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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 10:27:50 AM
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evryknee
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quote:
I'm not here to justify my actions nor am I here saying that my choices were right. I came here for advice; not to be judged. Besides, who are you to question my faith? You don't know me nor do you know what's in my heart. The fact that I'm with an Atheist, doesn't make me love God any less. The fact that I love God so much, is why it hurts to be with an Atheist. And that's why I'm here asking for guidance from my brothers and sisters in Christ.
Maybe I can clarify (maybe not). Do you love God? You say you do, so you do. There is a difference between love (emotion, desire) and loving (actions). When we sin, do we still love God? Yes. Are we loving Him when we sin? No. Are we trusting Him when we sin? No. We are trusting in ourselves or something else. When we sin, we are loving ourselves & not our God. When I (knowlingly) sin, there is a part of me that does not care what God says - I want to do what I want to do. I still love God, but am not loving him in that moment, but myself.
In your situation, were you sinning? SOme will say yes, some no. Scriptures talk about about being "unequally yoked," referring, I believe, to marriage. At the very least, in dating an athiest, you are flirting with danger of disobedience to God to care for your own emotional "needs" (I assume), and not trusting that the Lord will provide for these emotional needs or provide someone (a believer) to do so. So, this is a possibility, but you need to search your heart in these things (I cannot say for certain, but the HS will know). If I were in your position, I'm sure there would be temptation when in the same situation, esp. if there were so many other good qualities about the person. But in the end, I know it could not go anywhere (marriage), lest I disobey God. IMO, we should not date those who are not marriage worthy - and that would include unbelievers (b/c God says) - but that is my opinion (could lead to a lot of heartbreak, spiritually & emotionally).
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 10:50:30 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1428
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quote:
ORIGINAL: vixir
I know it says that you shouldn't be unequally yolked (sp?), and as a Christian woman who has been in relationships with non-Christian men, I can totally understand why. But is it a sin to marry someone who isn't a child of God? I know there's an obvious question of "Why would you even want to?". But with that aside, would God shun you if you were to marry a non-believer? Is that a deal-breaker?
The only deal-breaker I know of, is to deny God. And that is something I have never done and will never do. But I'm also not bible-savvy, so I really cannot say what else there is that would make you totally unworthy to enter the Kingdom, more than you already are. Help please!
This leaves me to wonder....
Does "unequally yolked" ONLY refer to the situation of "believers" marrying "non believers"?....
OR, are there OTHER ways that two people can be "unequally yolked"....in a TRUE biblical sense?
does that even make sense?
< Message edited by kernsfamily -- 6/12/2008 10:56:51 AM >
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 11:52:43 AM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1527
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quote:
does that even make sense?
Yes it makes alot of sense. If you flip through all the verses on how we are to live you'll see a pattern of not "yoking" with evil. Study what a yoke is and it will make more sense to you. If a farmer yokes a new horse with one that is trained are they going to work together? No. I don't believe God is saying we are to live like the Amish, but I do believe we tend to yoke with the world more than wnot. Just what I see.
_____________________________
Deb
"You don't need a New Year's Resolution, you need a Resurection! Dr. Tony Evans
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 12:07:19 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1428
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
does that even make sense?
Yes it makes alot of sense. If you flip through all the verses on how we are to live you'll see a pattern of not "yoking" with evil.
Ok..so, a "believer" living a Godly life, and NOT "yoking" with someone with an 'active' criminal background, and that sort of thing.....ok, i can see that....
any other examples?
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 3:32:43 PM
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stampinlady
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A believer going into business with an unbeliever could have many struggles. I personally believe that we cause many of our struggles because we yoke together with unbelievers.
_____________________________
Deb
"You don't need a New Year's Resolution, you need a Resurection! Dr. Tony Evans
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 5:58:32 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1428
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
A believer going into business with an unbeliever could have many struggles.
of course, that's implying that the "non-believer" is going to follow the "stereo-type" and "cheat" & "steal"...
they COULD have many struggles...
depends on the INDIVIDUAL "believer" and "non-believer"...
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 6:06:16 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6187
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
A believer going into business with an unbeliever could have many struggles.
of course, that's implying that the "non-believer" is going to follow the "stereo-type" and "cheat" & "steal"...
they COULD have many struggles...
depends on the INDIVIDUAL "believer" and "non-believer"...
Actually the struggles that come to the fore in my mind are to do with pulling in different directions, one going to church/Bible Study/church socials and the other not, one wanting to pray about difficulties the other not, one wanting any resultant children to be taught about the Christian faith, the other not ..........
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"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 6:28:41 PM
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ChoirDJ
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From: So Cal
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Vixir...I'd like to chime in but before I do may I ask a simple question? Are you currently living with and being sexually active with your boyfriend? I got the impression you were at least living with him based on you stating you live two states away from you birth family if I remember correctly.
_____________________________
"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 6:37:55 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6187
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quote:
ORIGINAL: vixir
Thank you all for such encouraging words. I've decided against marrying this man. Not only because he isn't a Christian, but because I probably wouldn't be a happy wife. I live two states away from my family, so I'm pretty alone here. But I did visit my family last Christmas and they finally met my son. He actually did pretty well and if I ever went back for good, he would definitely be surrounded by everyone who truly loves him. Not to say that his daddy doesn't love him... I just have a feeling that my son would be forgotten by his daddy if I left. It's sad... I know! My step-dad isn't a Christian, though. But my brother is. So he would have a great male role-model who loves God, to look up to. And after thinking a lot, I really do want him to have that. My boyfriend and I talked last night, and we got on the subject of teaching our son about God. Obviously he doesn't want me to, but he also knows that he cannot stop me. I can already tell that this will be the main topic of our future arguments. And I don't want my son to think that it's his fault at all, because it isn't. It really has nothing to do with him personally. Why would someone who doesn't believe in God, be so afraid of his child learning about the love of God? He called it being brainwashed. Which really upset me to no end! If anything, this will be what drives me to leave without hesitation. Because he already said that he would teach him that there isn't a God, when he gets older. And that breaks my heart...
So, having reached this decision, what do you plan to do?
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 8:20:42 PM
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vixir
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It's been quite a while since we've been sexually active with each other. I honestly cannot remember when the last time was. But God has been changing my heart towards this man, really fast too. It's refreshing, but also scary at the same time.
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 8:22:07 PM
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vixir
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
So, having reached this decision, what do you plan to do?
Leave. Once I do, I vow to never get involved with another non-believer again. I'm gonna do it right next time...
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/12/2008 10:46:34 PM
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frances67
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I think you made the right decision...to leave. It is not a deal breaker to marry a non-believer but it is a sin because it goes directly against the word of God. God is our Father and as such he wants the best for us so I think that is why he does not want us to get into a marital relationship with a non-believer. He knows that it would lead to problems and heartaches for his children. I am not married yet but I make it a point to not date a person who does not profess to be a Christian.
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/13/2008 1:03:01 AM
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ChoirDJ
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Stick to what you know deep down in your heart is the right thing Vixir. Good for you that you seem to be getting a grip on yourself. Your child needs a mother that will not be weak-willed because your child pays for your mistakes along with you.
_____________________________
"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/13/2008 2:01:38 AM
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FRO
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I'd like to throw myself into this circle as well - I am dating a pre-Christian, and this relationship is proving more fruitful than my previous relationships (which were all with Christians). One great example: this relationship has already demonstrated greater potential for ministry, because my girlfriend is willing to translate my attempts at sharing the gospel, and even make gospel presentations on her own in her native language.
It's easy to toss this isolated verse from 2 Cor. 6 into the debate, like it is the all-contextual last word on the matter. It's also easy to ignore the ENTIRETY of 1 Cor. 7, which can be summed up with the recommendation "don't get married." Paul was preaching to a community that was trying to excuse sexual immorality by marrying pagans. But he still bookmarked his letter with exhortations to share Christ's love. I've read every comment in this thread, and I don't see any compassion for vixir's boyfriend. I'm not suggesting that she marry him, and I read her comments about how difficult it is to share Christ with him, but is that where the Great Commission quits? Make disciples of all nations, unless you become romantically attached to a non-believer - in that case, flee the situation?
I know that vixir will probably continue to be a Christian influence in her boyfriend's life, but her Christian community should be more supportive of her ministry to him, and this forum should probably be thinking of him more also. I'm kinda disappointed when I see this attitude of "do what's best for the Christian, forget the other guy." "Don't love someone at the expense of your own emotional and spiritual well-being."
As for me, I deeply care about the salvation of my girlfriend; I potentially care more than any other human does for her. She's not in a Christian culture, so I don't have a lot of hope that other Christians will step in to fill my absence if I leave her. I know God cares about her more than I do, and it's this characteristic of God that I feel justifies my relationship with her.
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/13/2008 8:29:17 AM
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evryknee
Posts: 297
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A somewhat shaky ground, FRO. Easy to justify (esp. using the term pre-Christian). How will any of us know the other will be "converted" by the gospel...but good to try (though while dating.....?).
Vixir - Praise God for the work in you. May He bless you as you continue to seek Him & His Righteousness.
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/13/2008 12:45:58 PM
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momof12kidz
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It is NOT a sin for a believer to marry an unbeliever. They are asking for a whole lot of trials and tribulations, but a sin NO!. As it is always a great thing to wait on God, sometimes people just don't wait, they say it is better to marry than to burn and thus walk down the aisle. And sadly enough they soon realize they have made a boo boo. But even in our haste, God is loving compassionate and will be there to help us out or through it all. Momof12kidz
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/13/2008 12:46:11 PM
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ChoirDJ
Posts: 464
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From: So Cal
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FRO...I think you've totally missed the point of what this thread is all about so let me attempt to summarize.
This thread is about a woman who has conceived a child out of wedlock with a self-proclaimed athiest. This woman is considering marrying this boyfriend even though she knows this relationship would be in direct violation of the scriptures that command us to not be unequally yoked. Her justification was that the father would likely forget about the child and the child would grow up without his biological father's influence if she were to move back to the state her family lives in.
We understand this conflict this woman is feeling but she came to a christian forum to ask for input on how to deal with the situation. True christians communicate empathy but we speak the truth in love when we see someone (such as this woman) about to "jump from the frying pan into the fire" so to speak.
There is no such thing as a "pre-christian" sir. Either your girlfriend is a christian or she is not and you can't be sure she will ever become one until she has actually done it. The message to you is the same as for the OP and anyone else in this situation. If you are a christian and you become yoked with a non-christian, you are disobeying God's will and there will be inevitable consequences. Now, If you want someone to gloss over that fact and condone such relationships then this forum is not the place for you on this issue. From a christian perspective, what's worse than raising a child with someone who wants to undermine the mother's ability to give the child a spiritual foundation by teaching the child that God doesn't even exist?
quote:
I'm kinda disappointed when I see this attitude of "do what's best for the Christian, forget the other guy." "Don't love someone at the expense of your own emotional and spiritual well-being."
Hunh?! Isn't our first loyalty supposed to be to Christ who died for us? Of course I am not going to love someone at the expense of my emotional and spiritual well-being and that has nothing to do with lacking compassion for the other guy. I think you are mistaking compassion for sentimentality. It's common sense that you don't marry someone who's values conflict with your own especially when it comes to salvation issues for you and your offspring. Your comments concern me sir.
_____________________________
"Sin will take you further than you intended to go, keep you there longer than you intended to stay, and cost you more than you intended to spend." Got it?
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Vixir - 6/13/2008 12:53:16 PM
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momof12kidz
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Praise God that you have learned a lesson. See sometimes it takes us to really mess up and go through to see the reality of it all. You will be able to teach someone else because you have gone through. But remember it is not a sin to marry an unbeliever, for we all make blind mistakes, but the secret is to look to the hills from which cometh our help. Our help cometh from the Lord. Be Blessed and treasure your lesson. Momof12kidz
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/14/2008 3:05:00 AM
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StephenJ
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Can I throw something else into this thread?
What if an unbeliever, before the relationship starts, says that they're willing to respect the Christian's beliefs? Like they want to respect Christian moral issues like abstinence and going to church?
I have a friend who is currently dating a non-Christian and says that this current relationship is better than her past relationships with other Christians. He understands and accepts her desire to wait for sex until after marriage, and doesn't take her out on Friday-Saturday evenings (she's a 7th day Adventist.) What does everyone think?
I also ask because I'm starting to suspect that one of my non-Christian friends is interested in me, and I'm not sure how I should respond or even how I feel about her. Given that she's more emotinally open and available than most Christian women I've been interested in.
Oh well ducking out.
< Message edited by StephenJ -- 6/14/2008 3:11:26 AM >
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Rock on!
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/14/2008 8:02:55 AM
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rgod
Posts: 1775
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quote:
Well, I'm starting to pack up our stuff. It hurts so bad! I'm trying so hard to pull it together. What makes it worse is to think of my son not seeing his daddy anymore. I'm trying not to think of that, though. Because it just breaks my heart even more.
I've prayed for you and I'm sure others are doing the same. Your heart is breaking now, but you've been spared a lot of heartbreak too - even worse heartbreak if you had continued down this path. I have a question, why would your son not be able to see his dad? Just because you and the father not together doesn't mean that he can't have a relationship with his father (phone calls, visits). Is it because he is several states away and might not make the effort?
quote:
What if an unbeliever, before the relationship starts, says that they're willing to respect the Christian's beliefs? Like they want to respect Christian moral issues like abstinence and going to church?
I have a friend who is currently dating a non-Christian and says that this current relationship is better than her past relationships with other Christians. He understands and accepts her desire to wait for sex until after marriage, and doesn't take her out on Friday-Saturday evenings (she's a 7th day Adventist.) What does everyone think?
I also ask because I'm starting to suspect that one of my non-Christian friends is interested in me, and I'm not sure how I should respond or even how I feel about her. Given that she's more emotinally open and available than most Christian women I've been interested in.
The last time that I checked, 7th Day Adventists were Christians - so I'm not sure if I'm following you when you say that your friend is dating a non-Christian. I'm a little confused about this.
I'd caution you concerning your non-Christian interest. Not every non-believer behaves immorally. Many are good people by the world's standards (I know that the bible says that no one is "good" except the father). Many behave way better than a lot of Christians - in fact you might even think that they are believers because of their conduct, mercy, and zeal for doing what is right. Many say that they will respect your beliefs and actually will. So, you might think to yourself, why not date them? What is the problem with marrying them?
Well, in marriage and in very deep relationships, you are connecting emotionally, mentally, spiritually, (and in marriage, physically). While this young woman might be emotionally available and might otherwise be a wonderful girl, if she does not believe in Christ, you will not be able to connect with her spiritually (or worse, you might be drawn away from the things of God due to what is in her spirit - think about Solomon and the influence of his many wives).
If you are new in your walk in Christ or even if you have been a Christian for a long time, but you haven't really surrendered all areas of your life to Christ, this will not bother you. But as you continue with your walk and as the Lord draws you deeper into Him - and particularly as you become more and more spiritually aware, you will feel/sense the disconnection. As you start to really hear and follow the Lord - there will be times that He will tell you to do things that make no sense - but, because you know His voice and desire to please Him, you will want to obey - and conflict will start. You will find joy in things that they will find silly - but you will love it because God loves it. And as you walk this way, you will also come up against spiritual warfare on levels that you never imagined. And that person will not be able to stand with you - they probably will not understand you and might even think that you are crazy or exaggerating. If you start to become aware of things that happen in the spiritual realm, you will begin to sense a lot of things - even though a person might be perfectly nice, you will still be able to sense what is not the Holy Spirit and it will bother you. And I haven't even mentioned the practical stuff - like tithing even when you don't see the money - or not taking a certain job that seems perfect but God has warned you to stay away from. Or having intimacy in prayer or a myriad of other things.
Also, the more deeply you walk, you'll also find that you won't have that "fit" even with Christians who do not recognize and welcome the Holy Spirit or walk by the Spirit. You will gain greater discernment and will be able to listen beyond someone's words - and if what they are saying is not of the Lord - or if there is mixture in it (worldly wisdom and godly wisdom) - it will grieve you to your very core. You'll find yourself making adjustments in your conversation because they won't understand a lot of what you are talking about. They'll probably be very nice to you though - even though they think that you are too "religious". This can be immensely draining. But, once you experience that automatic "fit" with believers who are walking this way - you won't have to adjust - and once you experience what it is to speak freely and connect spiritually - you'll feel the absense of "fit" more acutely. This "fit" is amazing because you can walk into a room of strangers, but recognize a believer - because you recognize the Holy Spirit - and you can connect with that person, even if they are of a different race, ethnic background, political leaning, personality or any earthly thing - or don't even speak the same language.
I don't know if God directs people today to marry or date anyone who is an unbeliever. Hosea springs to mind as a biblical example - but God kept him as he went through all of the changes that he went through. I've heard of people who have gotten saved as a result of being married to a believing spouse. But I've never heard a story where it has been without a lot of pain.
So, to spare yourself all of that, you probably don't even want to start dating a non-believer. There are many Christian women who would probably be a better fit for you - who are also emotionally available and attractive. My advice would be to wait until you meet one of those women and in the meantime (and afterwards) continue to run after Christ with your whole heart.
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/14/2008 8:54:48 AM
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vixir
Posts: 140
Joined: 2/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod
I have a question, why would your son not be able to see his dad? Just because you and the father not together doesn't mean that he can't have a relationship with his father (phone calls, visits). Is it because he is several states away and might not make the effort?
Exactly! I've thought about maybe staying in Texas so that they can see each other. But I highly doubt his daddy would take advantage of that opportunity. We'll have to see what happens.
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/14/2008 10:03:21 AM
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manda59
Posts: 6187
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod
The last time that I checked, 7th Day Adventists were Christians - so I'm not sure if I'm following you when you say that your friend is dating a non-Christian. I'm a little confused about this.
You need to reread his post - it's his friend (a female) who is a 7th Day Adventist.
_____________________________
"Manda is right"
mvic, January 2009
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RE: Unequally Yolked - 6/14/2008 11:08:05 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3041
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rgod
The last time that I checked, 7th Day Adventists were Christians
While I do believe that there may be an isolated number of true believers in 7th Day, the Seventh-day Adventist church is, theologically, a cult of Christinaity. They promote doctrines that are contrary to the gospel and unorthodox in nature. Do some research.
But, like Manda said, it isn't her boyfriend who is 7th Day...he is an atheist. It might be helpful for those who respond to this young woman to read the thread thoroughly because there is so much at stake for her.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Fro
I am dating a pre-Christian
With al due respect, there is no such thing, and I nearly spit out my coffee when I read this. You either are His or you aren't. There are no gray areas with the Lord about that. He knows those who are His and they know Him ...
14 "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep" -John 10
If your "date" dies today as a "pre-Christian" it won't get her any closer to heaven than if she were pre-Med.
I would so appreciate it if people would not condone something that is absolutely contrary to the Word of God. The Bible, in no uncertain terms, tells us NOT to be unequally yoked. To lead the OP to believe that anything short of that is somehow O.K. is reckless.
To the OP: I know you are broken hearted right now, but God will richly bless you for choosing Him above your desire to be in this man. You may not see that now, but I promise you, you will. God greatly rewards the obedience of His children.
You are on my heart and in my prayers. I am praying that God will continue to give you the strength to do what He is asking you to do and also comfort you and bring you peace.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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