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MyMasquerade -> Excuses (5/16/2008 1:23:36 PM)

As Christians I believe with all of my heart we are called to be different. When you look (I am not refering to our physical looks) at us you should be able to tell we have something that Joe Blow on the corner doesn't have. Why are there so many times we don't look different? Then when we are asked about it or someone comments about it we will say "well I am only human" or something close to that.

Is that just an excuse for us not to be different? Well, I am only human you can't expect more from me than a non-christian. We are hurting each other and I seriously believe that we are causing more people to fall away than we are helping people to come to Jesus.

Does anyone else feel like this?



Focusing -> RE: Excuses (5/16/2008 1:55:38 PM)

Well, I think part of it is answered with another question: What do you *think* other believers should look like? Should they dress a certain way? Conduct themselves a certain way? Hang out with the *right* kinds of people?

And who's to make this determination?

There are some believers who are quite righteous ... they truly believe that people who do not wear dresses, pantyhose and heels, or a suit and tie to church defines their love for the Lord. They believe if you don't sing certain songs a certain way ... well, clearly you aren't concerned with pleasing the Lord. Some even believe that if single people date, it is an automatic sin and they cannot possibly be concerned about their relationship with the Lord.

Some believers know that they need to reach people at their own level ... no matter what that is. They might even *gasp* have tattoos, dress in worn out blue jeans and t-shirts, listen to styles of music, or even use language that may be considered unacceptable to other believers.

Jesus hung out with the sinners, involved Himself in their lives, at their level intentionally so He could reach them ... He wasn't concerned with what others thought of Him.

I think that just because it's not obvious to everyone, doesn't mean we aren't different. Even though we are not of this world, we still live in it.



MyMasquerade -> RE: Excuses (5/16/2008 2:11:49 PM)

I am not talking about the way we look physically. What I personally think that needs to be different is how we treat people. I think we should show love to the unloveable when the world doesn't.

Who should make this determination - God. We should know in our hearts when we are and aren't doing things right. If you have a good prayer life and a good relationship with God, the holy spirit will convict you to change the way you are and you won't use the excuse I am just human.

We are supposed to be in this world, not of this world. To me that means that even though I may have to work with unbelievers or deal with them in a certain way that I should not act like they do. If profanity is flowing out of their mouth we don't need to copy them, we need to show them love and respect and make them want to copy us. Not the other way around.



Focusing -> RE: Excuses (5/16/2008 4:09:06 PM)

Yes. Absolutely, our actions should indicate that we follow after Christ.

Sorry, I think there was a miscommunication ... I've recently left a church that determined whether we represented Christ was based upon so many *other* things. Many did not look at the action itself (an outreach from our heart), but rather what the action looked like to them. I hope that makes sense. I think we're on the same page. [:)]

I think the "well I am only human" can be a prideful comment, and it should spur us to look more deeply into our actions, and cause us to converse with God, repent and reflect Him.

"We should know in our hearts when we are and aren't doing things right" ... I think this is all part of the process of sanctification. There are times I've learned in my walk with the Lord that what I have been doing was not what I should have been doing. In a Bible study I'm in, the term used is not coming to mind right now, but Paul believed wholeheartedly that what he was doing was correct in those first days after his conversion ... until he was called out on it and he realized the error of his way ... and that was when he started his years in solitude studying. I think we can go through a similar transformation, not usually to the extent Paul did, but in smaller increments.



pbaribeault -> RE: Excuses (5/16/2008 6:36:08 PM)

One of the sources of tension in groups of Christians is that many of us don't realize that God has given us each unique gifts and a calling. When God makes us passionate about some kind of ministry, it seems so blindingly important to us that we wonder how others can be missing the boat about that ministry.

You, clearly have a calling and a passion about a ministry of love, service and example towards unlovely unbelievers. You see the way others might not respond to that group of people with your depth of compassion and dedication -- it would be easy to misinterpret that as them just not being very plugged into God's compassion and dedication towards that group. You might get caught up wondering what people think they are doing if they are not attending to this incredibly valuable ministry.

Perhaps they are attending to some other incredibly valuable ministry.

The lady in our Church who is passionate about the spiritual nurture and care of infants and toddlers notices every child under 3 that she has ever seen. She knows all their names, their parents, their temperaments, likes and dislikes, their parent's rules and whether or not they are potty trained. And they know her, and they love her.

She's not paying much attention to street people, but you're not paying much attention to babies. This is part of God's design. Likewise, I forget the names of ordinary people at Church, but I remember Scripture, mentally cross-reference it, think through the implications of the original languages and make sure that any application point is genuinely supported by the text being referenced. Not everybody does that... so maybe it's hard to 'see a difference'.

Sometimes, "I'm only human" means that we can't all have all the gifts, so we'd better work together.



pstrdebi -> RE: Excuses (5/16/2008 7:55:18 PM)

I would say that there probably are some that could use the "I'm only human" card in order to make constant excuses. I have known people like this. Those, however, I believe, are the ones who do not have a truly repentant heart. IMO they are the ones who are in willful sin and have the flippant attitude that, "oh well, I'll just repent tomorrow."

There are those who, try hard as they may, to stay on the straight and narrow... slip on occasion and they "are only human's" that get up, dust themselves, and strive to be a "person after God's own heart."

Of course there are all measures of maturity mixed in and throughout those two examples... and in reality, only God knows the depths of their hearts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault

The lady in our Church who is passionate about the spiritual nurture and care of infants and toddlers notices every child under 3 that she has ever seen. She knows all their names, their parents, their temperaments, likes and dislikes, their parent's rules and whether or not they are potty trained. And they know her, and they love her.


I know this lady. There was one in my old church (before pastoring). My kids have known her all their lives... and they started in her nursery being cared for and nurtured. (they are all grown now... and still keep in touch!)

A dear brother was has since passed, told me once of a wonderful appointment he had once. He was, at the time, in his 30's and he and his wife began a bus ministry. They went to visit with an elderly woman who cared for little one's regarding this bus ministry (or something like that)... When he approached her and introduced himself, she said, "I know who you are Johnny..." Turned out this woman used to care for him when he was a tot and a youngster... and still remembered him. Not only that, she pulled out an old book that listed all the names of the children she cared for over the years, that she continued to pray over!! WOW!!!
(sorry. that was a little off-topic[:)])

quote:

ORIGINAL: Focusing
They might even *gasp* have tattoos, dress in worn out blue jeans and t-shirts, listen to styles of music...... that may be considered unacceptable to other believers.


OH MY GOSH!!!! [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]
I understand what you were thinking about. When the big uricane (edit: that would be Huricane) hit in Florida a few years ago (the one before Katrina) my son decided to set out on a solo missions trip. He packed up some stuff and his dog and headed out from Cal. to Florida([:o]this is a mom remembering the feelings of fear when he went). He visited many churches on the way and while he was there... and he got such a mixed response. He is far, far from attireing himself the way many do... just an earring, a couple tats (one of Jesus), and a goat (kinda like the one David Crowder had, but not so long.) Oh, and he wore a baseball cap... oh no!!! and jeans. But you wouldn't find a more respectul, giving guy in all your life. This kid would give you the shirt off his back... his shoes, his money... all while sharing the love of Christ. He worked his backside off for complete stangers for 3 months in Florida... yet received such opposition from some about a stupid thing like attire!

Can't understand people... Praise God we have Jesus grace!
Blessings...
Pastor Debi [:)]



zamdad -> RE: Excuses (5/17/2008 12:28:30 AM)

quote:

MyMasquerade
As Christians I believe with all of my heart we are called to be different. When you look (I am not refering to our physical looks) at us you should be able to tell we have something that Joe Blow on the corner doesn't have. Why are there so many times we don't look different? Then when we are asked about it or someone comments about it we will say "well I am only human" or something close to that.

Is that just an excuse for us not to be different? Well, I am only human you can't expect more from me than a non-christian. We are hurting each other and I seriously believe that we are causing more people to fall away than we are helping people to come to Jesus.

Does anyone else feel like this?


It's funny how, when you say this referring to how we should look, people jump to conclusions about physical appearance. If Jesus lives in us, He should be evident in our character. OUr conduct, the result of our thinking, should make others thirsty for Him.

Seems to me that the reason so many people who profess Christ don't look any different than the world comes down to worldview. World view is how we think about the world we live in; how we relate to the world we live in and how we process information. Most of us take in more information via mass media than we do scripture (I too am guilty as charged). We tend to think about the world we live in based on the information we are presented by whatever form of media we choose to watch, listen to, or read. All too often we are so busy taking in and processing information from the world that we don't slow down enough to listen to what God is trying to tell us. We become so focused on events/activities so far outside our circle of influence that we neglect those inside that circle while trying to solve problems way beyond our ability.

When we're taking in more of the worlds message than God's message, should we expect more of Christ from those who profess Him?



pstrdebi -> RE: Excuses (5/17/2008 1:11:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

When we're taking in more of the worlds message than God's message, should we expect more of Christ from those who profess Him?


Hi Zamdad! How are you?

This is a very profound statement. And I would have to say no. We've talked before about some of the people we've worked with... If "Christians" are behaving, thinking, etc... the same as some of these folks in the world (and we've seen this) we cannot expect anything more than worldly behavior. ie: blaming God for red lights, deaths, not winning at the races... yelling at him because we have a wicked spouse, or because we lose a job.

One thing we might be sure of... atheists probably don't blame God or yell at him! [8|]

Blessings
Pastor Debi
[:)]



buckifn -> RE: Excuses (5/17/2008 4:33:45 AM)

If you can't see a difference there probably is no difference. "We shall know them by the fruit they bear"



MyMasquerade -> RE: Excuses (5/18/2008 10:23:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: buckifn

If you can't see a difference there probably is no difference. "We shall know them by the fruit they bear"



Amen



zamdad -> RE: Excuses (5/18/2008 5:38:24 PM)

quote:

One thing we might be sure of... atheists probably don't blame God or yell at him!


Isn't intersting, though, how when those who say they don't belive in God curse him when they hit their thumb with a hammer. Unfortunately, I've heard too many professing belivers use His name in vain for much less painful things.



MyMasquerade -> RE: Excuses (5/19/2008 1:53:47 PM)

My goal is to life a life that is beyond reproach. I want to be more like Jesus and be able to show the love of Jesus. I just wish I would feel his presence more. I feel so isolated right now.



small_creation -> RE: Excuses (5/19/2008 3:18:10 PM)

pbaribeault, may I say that your gift is posting clear & compassionate & biblical summaries on these threads? Truly you have helped many understand simple truths with your common sense interpretations of the bible. Thank you.

j



gmc4Jesus -> RE: Excuses (5/20/2008 7:54:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MyMasquerade

As Christians I believe with all of my heart we are called to be different. When you look (I am not refering to our physical looks) at us you should be able to tell we have something that Joe Blow on the corner doesn't have. Why are there so many times we don't look different? Then when we are asked about it or someone comments about it we will say "well I am only human" or something close to that.

Is that just an excuse for us not to be different? Well, I am only human you can't expect more from me than a non-christian. We are hurting each other and I seriously believe that we are causing more people to fall away than we are helping people to come to Jesus.

Does anyone else feel like this?


If Jesus has come into our hearts, we will want to change our behavior to reflect His life and teachings. In Romans 6, Paul reminds us that we were freed from sin when we were immersed in Jesus name. We were born again with the power of the Holy Spirit to recognize temptation and say "no" when tempted. The challenge is to convince ourselves of that change so we will act like people who truly believe in and follow Jesus.

One of the greatest needs I have observed in churches is a lack of knowledge of the life and teachings of Jesus on the part of most members. Part of the solution to your comments would be for people to study Jesus' life on a regular basis and allow Him to influence how they live.

They will know we are Christians by our love.



BibleL7 -> RE: Excuses (5/24/2008 4:34:29 AM)

MyMasquerade

You are right that Christians should be different than the rest of the world. This is why Paul said to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. As Christians we are to be not of the world though in it. One problem is that many so called churches do not teach about sin and repentance and the need of a Savior. If we are truly following the Lord Jesus then we are showing love towards others for this is how Jesus said they would know we are His followers that we love one another. Walking with the Lord can be difficult at times and many times it seems we are alone in doing so. This is why we are to not forsake the gathering together of the saints. We need to be in fellowship with other believers regularly and being taught the Word of the Lord. The way we become more like Jesus is to feed the Spirit and starve the flesh. We need to have sound Biblical preaching often as well as Bible study and regular praise and worship as well as prayer. I know many think we need programs but the Word says that faith comes from hearing the Word. Even pastors and preachers grow more when hearing good biblical preaching. One of the things that has helped me is listening to Christian radio at least in our area we have some good stations that not only play music but also have teachings and reading of the Bible. It helps also to sing His praises any time any where. This helps us focus on Jesus and His word and feeds the Spirit. If we continue in feeding on worldly things and not Spiritual things then we only strengthen the flesh.

Yes Jesus went to sinners and taught them and ate with them but He did not participate in the same passions they did. He also spent much time in prayer and in fellowship with the Father and spent time teaching the disciples apart from the world. Jesus prayed that His followers be not of the world though they were still in it. Remember we are know by our fruit and a good tree will not give forth bad fruit.



rosamaria -> RE: Excuses (5/24/2008 6:09:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

I would say that there probably are some that could use the "I'm only human" card in order to make constant excuses. I have known people like this. Those, however, I believe, are the ones who do not have a truly repentant heart. IMO they are the ones who are in willful sin and have the flippant attitude that, "oh well, I'll just repent tomorrow."

There are those who, try hard as they may, to stay on the straight and narrow... slip on occasion and they "are only human's" that get up, dust themselves, and strive to be a "person after God's own heart."

Of course there are all measures of maturity mixed in and throughout those two examples... and in reality, only God knows the depths of their hearts.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault




OH MY GOSH!!!! [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]
I understand what you were thinking about. When the big uricane (edit: that would be Huricane) hit in Florida a few years ago (the one before Katrina) my son decided to set out on a solo missions trip. He packed up some stuff and his dog and headed out from Cal. to Florida([:o]this is a mom remembering the feelings of fear when he went). He visited many churches on the way and while he was there... and he got such a mixed response. He is far, far from attireing himself the way many do... just an earring, a couple tats (one of Jesus), and a goat (kinda like the one David Crowder had, but not so long.) Oh, and he wore a baseball cap... oh no!!! and jeans. But you wouldn't find a more respectul, giving guy in all your life. This kid would give you the shirt off his back... his shoes, his money... all while sharing the love of Christ. He worked his backside off for complete stangers for 3 months in Florida... yet received such opposition from some about a stupid thing like attire!

Can't understand people... Praise God we have Jesus grace!
Blessings...
Pastor Debi [:)]



Pastor Debi..[sm=wave.gif]
May I ask ..how long were you a pastor?... How do you feel about women Pastors'?... I always come across debates' dealing with this.. and I would appreciate you help on this topic,, and especially of Scripture.. thank you do deeply,, Pastor Deb!!

And about the HURRICAN .. YES.. my appartment was torn down by that storm.. and you are correct about churches here in Florida,, it is really sad,
I live here in Florida for a little bit, cuz I came down here to care for my grandmama.. and she died recently ,, sad. But back to your son.. yes.. it is not right of such attitude cuz of what we wear.. deeply sad,, And I am having a problem now finding a home church,, A church I went to just recently separate,, terrible.. and I am just a baby christian ,, if you know what I mean by that..

Well, thank you for answering my questions,, thank you so much.. what part of Florida is you son at.. I live in Port Charlotte Florida.. and still looking for a decent Church that Centers' Jesus Christ.. yes..


much love,
blessings,
rosamaria..

(((looking forward for your reply, thanks)))[;)]



rosamaria -> RE: Excuses (6/14/2008 12:51:56 AM)

BUMP



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Excuses (6/14/2008 1:03:34 AM)

Driving home from work every evening, I come off the freeway, up to a 4-way stop on a five-lane street. There are big signs everywhere, "Do Not Block Intersection." And every day, several cars block it, sometimes causing those coming off the freeway to sit through red lights until the blockers clear the intersection.

Well, I was irritated today with the young lady who sat square in the middle of the intersection in her big ol' 4-wheel drive, applying her makeup. So when I got the green light, seeing she was going to be able to move soon, I drove my little bitty car right up to the side of her vehicle and glared at her. Undaunted, she moved on down the street while I steamed.

That niggling little voice in my head asked, "What if one of the leaders from your congregation had seen your attitude just now?" I would have been very embarrassed.

Then I thought, "My L-rd saw it." I was ashamed.

Then I weighed the L-rd seeing what I did against a leader of my congregation it, and I realized that I am less embarrassed about what He sees than I am about what a leader would see.

Hmmmm.

Reality check.

Attitude and thought adjustment needed.



jn1010lf -> RE: Excuses (6/15/2008 8:38:52 AM)

Hello MyMasquerade

Come now. We are different because Christ live in us. So, we are not trapped by the lusts of this world. We have been brought from death to life.

Therefore, when one comments that you are different, don't just say that your human. Tell them that Christ has made a difference you your life and share the blessings that they can have if they would allow Christ to live in them.



Liveloved -> RE: Excuses (6/15/2008 7:22:11 PM)

quote:

One of the sources of tension in groups of Christians is that many of us don't realize that God has given us each unique gifts and a calling. When God makes us passionate about some kind of ministry, it seems so blindingly important to us that we wonder how others can be missing the boat about that ministry.

You, clearly have a calling and a passion about a ministry of love, service and example towards unlovely unbelievers. You see the way others might not respond to that group of people with your depth of compassion and dedication -- it would be easy to misinterpret that as them just not being very plugged into God's compassion and dedication towards that group. You might get caught up wondering what people think they are doing if they are not attending to this incredibly valuable ministry.

Perhaps they are attending to some other incredibly valuable ministry.

The lady in our Church who is passionate about the spiritual nurture and care of infants and toddlers notices every child under 3 that she has ever seen. She knows all their names, their parents, their temperaments, likes and dislikes, their parent's rules and whether or not they are potty trained. And they know her, and they love her.

She's not paying much attention to street people, but you're not paying much attention to babies. This is part of God's design. Likewise, I forget the names of ordinary people at Church, but I remember Scripture, mentally cross-reference it, think through the implications of the original languages and make sure that any application point is genuinely supported by the text being referenced. Not everybody does that... so maybe it's hard to 'see a difference'.

Sometimes, "I'm only human" means that we can't all have all the gifts, so we'd better work together.


Amen to these words/thoughts. Such truth. If only some of those leading the churches I have been in would have this kind of understanding. Thank you, pbaribeault, for doing such a good job of offering godly wisdom in response to this question. [:)]



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