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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/21/2008 10:41:30 PM
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devinevessel
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephenJ
I've heard some Christian ladies make statements that are somewhat akin to this. It seems odd considering that our society seems to push men to be so much more sensative than in the past.
Can anyone shine some light on why some Christian women think this way?
(Perhaps this works better in the She said forum or relationships but I'm curious to hear from guys too.)
Because many Christian men are wimpy. We've been so ingrained to be gentle and accepting that most men have lost their backbone. Jesus was very gentle when he needed to be, but he could whup up on people when He needed to also.
So many men (Christian and lost) have bought into the kinder/gentler story. Then they whine because the women won't go out with them but go out with "bad boys" instead. Well most bad boys have a backbone. Women don't want to marry women, they want to marry men. Unfortunately many males never learn how to be men. They either get stuck as boys or become feminized pseudo men instead.
Note that it's posisbel to be kind, polite, gentle etc and still be a man. Jesus was so we can be too. But far too many pick up all teh soft traits and lay down the hard traits. We have to be strong, steadfast, faithful, hard working, bold etc while still being gentle kind etc.
We need to speak up against the things that are wrong (Abortion and homosexuality for example) without worrying about offending the people in those lifestyles. Those people need to be offended. How else will they open their eyes to see the truth?
The church in general has made it entirely too easy for people to go to hell these days. 'Well we wouldn't want to impose our values on them." Hogwash. They either accept our (biblical) values or they go to hell. Why do so many remain silent?
(Sorry. Major soapbox issue for me)
quote:
speak up against the things that are wrong (Abortion and homosexuality for example) without worrying about offending the people in those lifestyles. Those people need to be offended. How else will they open their eyes to see the truth?
I agree with what John said!
If men only start acting like men, women wouldn't have to start acting like men.
This brings up a conversation I had with my female friends a couple of days ago. There are some women that appraoch men, ask men out ,ect. My friends were saying that this makes it hard for the rest of the girls who want to be pursued since men are used to being approach. It really makes you wonder.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/21/2008 10:54:55 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
This is just my opinion, but when I encounter someone who must debate every little thing I say, it's irritating.
As you wish. On this topic I will ignore you.
_____________________________
Resistance is futile (if less than .25 ohms)
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/21/2008 11:08:31 PM
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John_O
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I didn't want to be seen as wimpy for not responding to this post.
quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
John, someone who does have a "friends-first" perspective could say the very same thing of you ignoring what they're saying . . . BUT!  just because someone passionately believes an ideal doesn't mean that everyone else has to agree with said ideal.
That's not "ignoring".
Just because you don't believe in the "friends-first" philosophy doesn't mean that everyone else has to not adhere to it neither.
I never said that they did. I merely pointed out that a woman doing the friends first thing has to give the guy hope that he's not been rejected again. (Same point I make every six months when the topic comes up, and the same point no one ever seems to hear.)
quote:
Additionally, "most" isn't all (as in "most men view those words.").
There are plenty of people (both men and women) who disagree with your viewpoint.
Truth. But do you want to exclude all those people who disagree with you from your pool of potentials?
_____________________________
Resistance is futile (if less than .25 ohms)
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 5:35:13 AM
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makarizo
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quote:
John_O:
A man who is intentional about finding a wife isn't going to wait around for someone who's not interested in him.
this statement is not true.
maybe "an old man.....", but I have listened to wayyy too many married men recall their pursuit of the woman (his wife) who was not interested in them at all.... how long it took for them to get noticed "that way"... what extremes they took. - my dad has a story like that!!!!
quote:
a single man should not be close friends with a married woman, and vice versa. It is almost adulterous.
the bible is very clear about what adultery is. if you see a single man who is good friends with a married woman, do you call them adulterers???
this statements -your words- (almost) gives you the right to judge, throw stones, and name call.
Trust issues are deal breakers & and making rules up that feed ones insecurities........ that little 'rule' booklet was made for wimpy men!!!!!!!
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 9:16:20 AM
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landabee
Posts: 2998
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quote:
the bible is very clear about what adultery is. if you see a single man who is good friends with a married woman, do you call them adulterers???
this statements -your words- (almost) gives you the right to judge, throw stones, and name call.
Trust issues are deal breakers & and making rules up that feed ones insecurities........ that little 'rule' booklet was made for wimpy men!!!!!!!
**********landabee applauds doer wildly************
< Message edited by landabee -- 5/22/2008 9:22:43 AM >
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"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 9:25:13 AM
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landabee
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quote:
I understand what you are saying about relationships and dating. My views on this are somewhat unpopular here on the threads but would it really hurt to try something new if what you are doing now is not working?
I believe that a girl feels somewhat insecure nowdays and would really like to know someone before they date them. Yes, this means that she would like to be friends first. Be her friend. Invest time and energy into getting to know her before you ask her out. It will be so much easier to gage if she is interested enough to ask out if you already spend some time together. Again I know there are those that disagree with me and fine if what you are doing is working great. But if it isn't the only thing you will be doing differently by doing it as I suggest is making a friend. We can never have to many friends.
~Blessings~
Nadine, thank you for saying this. I often feel as if it just isn't worth the heartburn in this folder to venture a thought out of line with the experts on manhood and relationships in this folder.
There is no formula to this experience we call life, save one: John 3:16
To have differing views and ideas that aren't extrabiblical struck down out of hand, is frustrating.
Now, that being said:
I certainly will not date a person that I cannot see as a good friend first. Any man that is not confident enough in his self worth and esteem not to be able to wait long enough for me to feel secure in his company... isn't for me.
Besides, I want to marry my best friend. Friendship is the foundational level of emotional intimacy.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 9:28:26 AM
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landabee
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
Just saying this has been my experience. The best relationships I have been in have started out with us being friends. I realize it isn't the most popular thought expressed here in singles. In fact, I think I'm in a tiny minority. It's what works for me.
It's not that it's unpopular. It's that it is unworkable for the vast majority of people. Once a friend, never a date tends to be the rule for most people. Ladder theory again.
Part of who I am . . . I simply don't subscribe to popular theories. In fact, it wasn't until last year, here in Singles' Folder, that I had ever even heard of the ladder theory.
Just another popular formula, in my view.
Sharon-Marie... stick in this folder and as the seasons change and the years go by, there will be waves of theories.
There are some that never go away, but yearly there are more to replace the temporal.
Thankfully, for those of that are unaware of the theory du jour...... we can pray and ask the Holy Spirit for guidance.
_____________________________
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it." ~ CourdeLeon
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 9:42:40 AM
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pedro-
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I guess "adulterous" wasn't a good way for John to put it, but I know for one I wouldn't want my wife to be "close" friends with another -especially single- man. I don't really want to get into it though. It could just be that the word "close" has different meanings to each of us, and that's why we disagree.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 10:41:04 AM
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WaitingforBoaz
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
Rabblerousing, grunting, bossiness and obstinance aren't manly. They are pubescent acting out.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 1:12:04 PM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doer
quote:
a single man should not be close friends with a married woman, and vice versa. It is almost adulterous.
the bible is very clear about what adultery is.
If a man sees a woman to lust after her he has committed adultery with her in his heart
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Lust is not just a sexual feeling. If you become close friends with a married woman and just once think "I wish she was mine" or even "I wish she was single" You've committed adultery.
quote:
if you see a single man who is good friends with a married woman, do you call them adulterers???
this statements -your words- (almost) gives you the right to judge, throw stones, and name call.
Trust issues are deal breakers & and making rules up that feed ones insecurities........ that little 'rule' booklet was made for wimpy men!!!!!!!
How many adulterous affairs start between total strangers compared to those that start between close friends?
Is it wise to put yourself into temptation that can easily be avoided?
Is our witness important to maintain?
Is the opinion of your (future) spouse and your friend's (future) spouse worth anything to you? Why would you give confidences and time and attention to someone else when you could give those things to your spouse
(and we are to judge within the church (1 Cor 5). We are to be accountable to each other.)
This is not a trust issue in my book. It's an obedience issue. When God gives me a wife I am to cleave to her. To be joined together with her. And to let not man put asunder (man here is the general usage, it includes, me, my wife, our families, and all other men and women)
So as a married man I find myself in need of a woman's companionship (not sex, just company) Who do I go to, the one I am joined together with or someone else? Say I find myself with an issue that I need a woman's opinion on. Who do I go to, the one I'm joined together with, or someone else? What possible need would I have for a single female close friend if I'm married?
(Edited to fix many typos)
< Message edited by John_O -- 5/22/2008 2:52:34 PM >
_____________________________
Resistance is futile (if less than .25 ohms)
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 1:44:00 PM
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Pauley464
Posts: 519
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From: Washington, Indiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
Okay..... to get away from the dating twist on whether Christian men are wimpy... 
I have not be able to characterize Christian men in my real life as overtly wimpy.
I see and read on this board and other Christian boards (and only in these venues) talk of this species (LOL) but in real life, I find that those men labelled online as wimpy Christians to be the ones that are not actively attempting to be "hollywood's idea of manhood". They aren't wimpy. They are even tempered, diligent and faithful.
What is wrong with being kind and gentle at appropriate times? It does not negate a Christian man's ability to be bold as a lion when the time calls for it. An effective leader RARELY has to use brute strength, or harsh words. However, when necessary, he can and will.
Self confidence and confidence in the Lord to finish the good work that has been started within a man is all he needs to feel manly, imo.
Rabblerousing, grunting, bossiness and obstinance aren't manly. They are pubescent acting out.
This is exactly the point I've always tried to make in other threads dealing with this, and other similar topics. A christian man isn't always a wimp. But too many people automatically label christian men wimps because they are not behaving in Hollywood's stereotypical fashion. Confidence and strength do not equal aggression and argumentativeness. I have never been on a second date with any lady for the simple reason they have labelled me as a "wimp" because I don't display the aggression. And I'll repeat a question no one has ever answered, "What are women expecting to happen on a first date to prove a christian man has backbone and isn't a wimp?" I have never been on a date when I have been called upon to defend my companion or my faith. I have never needed to display my decisive nature in any way other than where we will dine. There has never been any reason to confront anyone for any reason or to be anything other than perfectly polite and cordial to those around us. And yet, when I ask the lady why she's not interested, I'm inevitably told that I'm "...too nice". What are they expecting to happen?
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/22/2008 11:52:32 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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quote:
Can anyone shine some light on why some Christian women think this way?
If we follow the world's standards we will all be out in left field. However, I do think some christian men seem to be a bit terrified of moving forward with relationships. There is an overal change in the culture where men cease to exhibit some masculine characteistics. But some christian men do take their cues from the World. We are to be in the world but not of it.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/23/2008 12:24:33 AM
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Konstantinos
Posts: 6904
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From: Greece Thessaloniki
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quote:
I've heard some Christian ladies make statements that are somewhat akin to this. It seems odd considering that our society seems to push men to be so much more sensative than in the past.
Can anyone shine some light on why some Christian women think this way?
(Perhaps this works better in the She said forum or relationships but I'm curious to hear from guys too.)
because most men today ARE wimpy. even christians. well the REAL christians not so much. but the ones that are only the church goers type and such... most of them are.
but in general, men are more wimpy today. for pete's sake.. whoever pete is... if a society actually finds the ideal model for a young man to be emo which is pretty much a wimp what do you expect.
ill say that big part of the problem is that dads no longer teach their boys how to be men. my dad never did much. thank God i learnt through Him.
dads spoil their boys too much, never teach them things anymore. instead they buy em toys, they have simply fallen for all the marketing and capitalism. they think the more they work the more love they show or something. raising a kid isnt as simple as that. i'd even say that money is one of the least important issues.. as long as you have at least a little to like.. feed them. you are better off making less money and spending more time to play with the kids, be with them and such than make more to give them toys and other stuff.
but thats getting kinda off subject
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/23/2008 9:11:39 AM
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John_O
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Konstantinos
because most men today ARE wimpy. even christians. well the REAL christians not so much. but the ones that are only the church goers type and such... most of them are.
but in general, men are more wimpy today. for pete's sake.. whoever pete is... if a society actually finds the ideal model for a young man to be emo which is pretty much a wimp what do you expect.
ill say that big part of the problem is that dads no longer teach their boys how to be men. my dad never did much. thank God i learnt through Him.
dads spoil their boys too much, never teach them things anymore. instead they buy em toys, they have simply fallen for all the marketing and capitalism. they think the more they work the more love they show or something. raising a kid isnt as simple as that. i'd even say that money is one of the least important issues.. as long as you have at least a little to like.. feed them. you are better off making less money and spending more time to play with the kids, be with them and such than make more to give them toys and other stuff.
but thats getting kinda off subject
I don't think that's off subject at all. Real men make great fathers. Wimpy men neglect their kids because they're too weak to do it right.
_____________________________
Resistance is futile (if less than .25 ohms)
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/23/2008 9:23:54 AM
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jlp1
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I don't think christian men are wimpy as a matter of fact I think they are more of a man then the ones who are careless with his actions. I adore a christian man, my father is a christian man and he taught me all my values and I love him dearly for that. Christian me show character, integrity, love, gentleness, thoughtfulness, patience and if society thinks that's wimpy so what, I love it.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/23/2008 11:57:15 AM
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Rocktron
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Society has done a good job of emasculating men and it's carried over in the church. I find too many churches effeminate. We readily talk about the love and kindness of Jesus (which is true) but never the idea that he was a man’s man. A carpenter, who worked with his hands, walked from sunup to sundown and he was nearly beaten to death but walked with his cross up a hill. He was ready to defend his Father’s honor at the temple and even spoke to the woman at the well which was a cultural, racial, gender no-no.
No, I don’t see that much in churches. And if I was a man, I would think it's a girls club that I didn't belong or a buffet of women to choose from. At least, that's what I feel like when I'm at my singles group. The ladies abound and if you're a guy you can choose whatever flavor you care too. I think sometimes that's the problem for guys there are too many really good choices. Maybe we should go back to the Old Testament time of multiple wives and concubines. (The last bit is a joke by the way.)
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/23/2008 12:20:26 PM
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derek_from_canada
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In my experience, I have been rejected because I was "too nice" before, and those same girls chose to be involved with the 'bad boys' and suffer teh consequences.
I find it extremely interesting that because I held myself back "physically" (unlike most men), one time I was asked, "are you even a man?" (i.e. did I have manly desires? of course I do and reigning them in is not easy!)
It really bothered me and really made me want to cross my own boundaries to prove I was a man to her. (she was a christian too)
Why did I have to act like a "movie" leading man and passionately chase someone (physically) to be considered manly? Was that because of her misplaced notions? Couldn't we just be people and get to know each other too?
I dunno.
Now, I am trying to be more of a "Good Man" and not just a "nice guy".
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/23/2008 9:20:37 PM
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Pauley464
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Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Washington, Indiana
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quote:
Now, I am trying to be more of a "Good Man" and not just a "nice guy".
There's no difference.
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RE: Today's Christian men...wimpy? - 5/23/2008 10:48:01 PM
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Konstantinos
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there definitely is.
i used to try to be nice.
btw there is more to being a "man" than just showing a girl that you physically want her.
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I'm a beast.
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