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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 11:35:04 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
And Carter's double-digit inflation with single-digit military raises pleased you - not to mention 444 days of national shame?
The inflation was a consequence of Nixon's price controls.
Iran was a consequence of the overthrow of the country's democracy- a decision made by the Eisenhower administration. I respect Eisenhower, but you can't pin all of the blame on Carter for this.
Sure I can and I do. He was at the helm - the standard still being used.
In addition, Mr. Carter was selling Iran the most modern ships and aircraft we made - long before the start of the 444 days of shame, I was appalled that he would sell such armament to a potential foe in such an unstable region. All the signs were there for what happened but Carter, in typical Dem style, conducted business as usual in foreign matters. I don't expect Sen. Obama to do any better in foreign affairs.
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 12:32:57 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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don't we buy Iran's oil now?
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 2:28:19 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
don't we buy Iran's oil now?
I don't know. Do we?
If so, does that erase the 4 most miserable years of my adult life - in the military under Pres. Carter's "leadership"?
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 5:20:24 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2003
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
don't we buy Iran's oil now?
I don't know. Do we?
If so, does that erase the 4 most miserable years of my adult life - in the military under Pres. Carter's "leadership"?
Sounds like you hold a grudge bigger than Scott McClellan's.
Meanwhile, Carter's decisions on both inflation and energy helped produce the economic booms of the 1980s. Had he just sat there while inflation ran rampant- or tried to implement more price controls- Reagan would have been the same conservative "Hero" that Bush I was.
If it weren't for Carter, your car's fuel efficiency would be 85% of what it currently is today, and your natural gas and electric bills might be 15% and 10% higher, respectively.
So if you are a typical American, Carter added perhaps $100/month to your military pension just by virtue of the fact that he helped increase the efficiency of your home, your car, and your electric utility.
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 6/2/2008 5:38:20 PM >
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 5:29:26 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
don't we buy Iran's oil now?
I don't know. Do we?
If so, does that erase the 4 most miserable years of my adult life - in the military under Pres. Carter's "leadership"?
Sounds like you hold a grudge bigger than Scott McClellan's.
Meanwhile, Carter's decisions on both inflation and energy helped produce the economic booms of the 1980s. Had he just sat there while inflation ran rampant- or tried to implement more price controls- Reagan would have been the same conservative "Hero" that Bush I was.
Okay, Carter is responsible for the Reagan years. Okie Dokie, then Clinton is responsible for the past 8 years - or does that only work for Dems?
Grudge? No grudge, I just learned which party shared my personal values and had the firmer grip on reality. I didn't give parties a second thought until I listened to Reagan & Carter debate. When it was over, I didn't think either won, but I knew the Dems did not have my best interests at heart. I haven't voted Dem on the national level since.
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RE: John McCain - 6/2/2008 5:44:21 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2003
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Okay, Carter is responsible for the Reagan years. Okie Dokie, then Clinton is responsible for the past 8 years - or does that only work for Dems?
In some ways, Clinton is responsible for the past eight years. The Fed pursued a bit of an easy money policy while the dot-com boom was in full force, which was a mistake. Clinton should have corrected that by firing Greenspan.
I think he also ignored energy efficiency and energy security, although at the time, there didn't seem like much need to worry.
I guess my point is that many of the policies Carter put in place 30 years ago are helping us now. If it weren't for work on energy efficiency- and alternative energy (such as nuclear and wind) under Carter, we'd probably already be in a deep recession (as we would be importing roughly 25% more oil, which would cost our economy an extra 1.5% of our GDP).
I think your claims about Carter might have been more valid in the Clinton years, but while oil is as expensive as it is, I think it gets harder to knock him. The suffering that we endured during the late '70s helped pay for the energy efficiency and lower inflation we enjoy today. It might have cost our economy perhaps $500 Billion back then, but it has likely already saved us over $1.5 Trillion over the past five years.
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 9:53:38 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 754
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
I don't think that made a whole lot of difference to the 53,000 or so dead military that resulted.
Hold your count: we are not done in Iraq yet . . .
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You honestly get riled over the WMD that weren't found?
I did not mention one thing about the imaginary WMDs in Iraq.
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They were FAR more likely to have been found in Iraq given their track record than the imaginary attack in the Gulf of Tonkin happening they way it was used to justify the esculation
They were both equally imaginary.
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You either are too young to remember
Envious are we?
quote:
BTW, how do you feel about the great liberal FDR's edict to segregate blacks in civil service facilities during his administration?
Why are you bringing up FDR? We were talking about LBJ, Carter, and Clinton, were we not?
Please stop thrashing about so desperately, Jimbo-- it's embarrassing.
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 10:19:40 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
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quote:
I don't know. Do we?
If so, does that erase the 4 most miserable years of my adult life - in the military under Pres. Carter's "leadership"?
nothing can take away 4 miserable years. Just like nothing can erase these last 8. But your willing to take it out on every DEM?
There are some good ones, like there are some good repubs. Look for them.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 11:47:42 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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And it took nearly twenty years for the overthrow? That's kinda hard to believe. We had Kennedy/Johnson, Johnson, Nixon, Nixon/Ford and a few Carter years in between.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Iran was a consequence of the overthrow of the country's democracy- a decision made by the Eisenhower administration. I respect Eisenhower, but you can't pin all of the blame on Carter for this.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 12:05:45 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: online
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quote:
And it took nearly twenty years for the overthrow? That's kinda hard to believe. We had Kennedy/Johnson, Johnson, Nixon, Nixon/Ford and a few Carter years in between.
China's been communist since 1949 and their government hasn't been overthrown yet. The Iranian democracy was incompetent, inept and corrupt. Just like the democracy of South Vietnam after the Geneva conference.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 12:14:37 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6364
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
Envious are we?
Envious would indicate you have something I consider worth having. Not the case. Condescending might be a better word. Or contemptuous. Or simply unimpressed with secondhand blather.
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 12:43:22 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1300
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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You expect a thread started with I'm sorry, but he's a total moron. lol to evolve beyond ad hominems?
_____________________________
Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 2:51:10 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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I think I didn't make myself very clear. Try again. If the plans for the overthrow was begun during the Eisenhower administration (and the Shah's government was so incompetent, inept, corrupt) why did it take so long to be overthrown? It's not as if Iran was equal in power to China or the USSR.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
And it took nearly twenty years for the overthrow? That's kinda hard to believe. We had Kennedy/Johnson, Johnson, Nixon, Nixon/Ford and a few Carter years in between.
China's been communist since 1949 and their government hasn't been overthrown yet. The Iranian democracy was incompetent, inept and corrupt. Just like the democracy of South Vietnam after the Geneva conference.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 3:09:02 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Unfortunately, it seems like there are some in these forums that only want to nit-pick and cause discontent here. I know I've gotten overheated several times at some of the comments. There are a couple whom I won't get involved in discussions with and I avoid them. If I've offended any of the rest, I'm truly sorry.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
What saddens me, and I'll probably get flamed for this as I have seen other make this point only to get bashed, but what bothers me it the amount of personal attacks I see on this board.
It is one thing to debate, counter, disagree with someone's opinions but to take that to the level of personal attacks that I have seen is sorry. This is supposed to be a Christian forum and I would think better of the comments made.
I have sometime unintentionally offended some due to the passion I have about certain subjects but it was never a direct blatant attack of that person.
We all have our opinions and it's great to have a place to discuss them and debate them. But what's with the personal attacks? I just don't get it. 
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: John McCain - 6/3/2008 7:29:25 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 754
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Envious would indicate you have something I consider worth having.
Like youth?
quote:
Not the case.
Good, because I'm really not too young to remember.
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RE: John McCain - 6/4/2008 5:28:35 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 754
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
To reason and act like a junior high student isn't really a quality most adults aspire to.
Neither do I. Believe it or not, I was far more morose in junior high school.
quote:
Who knows, SNL might give you call for a cameo appearance one day.
I'm definitely not-funny enough to make the grade on that fine piece of entertainment.
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RE: John McCain - 6/4/2008 9:21:24 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2274
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inthysite
What saddens me, and I'll probably get flamed for this as I have seen other make this point only to get bashed, but what bothers me it the amount of personal attacks I see on this board.
We forget to keep our discussions on a "high level intellectually" 
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: John McCain - 6/4/2008 11:40:36 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 754
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
But you do seem to be a pretty good sport.
And you are actually quite patient dealing with curmudgeons like me.
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RE: John McCain - 6/5/2008 12:05:37 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
I think that both conservative and liberal policies are dangerous. In some cases, it seems that Republicans believe that the government- and the governments' authority- takes precedence over civil liberties and human rights. I think most Liberals still beleive what Locke wrote roughly 300 years ago- that government exists to defend natural human rights.
The scariest thing for me isn't the gun-toting conservative cults off in Montana. It's the folks down in Texas and Alabama who think it's OK for us to kill a few innocent people if it means stopping the bad guys. It's the folks who think its OK for the President to tap my phone, find out what trades I'm making at the NYSE, and see if he can front-run me. It's the folks who think people who refuse to let the police do a random search on their person- when they are just out walking on the street- are somehow anti-American or pro-Criminal.
Anyone that thinks Liberals care about civil rights are kidding themselves...
John
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