people believe that all men are equally free to choose right over wrong, then there has to be a reason for one choosing right and the other not choosing what is right. Is 2 Timothy 2:25 saying that God has to enable a person to acknowledge truth? 2 Timothy 2 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; quote: ORIGINAL: Heavendweller For example, yesterday my husband and I visited a lady in the hospital who is dying from cancer. Long ago she asked Christ to save her. But then she backslid into a very sinful life-style. In recent times she seems to have repented, but the majority of her life seems to be one of instability. I honestly don't know if she is a true believer in Christ or not. Nonetheless, my husband and I pray for her, and minister to her as the Holy Spirit has led us to do. Still, when asked if she believes she is going to Heaven when she dies, she says "no." She doesn't believe Christ can forgive her. I guess, like many others, she doesn't believe the Bible is the word of God.

drmark -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/19/2008 8:16:01 AM)
quote: If people believe that all men are equally free to choose right over wrong, then there has to be a reason for one choosing right and the other not choosing what is right. Is 2 Timothy 2:25 saying that God has to enable a person to acknowledge truth? Exactly right, Eph4_32! This is one of many "proof-texts" for the Biblical concept of prevenient grace. Pray it over your mother regularly and watch God work in her life. God cannot make anyone believe in Him, but He sure can soften their heart, lead them to knowledge, and help them come to their senses.

apologist1948 -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/19/2008 9:01:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra quote: ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32 quote: ORIGINAL: justajerk Why does the believer need regeneration? That is an excellent question. I believe that goes along with the teaching that the natural man can repent of his sins without regeneration. I don't understand this teaching in light of 1 Corinthians 2:14. 1 Corinthians 2 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [quote Ezra]Eph 4_32: I would have to agree with HeavenDweller that you are not so much seeking answers as seeking justification for your own indoctrination. How do you know the purpose or intention of this poster? quote: Let's look at your response above. The question was asked "Why does the believer need regeneration"? The short answer is "Because that is what God requires in order for the believer to enter into the Kingdom of God and become transformed into the likeness of Christ". The order in Scripture is faith---->repentance----> regeneration, NOT regeneration----> faith----> repentance, as you wrongly believe. Why do you feel the need to insert the word "wrongly?" What is your motive in posting in this manner? To humiliate someone into believing that you are right or to discuss the Bible? quote: How do we know? I already presented John 1:12, 13, Titus 3:4-7 & Acts 2:38, and had you taken the time to carefully see what is stated, you would have discovered that the first requirement is faith, then repentance, then the gift of the Holy Spirit, then the washing of regeneration and the renewal of the Holy Ghost. Again, the need to belittle the person you are addressing. I have noticed that you use two styles of posting. One, which is kind and gentle with a few "atta boys" sprinkled in for those who totally agree with and two, the sarcastic, pompous, arrogant method reserved for those who you deem to be heretics or would dare question your interpretation. I could go on with the rest of your post, but I think that you can see that you are not following the advice of Paul to Timothy: "24And the Lord�s servant must not be quarrelsome but kindly to everyone, an apt teacher, patient, 25correcting opponents with gentleness. II Timothy 2:24-25a Need I say more? I have no problem with your message, but your delivery would make my seriously consider Calvinism to insure that I would not be associated with posters who write in this manner. Now I understand the saying about Christians shooting their wounded.[:(]

Ephesians4_32 -> RE: Is God trying to save all sinners? (5/19/2008 11:47:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: drmark quote: If people believe that all men are equally free to choose right over wrong, then there has to be a reason for one choosing right and the other not choosing what is right. Is 2 Timothy 2:25 saying that God has to enable a person to acknowledge truth? Exactly right, Eph4_32! This is one of many "proof-texts" for the Biblical concept of prevenient grace. Pray it over your mother regularly and watch God work in her life. God cannot make anyone believe in Him, but He sure can soften their heart, lead them to knowledge, and help them come to their senses. Your post makes no sense to me. "God cannot make anyone believe in Him, but He sure can soften their heart, lead them to knowledge, and help them come to their senses," in particular, makes no sense. God can make people believe. My Bible says that He does. Matthew 16 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. What reason do you Arminians give that all my siblings and my parents had equal opportunity to believe as I did? It certainly isn't apparent to me. I'm willing to be convinced of that if someone would actually explain it in a way that makes some sense. God gave me conviction. I didn't give it to myself.

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