When he's a friend, but you want more

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spade -> When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 8:50:52 PM)
If a six-page thread on "friends first" can pop up in just two days, I'm curious to see where this goes. Here's the question: If you have been good friends with someone for a period of time, and have come to desire more than a friendship, how should you let him know? You don't want to lay it on too thick and ruin the friendship if he's not interested, but you want to take some risk. How should a woman signal that while she said "friends first" in the past, she's now ready to date if he's interested? Or, put another way, how can a guy know that a woman is now interested in more, so he knows when to take the plunge and ask her out?

Prairiehiker -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:13:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spade If a six-page thread on "friends first" can pop up in just two days, I'm curious to see where this goes. Here's the question: If you have been good friends with someone for a period of time, and have come to desire more than a friendship, how should you let him know? You don't want to lay it on too thick and ruin the friendship if he's not interested, but you want to take some risk. How should a woman signal that while she said "friends first" in the past, she's now ready to date if he's interested? Was he interested before, or has it always been just friendship? IF he was interested and she gave him that "friends first" talk, then the ball is now in her court. She should take the risk and find out if he's still interested. This is what I don't like about the friendship first approach. It's about one having a control of the timetable of the relationship. And often times, it's the woman who wants control of the man. It's when she's ready, or when she's secure, it's when she can see that he's good enough for her, instead of relating to each other on the same level. It's like when a man has jumped through whatever hoops she's laid before the man that she can say, well done, you can date me now. That kind of attitude drives me insane, and if I was a man, I'd bolt at the first sign of control. quote: Or, put another way, how can a guy know that a woman is now interested in more, so he knows when to take the plunge and ask her out? So, you're saying the scenario involves a man asking a woman out who said "friends first" but now the woman is ready. She has to be an incredible woman for a man to stick around for a long period of time or he has to be desperate to hang around that long. If she's ready and he's still around, I doubt a woman would have to do much to get his attention. Just a note: If a man has to wait around for my go signal to ask me out and not take the initiative and lack the backbone to lead, then I probably won't want him. Whew! I think the few threads about men being whimpy and friendship first is getting to me, lol.

Psalms274 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:34:02 PM)
quote: It's about one having a control of the timetable of the relationship. And often times, it's the woman who wants control of the man. It's when she's ready, or when she's secure, it's when she can see that he's good enough for her, instead of relating to each other on the same level. It's like when a man has jumped through whatever hoops she's laid before the man that she can say, well done, you can date me now. Oh my goodness ... nothing could be farther from the truth. Have you ever had a friend that you started to have feelings for? It is very important to address a question based on your own experience in terms of your own motivation and past emotions as opposed to assuming a motive of another when someone does something differently than what you are use to. (I am assuming that you have not done this since this is a pretty terrible reason ... and I am sure you are not that mean.) The most important thing is to take God's leading in the matter. I go with the premise that God will lead through the man. I did one time let my friend know in a letter that my feelings had grown to something more ... and left it up to him to seek God's heart in the matter. I knew that if God was in it, He could be trusted to prompt my friend. It was anything but a game of manipulation ... it was very frightening ... but I knew that my God could be trusted, and I needed to be honest with my friend about how I felt.

shemaromans -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:38:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 quote: It's about one having a control of the timetable of the relationship. And often times, it's the woman who wants control of the man. It's when she's ready, or when she's secure, it's when she can see that he's good enough for her, instead of relating to each other on the same level. It's like when a man has jumped through whatever hoops she's laid before the man that she can say, well done, you can date me now. Oh my goodness ... nothing could be farther from the truth. Have you ever had a friend that you started to have feelings for? It is very important to address a question based on your own experience in terms of your own motivation and past emotions as opposed to assuming a motive of another when someone does something differently than what you are use to. (I am assuming that you have not done this since this is a pretty terrible reason ... and I am sure you are not that mean.) The most important thing is to take God's leading in the matter. I go with the premise that God will lead through the man. I did one time let my friend know in a letter that my feelings had grown to something more ... and left it up to him to seek God's heart in the matter. I knew that if God was in it, He could be trusted to prompt my friend. It was anything but a game of manipulation ... it was very frightening ... but I knew that my God could be trusted, and I needed to be honest with my friend about how I felt. I think that Prairie posted an honest, insightful critique of the behavior of some women. I've actually heard many a woman comment along the lines of what Prairie posted. No need to assume a person's motives when they speak it loudly and clearly.

Prairiehiker -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:43:11 PM)
My dear Psalm, I'm far from being mean. I just can't stand the games that people play. Most of the response from people are based on "when I start feeling" or "when I'm ready for something more". It seems that one thinks God's leading is based on when someone starts feeling. God is used to justify acting on one's feeling. Remember, in the original question, the OP asked how can a woman let someone know she's ready. There was no mention of God's leading. And no, I don't lead someone on. I know when I'm interested in dating someone and I have no problem letting him know that I want him to ask me out. If someone I have feelings for just wants to be friends, I doubt I'd stick around hoping someday he'll see me as good enough to date.

John_O -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:43:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spade If a six-page thread on "friends first" can pop up in just two days, I'm curious to see where this goes. Here's the question: If you have been good friends with someone for a period of time, and have come to desire more than a friendship, how should you let him know? You don't want to lay it on too thick and ruin the friendship if he's not interested, but you want to take some risk. How should a woman signal that while she said "friends first" in the past, she's now ready to date if he's interested? Or, put another way, how can a guy know that a woman is now interested in more, so he knows when to take the plunge and ask her out? I see two real questions here. 1. How do you move from friends to more than friends and 2. How do you preserve the friendship if one is interested and one's not. I can't answer 1 as I've never been there. (I've never dated a friend, I've always developed a friendship with the women I dated) As for 2 I'd hazard a guess that once one is interested the friendship is pretty much over (as it was). It will change somehow. It will either develop into more (if both are interested) or become painful and uncomfortable if only one is interested. The sad thing is that it doesn't matter if the interested person tells the other person about their interest or not. The relationship will still change because their attitudes will change.

Psalms274 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:45:44 PM)
quote: And no, I don't lead someone on. I will assume from this statement that you have not been a friend first. It sounds like you cannot speak for another who has been there, and what I am suggesting is that you be careful in your assumptions ... I know from experience that those assumptions are incorrect.

WaitingforBoaz -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:48:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker quote: ORIGINAL: spade If a six-page thread on "friends first" can pop up in just two days, I'm curious to see where this goes. Here's the question: If you have been good friends with someone for a period of time, and have come to desire more than a friendship, how should you let him know? You don't want to lay it on too thick and ruin the friendship if he's not interested, but you want to take some risk. How should a woman signal that while she said "friends first" in the past, she's now ready to date if he's interested? Was he interested before, or has it always been just friendship? IF he was interested and she gave him that "friends first" talk, then the ball is now in her court. She should take the risk and find out if he's still interested. This is what I don't like about the friendship first approach. It's about one having a control of the timetable of the relationship. And often times, it's the woman who wants control of the man. It's when she's ready, or when she's secure, it's when she can see that he's good enough for her, instead of relating to each other on the same level. It's like when a man has jumped through whatever hoops she's laid before the man that she can say, well done, you can date me now. That kind of attitude drives me insane, and if I was a man, I'd bolt at the first sign of control. quote: Or, put another way, how can a guy know that a woman is now interested in more, so he knows when to take the plunge and ask her out? So, you're saying the scenario involves a man asking a woman out who said "friends first" but now the woman is ready. She has to be an incredible woman for a man to stick around for a long period of time or he has to be desperate to hang around that long. If she's ready and he's still around, I doubt a woman would have to do much to get his attention. Just a note: If a man has to wait around for my go signal to ask me out and not take the initiative and lack the backbone to lead, then I probably won't want him. Whew! I think the few threads about men being whimpy and friendship first is getting to me, lol. I'm not going to question a persons motives but this post is a direct attack on those that believe in friends first. I am going to assume it was not meant that way.

spade -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:48:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker This is what I don't like about the friendship first approach. It's about one having a control of the timetable of the relationship. And often times, it's the woman who wants control of the man. It's when she's ready, or when she's secure, it's when she can see that he's good enough for her, instead of relating to each other on the same level. It's like when a man has jumped through whatever hoops she's laid before the man that she can say, well done, you can date me now. That kind of attitude drives me insane, and if I was a man, I'd bolt at the first sign of control. I'm sure that does happen some. But intentional manipulation isn't the kind of situation I had in mind. I'm more interested in the kind of situation Psalm274 suggested - two people started as friends, perhaps with no thoughts of anything else every developing. Later, at least one of the people would be interested in dating, but isn't sure how the other feels. If it's the guy who wants more, it would be fantastic if he took the big leap. But if she's always careful to not give a signal because she wants him to lead (like she said about yourself), how is he supposed to know she would consider it? If she won't signal because he should lead, and he won't risk the friendship and his feelings when she's still signaling "friend", how are two people supposed to go from friends to more?

Psalms274 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:49:58 PM)
quote: As for 2 I'd hazard a guess that once one is interested the friendship is pretty much over (as it was). It will change somehow. It will either develop into more (if both are interested) or become painful and uncomfortable if only one is interested. The sad thing is that it doesn't matter if the interested person tells the other person about their interest or not. The relationship will still change because their attitudes will change. Actually, from my own experience, the change is only temporary. My friendships became stronger. It probably has a lot to do with the maturity of the persons involved ... I typically fall for the strong Christian type who knows how to seek God's face. I have a number of friends who are married after the friends first scenario and each of there stories are very different.

shemaromans -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:51:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 I will assume from this statement that you have not been a friend first. It sounds like you cannot speak for another who has been there, and what I am suggesting is that you be careful in your assumptions ... I know from experience that those assumptions are incorrect. I appreciate that you're recommending that people be careful in their assumptions. I also agree that we shouldn't assume the motivations of others. But did you read my post? I know from experience (I didn't act this way but I heard directly and observed directly) that some women do act this way. Some people can be very mean spirited. It's unfortunate but also the truth.

spade -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:56:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker Remember, in the original question, the OP asked how can a woman let someone know she's ready. There was no mention of God's leading. Ah, come on. I'm a card-carrying conservative Christian intent on only doing what pleases God. I just refuse to couch every statement in religious-ese to prove it. (I'll probably be blasted for putting it that way, but oh well.) Let's assume the people involved are godly, mature Christians. I don't have any interested in how ungodly people move from being friends to dating; I'm curious how we as Christians should. If I wanted to know how ungodly, worldly people do relationships, I wouldn't ask on a conservative Christian forum.

WhiteRoseBlessings -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:58:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spade quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker Remember, in the original question, the OP asked how can a woman let someone know she's ready. There was no mention of God's leading. Ah, come on. I'm a card-carrying conservative Christian intent on only doing what pleases God. I just refuse to couch every statement in religious-ese to prove it. (I'll probably be blasted for putting it that way, but oh well.) Let's assume the people involved are godly, mature Christians. I don't have any interested in how ungodly people move from being friends to dating; I'm curious how we as Christians should. If I wanted to know how ungodly, worldly people do relationships, I wouldn't ask on a conservative Christian forum. Very well said, Spade, and I commend you for doing so!

Psalms274 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 9:58:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shemaromans quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 I will assume from this statement that you have not been a friend first. It sounds like you cannot speak for another who has been there, and what I am suggesting is that you be careful in your assumptions ... I know from experience that those assumptions are incorrect. I appreciate that you're recommending that people be careful in their assumptions. I also agree that we shouldn't assume the motivations of others. But did you read my post? I know from experience (I didn't act this way but I heard directly and observed directly) that some women do act this way. Some people can be very mean spirited. It's unfortunate but also the truth. No I didn't read your post ... I was busy writing at the time. [;)] When I stated the assumptions were incorrect I was referring to my own experience inside my own head. (As scary as that place can be ... [;)]) I too have observed others behave in an un-Christlike manner ... but I also know even though they act and say things that look very inappropriate ... I do not have the whole story. I think because of all the contention over this subject, it would probably be best to give our own personal thoughts when experiencing this type of scenario, rather than projecting motivations onto others we have observed.

Prairiehiker -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 10:08:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 quote: And no, I don't lead someone on. I will assume from this statement that you have not been a friend first. It sounds like you cannot speak for another who has been there, and what I am suggesting is that you be careful in your assumptions ... I know from experience that those assumptions are incorrect. On the contrary, I have had too many friends that are male, and in most of those cases, they became interested in me, or were originally interested in me so they did the "friends first" approach. I, on the other hand, had no interest in them, and when they expressed an interest, it made me run away in the other direction. I felt that the interest was not really about being friends from the start and I felt somewhat deceived. I NO, I've never dated anyone that's I've been friends first. But I've been friends with a lot of the men I've dated after the relationship has ended. Go figure. To the OP, I think the only way to deal with it is to take the risk. You might lose the friendship because not everyone can handle the change in the dynamic of the relationship. But it's better to be open to people in your life than to go on having a secret wish of dating them. I mean, you're not just friends to begin with if you have feelings, right?

shemaromans -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 10:14:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 No I didn't read your post ... I was busy writing at the time. [;)] When I stated the assumptions were incorrect I was referring to my own experience inside my own head. (As scary as that place can be ... [;)]) I too have observed others behave in an un-Christlike manner ... but I also know even though they act and say things that look very inappropriate ... I do not have the whole story. I think because of all the contention over this subject, it would probably be best to give our own personal thoughts when experiencing this type of scenario, rather than projecting motivations onto others we have observed. Our heads might entertain each other well. [:D] Someone else was just telling me about how other people's circumstances can affect their behavior. It was a good reminder as is yours. I'm still not 100% in agreement with you (but very close), and I've got some new food for thought. Thank you!

Psalms274 -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 10:19:30 PM)
quote: Our heads might entertain each other well. [:)] (mine sometimes looks like this > [sm=smile-l.gif])

shemaromans -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 10:23:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Psalms274 quote: Our heads might entertain each other well. [:)] (mine sometimes looks like this > [sm=smile-l.gif]) LOL! I've named a new land after my brain. It's easy to get lost in it. :) That's what I could tell a friend if I discover that I'm interested in him. "I'm lost in Shemaland, but if you pull get me out of it, I'll date you." [:D]

spade -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 10:28:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker On the contrary, I have had too many friends that are male, and in most of those cases, they became interested in me, or were originally interested in me so they did the "friends first" approach. I, on the other hand, had no interest in them, and when they expressed an interest, it made me run away in the other direction. I felt that the interest was not really about being friends from the start and I felt somewhat deceived. Why would you feel deceived just because someone developed feelings for you after becoming friends? Do you agree that people can develop feelings for their friends? If so, why do the presence of those feelings mean there was deceit involved earlier?

Prairiehiker -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 10:58:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spade quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker On the contrary, I have had too many friends that are male, and in most of those cases, they became interested in me, or were originally interested in me so they did the "friends first" approach. I, on the other hand, had no interest in them, and when they expressed an interest, it made me run away in the other direction. I felt that the interest was not really about being friends from the start and I felt somewhat deceived. Why would you feel deceived just because someone developed feelings for you after becoming friends? Do you agree that people can develop feelings for their friends? If so, why do the presence of those feelings mean there was deceit involved earlier? I say this because I've been told that men will not hang around a certain woman, do things for her, take interest in everything she's interested in unless he wants something more than friendship. I'm not sure how true that is, but base on experience, there seems to be a grain of truth in it. I'm not talking about friends who you see in church, or you hang out in groups with. I'm talking about friends that I went hiking with, or gone out to the movies or dinner with. These were friends that I spent countless hours doing things with and spilling my secrets to. I'll try posting it in the men's forum and see what kind of answer I get.

spade -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 11:03:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker I'm not talking about friends who you see in church, or you hang out in groups with. I'm talking about friends that I went hiking with, or gone out to the movies or dinner with. These were friends that I spent countless hours doing things with and spilling my secrets to. You go to dinner and a movie alone with men who you don't want to date? That seems like a sure-fire way to lead someone on, regardless of what you say about wanting to just be friends.

Prairiehiker -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 11:16:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spade quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker I'm not talking about friends who you see in church, or you hang out in groups with. I'm talking about friends that I went hiking with, or gone out to the movies or dinner with. These were friends that I spent countless hours doing things with and spilling my secrets to. You go to dinner and a movie alone with men who you don't want to date? That seems like a sure-fire way to lead someone on, regardless of what you say about wanting to just be friends. Why would it be leading them on when we're not dating? Leading someone on is when they've expressed an interest in dating, and I keep doing these things with them. But if we're just friends, what's wrong with going out for a bite to eat after a long hike? Or checking out a movie? Don't friends do that?

Dakotasunbeam -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 11:17:18 PM)
I definately think it is possible for people to develop feelings after knowing someone a while. At such a point, if the other person is truly oblivious you can broach the subject. But I'd suggest broaching it if you've hand some occasions where the interaction seemed a bit more relationshippy than friendshippy. You know when something might be teetering into romance. Generally, I think if a guy is interested he will let it be known after a while. I'm sure there are people who are have been friends first and married and those who dated and married. However, many times men who are interested in a woman PURSUE. We women make an aweful lot of talk about wanting a guy to pursue, and generally men do. If a guy is not pursuing you and is content to be your friend, there is some indication that you are not within his marriageable/dateable pool. Guys who friend-first to get the inside track intentionally may often be disapointed, because women often take the cue of a PURSUER vs PURSUED. If he is not in pursuit, there is something communicated to her. That does not mean, EVERY woman will scratch a guy off of her slate because he takes the friend route. Generally, I think if you "want more." you should let him know in a tactful and polite way. Life cannot be redone, and every new thing introduced alters us all just a little bit. So it is only natural that bringing up your new found feelings will "alter" the friendship. That does not mean it is destroyed. It can be resumed, but in an altered state. Learning to cope with these relational changes will help you to keep strong relationships in the future.

spade -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 11:18:59 PM)
My own rabbit-chasing notwithstanding, I really do want to use this thread to talk about how people can move from being friends to dating successfully. How does it happen?

Tinkerbell_ -> RE: When he's a friend, but you want more (5/22/2008 11:19:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: spade quote: ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker I'm not talking about friends who you see in church, or you hang out in groups with. I'm talking about friends that I went hiking with, or gone out to the movies or dinner with. These were friends that I spent countless hours doing things with and spilling my secrets to. You go to dinner and a movie alone with men who you don't want to date? That seems like a sure-fire way to lead someone on, regardless of what you say about wanting to just be friends. Yes...as a matter of fact, I do. In fact I have plans with my guy best friend for this weekend for a quiet evening watching movies, eating dinner and talking. gasp Sounds like a date to me...but guess what? It's not. I am fortunate to have the insight to discuss with my guy friends, "Are you interested in something more than a friendship with me?" if he says no, then we proceed. If he says yes, I take it VERY slowly. My best friend is not only not interested in dating me, but he's not interested in a relationship, period, until God tells him differently. But we also know the day will come when I meet my husband and he will take a place on the back burner, but never away because I pray he and my husband become good friends and when he marries, I hope to be friends with his wife. I'd hate to lose him, but I know our relationship will change...not end, just change.

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