places of "ill repute" (Full Version)

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MissInnocent -> places of "ill repute" (5/16/2008 6:14:03 PM)

I know this is an odd question but I said something to someone earlier and am kinda hoping to confirm it.

Are establishments of ill repute ALWAYS places where sex for money takes place or does it also include strip clubs were simply dancing naked (or mostly) for cash but no sex occurs?



LCannon -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/16/2008 6:46:24 PM)

Well, er, I haven't had much experience(none)in this arena but I'm sure some clubs are 'prostitution free' relying on their cover/food/drink charges but some of the dancers are 'independent contractors'. How many, percentage? I wouldn't hazard a guess.



MissInnocent -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/16/2008 7:36:21 PM)

Well I have not and never will take part in such work or places. But I do know that while yes sometimes things happen when the girls leave the clubs. And there are some clubs where sex does take place in VIP rooms...there are also some clubs that will fire the girl for ...um giving the clients extra service.

While it's wrong to both visit a strip joint and just watch AND to have sex with someone you are not married to (hooker or other wise) the question still stands do you call strip joints "places of ill repute"? I say yes.



Bluethread -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/16/2008 7:55:08 PM)

Biblically speaking, there is no clear commandment regarding viewing someone who is not your relative naked. Yeshua's prohibition is basically, adutory is in the eye of the beholder, as long as there is no touching. In fact I am not sure if fornication is directly prohibited, however, there are status that give guidance on how to handle the consequences. I know this sounds like license to sin, but if someone could find the verse, I would be happy to be proven wrong.



DChap -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/16/2008 8:04:07 PM)

would you walk into a strip club with someone you were witnessing to? that's the answer i think.



MissInnocent -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/16/2008 8:41:11 PM)

Bluethread the belief in the rules for this board (and my personal beliefs as well) are that sex is ONLY to take place inside of LEGAL marriage between ONE man and ONE woman. So yes fornication is a sin. And I would prefer this thread not turn into a debate on that.

DChap, while the direct answer to your question is no I wouldn't. There is a ministry called Jesus Christ' Girls Girls Girls where former strippers who have found Jesus go to strip clubs and porn conventions to minister to folks and lead them from their sinful ways to Christ. And I think that's a good thing. But for most of us no I wouldn't suggest attempting to witnesses to folks in those places cause it would just be too hard for us not to stumble.



LCannon -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/17/2008 12:01:36 AM)

"places of ill repute", "dens of iniquity" or whatever, for my money(bad choice of words...), regardless of the 'level' of intimacy, the effect on the viewer(for indulger)has to be the same, debauchery.



StephK -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/17/2008 12:34:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissInnocent

I know this is an odd question but I said something to someone earlier and am kinda hoping to confirm it.

Are establishments of ill repute ALWAYS places where sex for money takes place or does it also include strip clubs were simply dancing naked (or mostly) for cash but no sex occurs?



On paper of course not since it's illegal in all but Nevada. But realistically, I'm sure there's some form of agreements reached a lot of the time. If they are willing to take it off for $$$$$ then they probably are willing to get paid. There are several places like that around here that get raided every so often for prostitution.



zamdad -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/17/2008 12:43:25 AM)

quote:

Are establishments of ill repute ALWAYS places where sex for money takes place or does it also include strip clubs were simply dancing naked (or mostly) for cash but no sex occurs?


Wheether sex happens or not, strip clubs are about sex. They are about selling something that arouses lust. They are places that encourage fornication; sex outside the confines of the marriage bed. Even if the person who pays to go to a club, whether it's simply buying drinks of putting money in the dancers thong, and then goes home to have sex with a spouse, there is an external source of lust to incite sexual activity within the marriage. it's not a whole lot different than invinting a third person into the realtionship.



redeemedsaint -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/17/2008 9:34:40 AM)

I wouldn't go into places like this. Now I guess girls who work there, working girls get benefits like health and dental. That is from what I have read.



rcjames -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/17/2008 10:31:39 AM)

(1Th 5:22) Abstain from all appearance of evil.



Thanks
RC



MissInnocent -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/17/2008 4:52:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zamdad

Wheether sex happens or not, strip clubs are about sex. They are about selling something that arouses lust. They are places that encourage fornication; sex outside the confines of the marriage bed. Even if the person who pays to go to a club, whether it's simply buying drinks of putting money in the dancers thong, and then goes home to have sex with a spouse, there is an external source of lust to incite sexual activity within the marriage. it's not a whole lot different than invinting a third person into the realtionship.


Ya know that is something that bugs the daylights outta me! Granted the people I know who say this for the most part are NOT professing Christians so how can they be expected to care about the sancitity of marriage?....but I have heard some wives say they ENJOY going to strip clubs with their hubby and they get aroused seeing him aroused by the strippers. AND they are happy he gets aroused by the strippers cause it means less work for them when they get home. Instead of taking the time to get him worked up they can just get on with it.

Now perhaps it's my unmarried virgin naivete...but I think hey YOU'RE the wife so it's YOUR job to get him worked up. [&:]



9drtr -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/17/2008 6:53:57 PM)

I understand the term "house of ill repute" to be a synonym for brothel. Irrespective of the morality of strip joints, the term has traditionally referred to something else.



DaveW -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/23/2008 12:13:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

(1Th 5:22) Abstain from all appearance of evil.
I hope you are not taking that to mean to avoid stuff that looks bad.... that is not what that verse is about (quirk of english)



JimboFletch -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/23/2008 5:26:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

(1Th 5:22) Abstain from all appearance of evil.
I hope you are not taking that to mean to avoid stuff that looks bad.... that is not what that verse is about (quirk of english)

Dave, that's what it looks like in context, avoid every kind of evil or abstain from every form of evil.

What is it supposed to mean?



JimboFletch -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/23/2008 5:28:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DChap

would you walk into a strip club with someone you were witnessing to? that's the answer i think.

Here's another one: "Would I go to the place with my pastor, mother, wife, and adult daughter?"



DaveW -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/27/2008 6:42:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

Dave, that's what it looks like in context, avoid every kind of evil or abstain from every form of evil.

What is it supposed to mean?
You got it right: every form and kind of evil. That is way different from something that may look like sin but actually is not. The latter is what it sounded like to me that RC might have been saying. I am just trying to clarify.



P31W -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/27/2008 7:26:38 AM)

Dave I am glad you clarified. When I saw what you wrote I could not help but wonder myself and was going to PM you about it.



Soxfan -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/29/2008 2:22:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

Biblically speaking, there is no clear commandment regarding viewing someone who is not your relative naked. Yeshua's prohibition is basically, adutory is in the eye of the beholder, as long as there is no touching. In fact I am not sure if fornication is directly prohibited, however, there are status that give guidance on how to handle the consequences. I know this sounds like license to sin, but if someone could find the verse, I would be happy to be proven wrong.


Hmmm....guess you missed Matthew 5:28:

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. "



Bro_Shane -> RE: places of "ill repute" (5/29/2008 2:38:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

Biblically speaking, there is no clear commandment regarding viewing someone who is not your relative naked. Yeshua's prohibition is basically, adutory is in the eye of the beholder, as long as there is no touching. In fact I am not sure if fornication is directly prohibited, however, there are status that give guidance on how to handle the consequences. I know this sounds like license to sin, but if someone could find the verse, I would be happy to be proven wrong.



Fornication is most certainly prohibited:

Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

I Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication

II Peter 2:11-12 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; [12] Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

All emphasis has been added by me on the above verses.

Also, there with all due respect, there is nothing in scripture that leaves the possibility open that Christ could have possibly meant that adultery "was in the eye of the beholder." What He did say was:

Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

There are no exclusions here about how much or little clothing is worn. Note there is also no wiggle room (sorry, bad pun, but I couldn't resist) as to whether we get to decide what is or is not adultery.



bluegravel -> RE: places of "ill repute" (6/6/2008 7:53:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

Biblically speaking, there is no clear commandment regarding viewing someone who is not your relative naked. Yeshua's prohibition is basically, adutory is in the eye of the beholder, as long as there is no touching. In fact I am not sure if fornication is directly prohibited, however, there are status that give guidance on how to handle the consequences. I know this sounds like license to sin, but if someone could find the verse, I would be happy to be proven wrong.



You're kidding, right? this is just another thread that should not even
be here............so edifying



john_mark -> RE: places of "ill repute" (6/6/2008 8:06:10 PM)

to the OP,

when i was much younger and not walking with the Lord, i frequented some of these establishments. I never engaged in any contact with the dancers, but to answer your question is some clubs sex does occur and in some it does not and that is striclty enforced. most often the men in these clubs become so drunk that the sexual aspect diminishes as the night wears on. having been with freinds in a regular bar and a strip club, we always seemed to get more drunk in a strip club. as i think back on it, it was probably to cover our shame of being there



BibleBased -> RE: places of "ill repute" (6/8/2008 7:40:11 AM)

Why do some Christians find the right path, but prefer to spend time with those who haven't IN places that most Christians want to run a mile from. There is hardly, if any?, non believers who can't be approached in a safe place - away from any evil they do.

Show me a person who doesn't buy grocerys for one example. Or go to the shopping centre for everything else they need to buy. Engage them THERE. Why go to a drug house? Why go to pubs or clubs? Why go to brothels or strip clubs? You can reach out to the same people in 'safer' enviroments.

You do NOT have a personal shield, being a Christian. You can be physically attacked. You can be raped. You can be tempted to sin - however strong you think your faith is. Think of some famous preachers who helped so many and then 'fell into sin' themselves.

Avoid these places. Take part in Christian groups and activities. Mix with trustworthy believers.

If you THEN want to do outreach/ witnessing - do it safely, where SATAN can't easily attack on so many levels. Don't go near these places, especially if they were your normal location before finding faith. The whole place, sin, people's attitude should discust you. Meet those same people elsewhere in their lives. God bless, BibleBased.



bluegravel -> RE: places of "ill repute" (6/8/2008 10:41:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BibleBased

Why do some Christians find the right path, but prefer to spend time with those who haven't IN places that most Christians want to run a mile from. There is hardly, if any?, non believers who can't be approached in a safe place - away from any evil they do.

Show me a person who doesn't buy grocerys for one example. Or go to the shopping centre for everything else they need to buy. Engage them THERE. Why go to a drug house? Why go to pubs or clubs? Why go to brothels or strip clubs? You can reach out to the same people in 'safer' enviroments.

You do NOT have a personal shield, being a Christian. You can be physically attacked. You can be raped. You can be tempted to sin - however strong you think your faith is. Think of some famous preachers who helped so many and then 'fell into sin' themselves.

Avoid these places. Take part in Christian groups and activities. Mix with trustworthy believers.

If you THEN want to do outreach/ witnessing - do it safely, where SATAN can't easily attack on so many levels. Don't go near these places, especially if they were your normal location before finding faith. The whole place, sin, people's attitude should discust you. Meet those same people elsewhere in their lives. God bless, BibleBased.



VERY well said!



9drtr -> RE: places of "ill repute" (6/8/2008 5:23:08 PM)

Hold it a second! How did pubs get included with drug houses and brothels? How precisely is having a pint of Smithwicks comparable to getting a lungful of crack or exchanging bodily fluids with a prostitute?

Try to get a little perspective, eh?



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