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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/22/2008 5:48:57 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4409
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
a false victimhood for real!
This is exactly why affirmative action should end. It does nothing but perpetuate victimhood in people who weren't victimized
Agreed, Scrap it.
You were just arguing for it, were you not?
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His name is Chris Gardner. I had the distinct pleasure of meeting Mr. Gardner and hearing him speak just a few months ago. Not only did he tell a mixed-race audience that no one is responsible for their education or employment but themselves, I watched and heard him tell a room full of homeless men that they were the only thing keeping them homeless. And he said if they didn't want to be homeless, they'd find a way not to be.
did'nt like him when I heard him
one success story does not cover millions of people
He's absolutely right that people are responsible for themselves and their successes or failures.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/22/2008 6:03:09 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
here in the north, the inner-city schools are a far cry from the suburban schools.
And why is that?
\
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/22/2008 8:46:52 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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quote:
You were just arguing for it, were you not?
no reread all my posts in thread, said scrap it.
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He's absolutely right that people are responsible for themselves and their successes or failures.
nope not all people
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And why is that?
sign...... already said why.
Why do you think?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/22/2008 10:05:48 PM
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Closie
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One last comment ...
When Ronald Reagan was running for president in 1980, he promised to appoint a woman to Supreme Court. Not the most qualified person, but a woman. He did just that. Wasn't that affirmative action? If not, what was it?
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/22/2008 10:12:23 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
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Would you really want someone to pick you, just because they had too Closie? You seem very intelligent and capable of making an impact all on your own. Where is the pride, in personal achievement ( the good pride) in that? It just would make me feel like a loser, that had no dreams or goals.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
One last comment ...
When Ronald Reagan was running for president in 1980, he promised to appoint a woman to Supreme Court. Not the most qualified person, but a woman. He did just that. Wasn't that affirmative action? If not, what was it?
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 5/22/2008 10:19:30 PM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/22/2008 10:30:14 PM
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Closie
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So much for that being my last comment....
Did Ronald Reagan use affirmative action when he appointed the O'Connor to the U.S. Supreme Court?
I got a small college scholarship because an advisor at school knew the admissions person and the advisor was an alum of the school where I was going. Was that affirmative action? The rest of my first year was paid for with academic scholarships but this advisor liked to help out kids from our high school who went to his alma mater.
When I interviewed for the job I have now, the only other applicant was a white male. He and I had the same qualifications and experiences. He would have been the 5th white male; I would have been the only black female (2nd female). Can anyone prove that my hiring wasn't or was AA?
I earned an academic scholarship to work on my doctorate. When I was offered a minority scholarship, a white guy got the department one that I would have gotten. That was AA but who was harmed?
I'm quite capable of doing my job. Yes I take pride in my professional accomplishments.
Four questions....might I get four answers?
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/22/2008 10:41:41 PM
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lightshineon
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You know,Closie with very much admiration at your intelligence, truthfully I am very impressed. I am going to say this with much respect to you as a fellow believer. Could these AA plights been to your attitude of what appears to be a hostile one? I do not know you, and I am sure you are a good person but every response to me seems hostile. Attitude matters when seeking placement in a job. I am not trying to be rude to you, just why so in my face hostility? If I am reading it wrong, I truly ask forgiveness, but, come on. I cannot even compliment you without a rude attitude from you.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/22/2008 11:37:11 PM
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Closie
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What AA plights? I answered whether or not I would feel bad about getting something for AA, either race or sex. If it wasn't clear, I'll try again. A white guy and I both applied for the same job. We both had the right education, experience, etc. But I got the job. How would anyone ever say it was AA? You can't so there's nothing for me to feel badly about relating to that. For me to tell how well I do my job and how qualified I am to do would really come off as arrogant and I don't want to do that. The only person who ever said anything about me getting a minority scholarship at school was guess who? The guy who got his Department one because I moved over to minority. Why should I feel bad about that? I'll add that he and I are great friends now and I've never told him how he got in. What's the point? Was anyone hurt?
Did Reagan use AA to appoint O'Connor? He campaigned on appointing a woman.
Was it AA that got me that one scholarship when I got it through who I knew, not that I met the standard?
I'm not trying to be rude and I apologize if I am. If it's coming across like that then I really do need to stop visiting a place that makes me produce words or sentiments that don't bring God the glory.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/23/2008 1:23:54 AM
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lightshineon
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Closie, I kind of read it wrong, I am truthfully sorry, I am a rude person, and I am sorry. I know this is not an excuse, but I have had such a hard week of testing with people and events in church and family. So forgive me please.  I really do admire you, would not say it if I did not, just for lip service.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/23/2008 2:23:39 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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quote:
We don't have "inner-city" schools where I live, just one school system.
If you want to go back to the last century: My city had two elementary schools (1-6) and one high school (7-12) for all children. It had not been that way in the 50s and early 60s, but when I began 7th grade, there was only the one set of schools. After my class graduated, there were no children from that point on that received a different education in public schools.
Like I said, you should move South.
My experience from 7th grade, they decided to finally desegrate and moved us from one part of town and bussed us to another, I remember first day of school alot of whites outside meeting buses protesting.
It was forced upon us all. We didnt like it and they didnt.
We also could not get caught after school over there.
!980 in same area as schools a black family moved there and got a burnt cross, it made papers everywhere.
Now the neighborhood is alot of people from pakistan and india, i see hindu temples and bollywood movies, it's weird to me.
Jimbo,
I would love to move south. I beg my hubby, he won't do it.
He has land in Miss. Mom, family, says no way.
He thinks I act funny by going to Confed. Museums when I'm there. Going to plantations, I made him stop one time on I20 in Miss. to take a pic of a confed flag, the guy posed for me, my hubby was like you are gonna get us killed, you cannot walk up to white people and ask them to take pics of their flags, cause you never seen a real live one like that one.
But the guy was real nice and said he could tell I was not from round theses parts.
You can look this up Blacks are moving back in good numbers. I seen a story on it.
Especially the ones who have had good jobs and are retiring. Tired of the cold, the rat-race, everything is cheaper, much cheaper!!
Ahhh... maybe one day G-D willing, we will move south.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/23/2008 10:00:10 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 707
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
Did Ronald Reagan use affirmative action when he appointed the O'Connor to the U.S. Supreme Court?
There is one school of thought that it's not the idea of using race as a factor in the selection process that some people are against, it's the idea of being forced to use race as a factor, i.e., Affirmative Action and quotas. I think it gives the SCOTUS a little more credibility when you have a little diversity. I also happen to believe that it would be a mistake if we don't take race into consideration when (for example) staffing our schools and police forces. Especially with the rising hispanic population, if only "hard working white people" (a new race invented by Hillary) merit consideration for these two venues in predominantly hispanic schools/neighborhoods, there could be problems.
- Julius
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/23/2008 1:03:57 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Having been born and raised in upstate NY, I saw more racial problems up there than I do here in NC.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
We don't have "inner-city" schools where I live, just one school system.
If you want to go back to the last century: My city had two elementary schools (1-6) and one high school (7-12) for all children. It had not been that way in the 50s and early 60s, but when I began 7th grade, there was only the one set of schools. After my class graduated, there were no children from that point on that received a different education in public schools.
Like I said, you should move South.
My experience from 7th grade, they decided to finally desegrate and moved us from one part of town and bussed us to another, I remember first day of school alot of whites outside meeting buses protesting.
It was forced upon us all. We didnt like it and they didnt.
We also could not get caught after school over there.
!980 in same area as schools a black family moved there and got a burnt cross, it made papers everywhere.
Now the neighborhood is alot of people from pakistan and india, i see hindu temples and bollywood movies, it's weird to me.
Jimbo,
I would love to move south. I beg my hubby, he won't do it.
He has land in Miss. Mom, family, says no way.
He thinks I act funny by going to Confed. Museums when I'm there. Going to plantations, I made him stop one time on I20 in Miss. to take a pic of a confed flag, the guy posed for me, my hubby was like you are gonna get us killed, you cannot walk up to white people and ask them to take pics of their flags, cause you never seen a real live one like that one.
But the guy was real nice and said he could tell I was not from round theses parts.
You can look this up Blacks are moving back in good numbers. I seen a story on it.
Especially the ones who have had good jobs and are retiring. Tired of the cold, the rat-race, everything is cheaper, much cheaper!!
Ahhh... maybe one day G-D willing, we will move south.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/23/2008 3:30:34 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Closie
So much for that being my last comment....
Did Ronald Reagan use affirmative action when he appointed the O'Connor to the U.S. Supreme Court?
He probably did, but I bet he would not again as bad as that "Conservative" appointment turned out.
He is probably turning over in that great hay barn in the sky over it>
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 3:09:52 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 970
Joined: 6/4/2007
From: Indianapolis, IN
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I think the biggest problem with AA is psycological, and I'm surprised, after reading 5 pages of posts, nobody has referenced it directly. It may not be racist in and of itself, but it brings out racism in others who otherwise might think differently. When a minority person is in a supervisory position, people of the majority will think, "is that person in the job because of affirmative action, or are they really qualified?"
Too many white people like me see a minority in a high-ranking or superviosory position, and automatically assume that another person was more qualified and she knocked him out of his rightful position by AA. Or, if we aren't quite as bad as that, affirmative action still suggests to us that maybe that's what happened and the minority person might not deserve his or her job. This happens even in the minds of people who honestly believe they are not racist. It has come into my own mind, and I've had to learn to think differently. It came into my mind a good many years ago when a black supervisor told me she wasn't pleased with my performance. I didn't want to think that she may have said that because I wasn't doing my job very well, even though at least deep down I knew her complaint had merit. I wanted to think she said it because she wasn't a very good supervisor who only got the position because of affirmative action.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 8:44:48 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3156
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
I'm a strong advocate of affirmative action. The reason why affirmative action exists as a policy is because we've had affirmative action for whites for hundreds of years.
Yeah...lets get them evil white people...no prejudice in that.
quote:
It would mean that if 25% of a city's population is black, then theoretically about 25% of the city's qualified people would be black
Sounds quite logical, but the real world seldom is.
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I wish I could say this were true now, but it's just not, at least yet. Does it mean that there has to be special accommodations made? For the time being, yes.
No minority ceo's? No minority professionals? Just how....fair...do you want life? Guess what...life ain't fair. Was never made to BE fair and sometimes life just sucks. An ADULT gets over it.
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For example, if a young child is brought up on impoverished city streets, but aspires to be a doctor, but by high school she just doesn't have the minimum SAT scores, I believe it would be just to make some accommodations, at least in this round.
Under this criteria then AA has indeed outlasted its effectiveness. Certainbly a generation has been raised since 1964...almost two.
quote:
Have you noticed that average scores are significantly lower in black cities than in white? Anyone who believes we live in a society with equal opportunities must see blacks as less capable.
This is your perception of "facts". Others would claim this proves the inferiority of blacks.
Me? I think this proves without a doubt the evil that has been done to black people by liberals and excuse makers. The evil done to blacks is the continuation of AA which states very clearly that blacks need help to "get ahead". If I was black, I would be highly offended....and many are.
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that will just be collecting dust because there are plenty of qualified minorities
Want "equality"? Don't ask for special favors and work hard.
Think prejudice will ever die out? Not until Jesus comes back. All that can be done...has been done. Any more and its just politics.
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I think there was a need for a hand up or hand out in the 1960'
No doubt.
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AA works both ways.
Prejudice is as prejudice does...eh? Its wrong on both sides.
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Undereducated, poor support, overworked and underpaid teachers.
A lady in my small group bible study teaches in one of these schools. She has some interesting insight like...
she is the first white person many of her students have ever seen. ( She teaches pre-k )..
most of her students have stories of abuse, daddy getting arrested and neglect. One of her students was shot recently.
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disparities in hiring, school admissions, etc.
Because someone is a minority doesn't mean they were prejudiced against if they didn't get a job. I am white and have been turned down for many jobs...wow...believe it or not!!
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I never want to be second choice, because someone had to pick me to fill a slot for Affirmative Action.
Aha! What is the word for this...some long lost charactor trait I heard of years ago...hmmm...aha! Yes its called
INTEGRITY.
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Can you imagine the war that would erupt if a white man introduced a bill in congress that repealed AA?
I can't remember the details but Jeb Bush triued to end some AA here in Florida a few years ago...guess what he was called?
Yep.
quote:
Richard Nixon? liberal?
Very. Ain't nuttin conservative about wage and price controls.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 10:49:57 AM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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Why is the NBA not under AA?
Seems that there are plenty of white boys that would like to play and make multiple millions per year.
AA does not seem to care about qualifications or abilities only reflecting the make up of the community. So lets turn the NBA over to AA and sign us a few white men that can't jump.
I mean in not AA all about giving opportunity to unqualified folks.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 12:28:41 PM
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lightshineon
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I still stand by this, if I ever come to you for a job, do not hire me if you just to fill a quota please.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Being a woman, I would not want a job someone could do better, because I have a little good pride, in my myself, and work ethic, and abilities. I never want to be second choice, because someone had to pick me to fill a slot for Affirmative Action. It is akin to a woman sleeping her way to the top, which I have seen many, many, many, times. If someone picks me because they have to, then where is the accomplishment in that? There is no difference, both being promoted because of distinct anatomy parts. They can just keep it, not for me, a Godly woman.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 12:57:49 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 707
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Why is the NBA not under AA?
Seems that there are plenty of white boys that would like to play and make multiple millions per year.
AA does not seem to care about qualifications or abilities only reflecting the make up of the community. So lets turn the NBA over to AA and sign us a few white men that can't jump.
I mean in not AA all about giving opportunity to unqualified folks.
Thsnks
RC
Yeah, I agree. And why don't we have more brothers singing (or rapping) at the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville? And why do only women waitresses get to work at Hooters? And NASCAR should quit with their discrimination against the elderly. There should be a special NASCAR circuit for people who only drive 40 mph with their turn signals on constantly.
- Julius
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 2:54:28 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Yeah, I agree. And why don't we have more brothers singing (or rapping) at the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville? And why do only women waitresses get to work at Hooters? And NASCAR should quit with their discrimination against the elderly. There should be a special NASCAR circuit for people who only drive 40 mph with their turn signals on constantly.
Your suggestions make as much sense as the education and job opportunities that are now in play with AA.
I am so glad we can agree on something.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 3:49:08 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 707
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Yeah, I agree. And why don't we have more brothers singing (or rapping) at the Grand Ole Opry in Nashville? And why do only women waitresses get to work at Hooters? And NASCAR should quit with their discrimination against the elderly. There should be a special NASCAR circuit for people who only drive 40 mph with their turn signals on constantly.
Your suggestions make as much sense as the education and job opportunities that are now in play with AA.
I am so glad we can agree on something.
Thanks
RC
I was being sacastic.
In all the examples given, there are minimum acceptable qualifications and standards for the positions. There are also verifiable, objective, criteria for measuring acceptable performance. An NBA player must possess a certain skill set or else they don't make it. A person who sings country music must be able to sing country music and sell records. EVERY white person in the NBA (and there are more than you think, albeit from other countries), can jump, shoot, dribble and play defense. And I assume every black country western singer who gets to sing at the Opry can sing pretty good. NASCAR drivers have to be in top physical condition and have lightning quick reflexes. Affirmative Action does not ignore minimum acceptable qualifications and standards. It would be foolish to assume (but some people do) that Harvard accepts black kids with average test scores and average grades ahead of exceptonal white students. That's one of the biggest misconceptions about AA. The assumption is, that there are no "qualified" black students or blacks students are inferior so standards must be lowered to a point where black students are accepted. That's not true. Your friend Clarence Thomas was a beneficiary of AA at Yale (he claimed in his book that he's so "ashamed" of that degree that he doesn't display it). He was in a pool of qualified applicants who was advanced to the top of the list in an attempt to achieve a more diverse student body.
Nice try though, but these are old arguments that have been shot down many times before.
- Julius
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 5:11:37 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 707
Joined: 4/15/2005
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Here's an old article that I recently ran across. Are any of you familiar with the term "Development Admits" as it relates to college admissions?
One part of the debate regarding affirmative action in college admissions, is what seems to me to be an underlying assumption, that college admissions other than for racial preferences, are always based on academic merit alone.
So after you read the following article, tell me what you think about this kind of preference. From reading most of the opponents views on AA, I don't think rich kids or any other minority group, getting an "unearned" benefit, bothers them as much as black kids getting it.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Polk_Rich_Applicants.htm
"Most universities acknowledge favoring children of alumni who support their alma mater. But to attract prospective donors, colleges are also bending admissions standards to make space for children from rich or influential families that lack longstanding ties to the institutions. Through referrals and word-of-mouth, schools identify applicants from well-to-do families. Then, as soon as these students enroll, universities start soliciting gifts from their parents."
- Julius
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 7:45:05 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5782
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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I guess that AA does not fool with ice hockey for I do not notice any blacks, hispanics, oreintals, or women playing.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 8:14:41 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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http://www.freewebs.com/blackhockeyplayers/index.html
Saved9,
read the article. That's surprising that they admitted that much. It's been going on for years. That's how GWB got into College, ain't it?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: Is Affirmative Action a Racist Policy? - 5/24/2008 9:51:24 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 707
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
What a horrible thought, the look on the audiences faces if performers rapped at the Grand Ol' Opery (sp) where do you guy's come up with this (LOL) 
Actually, the first rappers were country music stars. Jimmy Dean released one of the first rap hits, "Big Bad John" in 1961.
"Ringo" another "rap" song, was released by Lorne Greene (Ben Cartwright of Bonanza fame) in 1964.
Johnny Cash should also be recognized as a rap pioneer for his recording of "A Boy Named Sue" in 1969.
And finally, there's C.W. McCall's 1974 classic, "Convoy" which inspired a movie by the same name.
- Julius
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