Willow Creek's Huge Shift (Full Version)

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coldwarrior2 -> Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 2:15:56 PM)

"After modeling a seeker-sensitive approach to church growth for three decades, Willow Creek Community Church now plans to gear its weekend services toward mature believers seeking to grow in their faith."

Smart move or not?



doinkdom -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 2:40:31 PM)

You can't stay a seeker forever, so if that body and it's leadership are convicted to move beyond seeker, then I say it's awesome.



earthless -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 3:31:53 PM)

That's a solid move on their part.



coldwarrior2 -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 3:38:45 PM)

I believe it's the correct thing to do also but am wondering what took them so long. Based on the article I read Bill Hybels had mentioned doing this 10 years ago. However, it appears that mainstream churches are having trouble doing exactly what Willow Creek is planning to do. What do you think? How is it at your church? What your church's approach?



Roberta_ -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 5:04:57 PM)

I have never known a SFC to make a move like this. It should be interesting to see what happens.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 9:06:20 PM)

Why can't they do both?

Our church does. Its not hard.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 9:57:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SonInMe1

Why can't they do both?

Our church does. Its not hard.

I agree, why not handle both. If by gearing its weekend services towards mature believers means closing its doors to the seekers, then no this is not a good move.
They should be able to offer a service which will spiritually feed both the seeker and the mature believer.



colliefan -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 11:08:52 PM)

quote:

If by gearing its weekend services towards mature believers means closing its doors to the seekers, then no this is not a good move.
They should be able to offer a service which will spiritually feed both the seeker and the mature believer.


If the name of Christ is lifted up, that will draw all men. Too much of the seeker movement is just self-improvement sermons with a gospel pitch tied on at the end of the sermon. Mention is hardly made of the command to die to self and carry one's cross. The Christian walk is impossible w/o the aid of the Holy Spirit which the seeker does not posses. He is still dead in his sins.



Liveloved -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 11:26:28 PM)

quote:

"After modeling a seeker-sensitive approach to church growth for three decades, Willow Creek Community Church now plans to gear its weekend services toward mature believers seeking to grow in their faith."


I read Hybel's Too Busy Not To Pray many years ago. In the final chapter, he got to the point. . . God. Enough said.



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 11:34:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

If by gearing its weekend services towards mature believers means closing its doors to the seekers, then no this is not a good move.
They should be able to offer a service which will spiritually feed both the seeker and the mature believer.


If the name of Christ is lifted up, that will draw all men. Too much of the seeker movement is just self-improvement sermons with a gospel pitch tied on at the end of the sermon. Mention is hardly made of the command to die to self and carry one's cross. The Christian walk is impossible w/o the aid of the Holy Spirit which the seeker does not posses. He is still dead in his sins.

Were you not once a seeker though, weren't we all. a church should be able to teach the seeker and the believer. But when I said seeker, i did not mean a non believer, but a new believer who is searching for Gods truth and needs guidance.



1love1God1way -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 11:47:01 PM)

Is the purpose of the church for the seeker, or for the believer?



SavedByGraceMD -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/19/2008 11:53:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

Is the purpose of the church for the seeker, or for the believer?

to whom do you pose this question?



DaveW -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 6:31:12 AM)

Dan Juster once made the comment that many Seeker Friendly congregations are more properly described as lazy believer congregations. If someone is truly seeking, nothing will stand in their way.

I applaud the move. While we should be aware of cultural and practical things that may discourage some from coming and rid ourselves of all that, it should never be done at the expense of the diminishing the gospel or giving proper nourishment and exhortation to grow in the Lord.



rcjames -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 9:00:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: coldwarrior2

"After modeling a seeker-sensitive approach to church growth for three decades, Willow Creek Community Church now plans to gear its weekend services toward mature believers seeking to grow in their faith."

Smart move or not?


It is definately a Biblical move. The model of Church is a gathering of Believers to;

(Eph 4:12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

(Eph 4:13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(Eph 4:14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

(Eph 4:15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Evangelism is for Evangelist and the individual believer to do.

The gathering of the Saints (Church) should be just that; a gathering of Saints.

Thanks
RC



stampinlady -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 9:08:29 AM)

Coming from one who attends, it's wonderful. I've heard that it's like it was back in it's early days. Pastor Hybels has a heart for God and people.



StephK -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 9:28:03 AM)

It's a good move. Honestly, believers can't live on milk forever.



kernsfamily -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 9:44:36 AM)

quote:

What do you think? How is it at your church? What your church's approach?


quote:

Why can't they do both?
Our church does. Its not hard.


My church does an incredible job being BOTH, as well.....a church that is "welcoming" and sensitive to "seekers", while providing teaching, preaching, etc..etc... that will challenge even the "most spiritually-mature" Christians.

Our church "meets" people where they are NOW in their spiritual walk with Christ....and guiding/leading them to continual spiritual growth and discipleship....whether they have been a Christian for a lifetime....or, just walked off the street, and haven't been in a church their entire life.

Those that have been raised in the church their entire lives, sometimes have a very hard time "connecting" and/or "relating" to the idea that not all Christians or churchgoers had that very same experience....and that there are adults out there that actually are at the "spiritual growth" level that THEY were at when they were teenagers, or even younger.....and they somehow "expect" those "New Christians", or even "soon-to-be Christians", to have the same level of understanding of the Bible as they do.



StephK -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 10:00:33 AM)

Many seeker churches are not teaching solid biblical doctrine at all. Their churches are full of infantile Christians. Those infantile Christians are being seduced by some strange doctrines out there because they have not been properly discipled.



rcjames -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 10:05:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

Many seeker churches are not teaching solid biblical doctrine at all. Their churches are full of infantile Christians. Those infantile Christians are being seduced by some strange doctrines out there because they have not been properly discipled.


Sad but true.


Thanks
RC



sparkleingsnow -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 10:22:16 AM)

quote:

Original: SonInMe1

Why can't they do both?

Our church does. Its not hard.


Agreed. And aren't we called to do both?



rcjames -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 10:34:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow

quote:

Original: SonInMe1

Why can't they do both?

Our church does. Its not hard.


Agreed. And aren't we called to do both?


Well, yes and no.

The Church (by definition a gathering of the Saints) in charged to grow the believers into the stature of Christ.

All Believers are charged to witness Christ to the lost, lead them to Jesus, and then they will be part of the Church and can be grown into the stature of Christ.

LUke describes this process well in;

(Act 2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Thanks
RC



Kat_D -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 10:36:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

Many seeker churches are not teaching solid biblical doctrine at all. Their churches are full of infantile Christians. Those infantile Christians are being seduced by some strange doctrines out there because they have not been properly discipled.


Not to mention all the Contemplative Spirituality/Emergent junk that has infiltrated WC. A year or so ago there was a thread on WC and after a little research, I found that one of their big conferences was called "Ancient Future Community" and the speakers were a virtual who's-who of Emergent/Contemplative personalities. If you check out their BookStore, it is still filled with books by authors such as Thomas Merton, James Finley, Richard Rohr, Erwin McManus, Brian McLaren, etc...

...wonder if Hybels is gonna do anything about that?

It will only be great idea for him to take his church away from the seeker friendly model to one of growing mature believers IF the doctrine he teaches is sound.



StephK -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 10:39:54 AM)

I forgot about them going more emergent. That's the strange doctrines I was referring to though.



doinkdom -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 10:47:02 AM)

Romans 3:10 as it is written:
“None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands;
no one seeks for God.



doinkdom -> RE: Willow Creek's Huge Shift (5/20/2008 10:50:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady
Coming from one who attends, it's wonderful. I've heard that it's like it was back in it's early days. Pastor Hybels has a heart for God and people.


I agree, I like Bill. His heart is for the lost. His talents are in encouraging leaders and helping them grow in Christ that they may be equipped to minister to others.



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