RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (Full Version)

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spade -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 11:35:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker

Why would it be leading them on when we're not dating? Leading someone on is when they've expressed an interest in dating, and I keep doing these things with them. But if we're just friends, what's wrong with going out for a bite to eat after a long hike? Or checking out a movie? Don't friends do that?


I don't think there is anything wrong with it, but it does seem likely to lead to hurt feelings. I don't understand how, on one hand, you hang out one-on-one in very date-like ways with male friends. On the other hand, you said there is truth in the statement that men won't hang out with women much one-on-one unless they are interested in more. Yet, you feel deceived if a "friend" you've been pseudo-dating expresses romantic interests, since he misled you.

I just don't understand why, given the assumptions you have about men's behaviors and motives in this area, why you feel deceived when they prove your assumptions right.

To me, your question in the men's folder might as well be, "So, men, is it true you won't date a woman unless you're interested in dating her?"



John_O -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 9:21:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Yes...as a matter of fact, I do. In fact I have plans with my guy best friend for this weekend for a quiet evening watching movies, eating dinner and talking. *gasp* Sounds like a date to me...but guess what? It's not.

I am fortunate to have the insight to discuss with my guy friends, "Are you interested in something more than a friendship with me?" if he says no, then we proceed. If he says yes, I take it VERY slowly.


And this is critical. If you've not had the "We are just friends and no more" talk then it's a date. It's only not a date if BOTH people know it's not a date.

Way too easy to be mislead, and to mislead in these situations.



jlp1 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 10:02:58 AM)

it's better to know than to wait with all your passions burning inside of you, eating at you every moment of every hour of every day, that's pure torture. I don't think I would ever wait so long again. It's better to ask and get it over with so you can deal with your feelings in a proper manner. Please, please, please just ask (rip the band-aid off quickly deal with it instead of think about how it might hurt, unnecessary torture we put on ourselves). Its might not be so bad. This is from personal experience!!!



AlwaysR8chel -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 12:11:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spade

My own rabbit-chasing notwithstanding, I really do want to use this thread to talk about how people can move from being friends to dating successfully. How does it happen?

.
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......... [sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]



Spade: "Well, Miss Jane Doe, I have certainly had a good time getting to know you."

Jane Doe: "Really?" * blushes and twists her hair *

Spade: "I'd really like to get to know you better. Would you consider going out on a date with me?" * invisible gulp and huge beating of the heart *

Jane Doe: "Uuummm.... really?" *more blushing and hair twisting as she needs reassurance and hopes to be pursued *

Spade: "Yes, I enjoy you... I want to spend more time with you." * trying not to fidget *

Jane Doe: "Sure!" * batting eyelashes and trying not to look too eager *


OR

Jane Doe: "I'm not sure that would be a good idea..." * looking at the floor *

Spade: "Okay, that's fine. I am enjoying our friendship and hope it won't change." * trying his best to keep calm eye contact *

Jane Doe: "Oh good... " * sigh of relief *

Spade: "Good. See you around!" * heavy heart which will heal *



...........

Those are my thoughts.... at least.... I am the kind of girl who admires bravery.... and will most likely say yes to a date just because of his bravery.... [:D]



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 12:15:23 PM)

Awesome post R8ch! And completely possible.

[sm=thumbsup.gif][sm=thumbsup.gif][sm=thumbsup.gif]



AlwaysR8chel -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 12:25:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_

And completely possible.

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.......... my point exactly. A woman wants to know for sure that a man wants her.....

... if there is any waiver.... the process of pursuit takes longer....

When a woman is pursued.... she has no doubt she is wanted and loved....

........ so important. [;)]



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 2:49:33 PM)

i do see people reframing the argument ... as happened also in the original reply. if someone asks you on a romantic date and you said you prefer to be friends and then a couple weeks later or couple months later, you start to feel something for them ... then you'd obviously speak up in that situation. it seems clear to me that op is referring to the case where there is friendship at the start and not romantic intentions. why are people changing the discussion to prove their point. why not start yet another friends thread in singles so we can fill the front page just to try to state your point exclusively :) cause seriously some of these replies in these friends threads are trying to take the thread in different directions.



spade -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 4:39:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysR8chel

quote:

ORIGINAL: spade

My own rabbit-chasing notwithstanding, I really do want to use this thread to talk about how people can move from being friends to dating successfully. How does it happen?

.
.
.
.
......... [sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]



Spade: "Well, Miss Jane Doe, I have certainly had a good time getting to know you."

Jane Doe: "Really?" * blushes and twists her hair *

Spade: "I'd really like to get to know you better. Would you consider going out on a date with me?" * invisible gulp and huge beating of the heart *

Jane Doe: "Uuummm.... really?" *more blushing and hair twisting as she needs reassurance and hopes to be pursued *

Spade: "Yes, I enjoy you... I want to spend more time with you." * trying not to fidget *

Jane Doe: "Sure!" * batting eyelashes and trying not to look too eager *


OR

Jane Doe: "I'm not sure that would be a good idea..." * looking at the floor *

Spade: "Okay, that's fine. I am enjoying our friendship and hope it won't change." * trying his best to keep calm eye contact *

Jane Doe: "Oh good... " * sigh of relief *

Spade: "Good. See you around!" * heavy heart which will heal *



...........

Those are my thoughts.... at least.... I am the kind of girl who admires bravery.... and will most likely say yes to a date just because of his bravery.... [:D]


LOL.

As helpful as a script might be, I'm hoping for some abstract responses to. There is a lot to risk when you develop feelings for a friend. When is it worth taking the risk to share how you feel? For instance, if you knew that your friend didn't share your feelings, why share?

But how could someone tell if a friend liked them? How can you tell if a friend doesn't like you?



AlwaysR8chel -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 4:40:14 PM)

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........ body language and voice tone is a good clue! [;)]



Oh yeah.... I forgot .... THE LEAN.


Maybe you should watch While You Were Sleeping.... [;)]



John_O -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/23/2008 10:49:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysR8chel

.
.
.
.
........ body language and voice tone is a good clue! [;)]



Oh yeah.... I forgot .... THE LEAN.


Maybe you should watch While You Were Sleeping.... [;)]



Ya but if the friends are close enough the lean can be misleading. If she's really comfortable she can lean into her guy friend like she'd lean into a brother. From the guy's viewpoint the leans are indistinguishable.



WaitingforBoaz -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/24/2008 1:42:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysR8chel

.
.
.
.
........ body language and voice tone is a good clue! [;)]



Oh yeah.... I forgot .... THE LEAN.


Maybe you should watch While You Were Sleeping.... [;)]



Ya but if the friends are close enough the lean can be misleading. If she's really comfortable she can lean into her guy friend like she'd lean into a brother. From the guy's viewpoint the leans are indistinguishable.

You do get it John. The guy friends are like brothers. Maybe even closer.
We sometimes held hands, put arms around each other while walking, and yes we leaned. (I never was this close to another man after I was married however.)



Prairiehiker -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/24/2008 2:37:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spade

I don't think there is anything wrong with it, but it does seem likely to lead to hurt feelings. I don't understand how, on one hand, you hang out one-on-one in very date-like ways with male friends. On the other hand, you said there is truth in the statement that men won't hang out with women much one-on-one unless they are interested in more. Yet, you feel deceived if a "friend" you've been pseudo-dating expresses romantic interests, since he misled you.

I just don't understand why, given the assumptions you have about men's behaviors and motives in this area, why you feel deceived when they prove your assumptions right.
To me, your question in the men's folder might as well be, "So, men, is it true you won't date a woman unless you're interested in dating her?"


I know you don't want this to go off topic, but you asked some questions, so I'll respond. I don't know how spending one on one time with a male friend translate to 'pseudo dating'. I operate under the assumption that we are just friends unless one clarifies the nature of the relationship, or one makes it obvious that they are interested in something more than friendship. Perhaps this is where we differ. Being friends to me is just that, and there is no clarification needed to define the relationship, in my opinion. When I'm with male friends, I don't act in such a way that I can mislead them. I stay from every physical contact (no hugs, no holding hands, always a few feet away from each other), and I don't engage in misleading talk. No sappy conversations. No date like conversations like "let's go out for dinner " but instead, "hey, you hungry, want to grab a bite to eat?'. In other words, just friendship between two people who enjoy hanging out and doing things together.

I felt decieved when I mentioned this to a friend who told me that men do not spend that much time with women unless they are interested. So, now, I tend to stay away from those type of friendship and limit the time I spend with male friends. This is really too bad, because I have more in common with male than female when it comes to activities that I enjoy.



John_O -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/24/2008 3:55:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: followtheLeader
You do get it John. The guy friends are like brothers. Maybe even closer.
We sometimes held hands, put arms around each other while walking, and yes we leaned. (I never was this close to another man after I was married however.)


So the "friends first" bunch want to date their brothers!?[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]


(Sorry. I just couldn't resist[:D])



WaitingforBoaz -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/24/2008 4:08:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

quote:

ORIGINAL: followtheLeader
You do get it John. The guy friends are like brothers. Maybe even closer.
We sometimes held hands, put arms around each other while walking, and yes we leaned. (I never was this close to another man after I was married however.)


So the "friends first" bunch want to date their brothers!?[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]


(Sorry. I just couldn't resist[:D])

[sm=shakinghead.gif][sm=shakinghead.gif][sm=shakinghead.gif][sm=shakinghead.gif][sm=shakinghead.gif][sm=shakinghead.gif]
[sm=popsigh.gif][sm=popsigh.gif][sm=popsigh.gif][sm=popsigh.gif][sm=popsigh.gif]
[sm=icon_smile_dead.gif][sm=icon_smile_dead.gif][sm=icon_smile_dead.gif][sm=icon_smile_dead.gif]
[8|][8|][8|]
[:D]


Tease![sm=nosestuckup.gif]



spade -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/24/2008 10:40:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker

I know you don't want this to go off topic, but you asked some questions, so I'll respond. I don't know how spending one on one time with a male friend translate to 'pseudo dating'. I operate under the assumption that we are just friends unless one clarifies the nature of the relationship, or one makes it obvious that they are interested in something more than friendship. Perhaps this is where we differ. Being friends to me is just that, and there is no clarification needed to define the relationship, in my opinion. When I'm with male friends, I don't act in such a way that I can mislead them. I stay from every physical contact (no hugs, no holding hands, always a few feet away from each other), and I don't engage in misleading talk. No sappy conversations. No date like conversations like "let's go out for dinner " but instead, "hey, you hungry, want to grab a bite to eat?'. In other words, just friendship between two people who enjoy hanging out and doing things together.

I felt decieved when I mentioned this to a friend who told me that men do not spend that much time with women unless they are interested. So, now, I tend to stay away from those type of friendship and limit the time I spend with male friends. This is really too bad, because I have more in common with male than female when it comes to activities that I enjoy.


Part of the reason I'm equating one-on-one outings with opposite sex friends with "pseudo-dating" is that I've been told most people view it as dating, regardless of what the parties involved think.

But, another reason I think of it as awfully close to dating is because I rarely hang out one-on-one with anyone to begin with, same or opposite sex. I tend to hang out in small to medium size groups with friends from church and work. If one of my guy friends were to ask me if I wanted to go with him somewhere by ourselves, I would interpret it as a date.

When I was in high school and college, I didn't see it that way. I had great guy friends that I spent plenty of time with one-on-one. There was never any romantic interest, and it was never even a small issue.

But now that I'm pushing 30 (ack!), I see it differently. I can understand, though, that if you're already hanging out, going to grab a bite to eat isn't the moment when it goes from friendship to dating. However, you did arrange to get together at some point. If you made plans to go rock climbing together, why didn't you think that was a date?

And yes, I'm off topic. Oh well. :)



FunBetty -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/25/2008 1:53:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker


I felt decieved when I mentioned this to a friend who told me that men do not spend that much time with women unless they are interested. So, now, I tend to stay away from those type of friendship and limit the time I spend with male friends. This is really too bad, because I have more in common with male than female when it comes to activities that I enjoy.


Not always true. I had to learn the hard way. [&o]



mutinywxgirl -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/25/2008 7:22:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FunBetty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker


I felt decieved when I mentioned this to a friend who told me that men do not spend that much time with women unless they are interested. So, now, I tend to stay away from those type of friendship and limit the time I spend with male friends. This is really too bad, because I have more in common with male than female when it comes to activities that I enjoy.


Not always true. I had to learn the hard way. [&o]


Actually, I do think it is true - in spite of our respective lessons learned in this respect. Unless the man is utterly heartless, they have to find *something* about us that makes them want to be around us as much as they do to make us believe what we did - that old adage - actions speak louder than words??? But, we obviously weren't what they were looking for romantically. That's what makes it so hard. That's why men have to be SO careful when they spend a lot of time with a woman - you're dealing with our hearts guys - and if you are NOT interested in anything more, then don't spend countless hours on the phone or in person with us - it does us NO good.



Elena1030 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/25/2008 3:35:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: followtheLeader
We sometimes held hands, put arms around each other while walking, and yes we leaned. (I never was this close to another man after I was married however.)


Are you a huggy person?

I have a gal pal who likes to do that (walk arm in arm), and it makes me uncomfortable. Not that I don't feel affectionate toward her. I'll hug her, scratch her back, give her a back rub. But I do that with my mom, my sister, and my handful of other close gal pals. But the whole Jane-Austen-era walking arm-in-arm thing just doesn't work for me. Wish it did, but it doesn't.

So... if I won't even do it with gal pals, I'm certainly NOT gonna do it with guy friends.

If I "lean" on a guy for a long period of time (I'm not talking about the playful punch on his upper arm), then I'm probably "into" him... or I'm already dating him!!!

Physical affection is a big deal to me. It signals strongly various things, so that's why I'm careful about appropriate touches that are proportionate to the kind of relationship I have with a person.

I also don't hold hands unless it's with a child who needs such boundaries (like my little 3.5-year-old friend, E-bit) --- like when crossing the street or walking in a store --- or it's with the guy I'm dating (and even then, holding hands connotes a more serious commitment, so I wouldn't do it till we were exclusive and heading toward engagement).



I guess you can count me in the John_O camp. [8D]



Elena1030 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/25/2008 3:45:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mutinywxgirl

Unless the man is utterly heartless, they have to find *something* about us that makes them want to be around us as much as they do to make us believe what we did - that old adage - actions speak louder than words??? But, we obviously weren't what they were looking for romantically. That's what makes it so hard. That's why men have to be SO careful when they spend a lot of time with a woman - you're dealing with our hearts, guys - and if you are NOT interested in anything more, then don't spend countless hours on the phone or in person with us one on one - it does us NO good.


Amen, amen, amen!!

It has been so hard to recover from a crush I had (I liked him immediately) because we had become such close friends, though he did keep me at somewhat of a distance. I don't think he did anything wrong. He has lots of gal pals whom he regards as akin to sisters and spends one-on-one time with them. That works fine for him. But it doesn't work for me. And it took about 4 years of knowing him to find out he's in the "friends first" camp!

But... even being in the friends first camp really didn't explain why he didn't pursue me. B/c when he knows he wants to date a girl, he doesn't take YEARS to date her. I know... b/c he's now dating one of our mutual friends. (And I'm thrilled for them. They are a great match!!) [I wonder, though, if he was romantically attracted to her from the get-go... like she was not in the friends-only zone on his "ladder." *grin*]

So... I wasn't wasting my time making a friendship and being a friend... but I did misdirect a lot of my emotional investment.... much of that should have been preserved for the man I date, rather than just a guy pal who won't EVER become my husband. I should have directed all that devotion and mooning over him...to God...and He would have made all that devotion-leaning of my heart to be a healthy thing --- b/c it would have been directed at Him.

Make sense?



Prairiehiker -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/25/2008 4:57:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spade

But now that I'm pushing 30 (ack!), I see it differently. I can understand, though, that if you're already hanging out, going to grab a bite to eat isn't the moment when it goes from friendship to dating. However, you did arrange to get together at some point. If you made plans to go rock climbing together, why didn't you think that was a date?

And yes, I'm off topic. Oh well. :)


It all depends on where you meet people and how much you really know them. If you see people daily at work, or at the gym, and you talk everyday about your interest, then it's so much easier to invite them out to take the friendship outside of your comfort zone. Also, a lot of it has to do with the way I talk to them and act around them. When I'm interested in someone, I act like a giggly teenager who can't utter anything intelligent, lol. But if I'm being friends with someone, I can talk their ears off. The language I use and the tone of my voice is so different when I'm talking to male friends. Most of communication is body language and tone of voice, so I would think that most men would pick up on that when I am interacting with them.

And to add, I don't ask men out if I'm interested in them.



vikingfan -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/25/2008 7:07:15 PM)

See, now, as a guy, I am horrible at picking up body language and tone of voice and interpreting it correctly. This is why you always hear the classic thing about guys who ask their wife what she wants for her birthday and she says, "Nothing," and he doesn't get her anything. Fortunately, I know better than that, but nevertheless, what a lady says to me I will usually interpret literally unless I have reason to think otherwise. Unless a girl is REALLY sending the signals via body language, I probably won't pick them up...that's happened before.

the life of a guy, I guess...



John_O -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/25/2008 8:29:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elena1030
I guess you can count me in the John_O camp. [8D]

I always knew that in addition to your grace and elegance you were a very intelligent women.[:D]
[:D][:D]



woodwind228 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/26/2008 12:26:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O

quote:

ORIGINAL: followtheLeader
You do get it John. The guy friends are like brothers. Maybe even closer.
We sometimes held hands, put arms around each other while walking, and yes we leaned. (I never was this close to another man after I was married however.)


So the "friends first" bunch want to date their brothers!?[sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif][sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]


(Sorry. I just couldn't resist[:D])


OMGosh!!!! I hope I didn't just wake up my daughter! That should teach me to read some of these posts when I should really be sleeping...



Single4Life -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/26/2008 5:19:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spade

As helpful as a script might be, I'm hoping for some abstract responses to. There is a lot to risk when you develop feelings for a friend. When is it worth taking the risk to share how you feel? For instance, if you knew that your friend didn't share your feelings, why share?

But how could someone tell if a friend liked them? How can you tell if a friend doesn't like you?


A female friend of mine recently moved away. We had spent some alone-time together going out to eat, playing tennis, and talking on the phone. When I took her out for a farewell dinner a few months ago, the topic of dating came up. She then confessed to me that she used to like me. The funny thing is that I probably could've have had an interest in her at the same time, but she NEVER RETURNED MY CALLS OR E-MAILS!! For the "feelers" I was putting out there, I didn't think I was getting even a basic response!!

So, I took that as my answer...she wasn't interested.

Spade, if you are interested in a guy, I would say to be sure to return his e-mails or phone calls...fo sho!! Like I said in another post, I wouldn't feel comfortable with the idea of a woman initiating a relationship, but she can respond to his contact...at the very least. If you don't, you don't seem interested in even a friendship!

You can always do a little something special for him. At different times in life, I was "pursuing" women, even though I wasn't sure about their interest in me. They made their feelings clear when they personally dropped off special gifts at my apartment/job. The gifts were nothing over the top, but something they knew was meaningful to me at that time.

Just some ideas. Be responsive and be attentive, but let him be the man and pursue you. It's helpful when a woman does give some encouragement when you "pursue" her. It lets you know where she is coming alongside of you.



SR20FL -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/26/2008 6:22:42 AM)

Wow, the tables are turned. It's usually more common for the guy to be interested in the girl.

Speaking on the turned table, it's difficult for me to be "one on one" friends with a girl manly because I have had several (note, several) girl friends express an interest in me as more than just a friend when I wasn't interested in going any further. A lot of girls are just normally playful, touchy feely, and extremely friendly to a lot of guys guys with no real interest. I like to be friendly too. It's IMPOSSIBLE to tell until that one day they start throwing those obvious hints. I then start to get that feeling I'll be ridiculed for saying "no", as I have been before!

I worked with my manager for 2 years. She was 2 years older than me and out of high school(17/19). At the time I drove a freshly painted red Toyota MR2 turbo 5 spd. We always had a manager to co-worker/ friend kind of relationship. Then SUDDENLY over the period of two days she started acting awfully nice to me and mentioning how she thought guys who drove MR2 turbos were hot. She gave me her number the next night. I thought she was joking. I had no interest in her... than she started playing the "mean manager" role to me until she found another man. Go figure.

When I first started the job I had in high school, this girl was showing me how to "mix" the mayonnaise up. Note that "mixing the mayonnaise up" WAS NOT a procedure, and by no means was ever needed. She started mixing it, and then said "yes, I like it niiiiice and creamy". I was more interested in making a good impression to my employer, not getting freaky with a co-worker. I ignored the flirting, and treated it as if it was really a procedure saying "okay so how often do we have to mix it up?". Two weeks later she said I was ugly.

I have only been true one on one friends (not just everyday acquaintances; got plenty of those) with ONE girl....Only one, and that's after knowing her for a few years, and knowing that she had a boyfriend. Yes, she was pretty, pretty as in I could see what other guys saw in her, but I just wasn't interested at all. Being friends with a girl to me does not mean being affectionate. Helpful and supportive? Yes, but not affectionate. Not holding hands, not leaning on one another, etc. The only "affectionate" thing we did was hugging when we would meet and leave. We could talk and joke about anything. When I would reach for something above her, I would say something dumb like "I didn't wear deodorant today so beware! haha" and she would laugh it off and she would say something like like she's guilty for not shaving her legs in a long time, or even GASP forgetting to wear deodorant...Yes girls actually forget too! We would laugh it off. I would give her positive advice when her and her boyfriend were going through trouble, and she would help me out with the girl I was with. We would talk about the kind of stuff you would NEVER talk about during a date. That's the kind of friends we were. Not affectionate by any means.

Girls, if your "guy friend" is perfectly fine with being affectionate with you, as in letting you lean on him for a long time during a movie, then he's either interested in going further, or he's bi/gay. Now I'm gonna get flamed by girls with affectionate friends. Aww well. I brought it upon myself.



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