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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 9:08:19 AM
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RevMick
Posts: 12
Joined: 5/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Hey, I'm against watering down the gospel as much as you do, but when we Christians acts so offensive and judgemental when we're presenting the message of love and salvation of Jesus, then I think perhaps, there is something flawed with our presentation.
Jesus didn't say to the woman at the well, or the prostitute about to be stoned that they were worthless sinner. He showed compassion to them. Jesus showed that He wanted a relationship with them. And when you know that the God of this world wants to relate with you, then it has a transforming power that's greater than saying God is going to send you to hell if you don't follow Him. I mean, it's true that Jesus would send them to hell, but it's equally true that Jesus wants to have a relationship with them. If you're a non Christian, which one would make you want to seek God?
True Jesus was compassionate with those that have not heard the true message of the Gospel. However you may have forgotten that Jesus was the toughest critic of the Pharisees who were supposed to be the teachers of God's word.
_____________________________
"For God did not send His Son in the the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." John 3:17 HCSB
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 2:10:46 PM
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Godddy
Posts: 68
Joined: 5/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
have absolutely faith in my Lord that even if they dont believe in Him, He will not let them in hell for eternity it doesn't make sense.
Blasphemy.
quote:
Exactly, a good tree produces good fruits.
How does a fruit start out? Does it appear suddenly ripe and mature?
How many kinds of fruit are there? Lets make the comparison that we are, as christians, fruit salad. We have differeing fruits. Now is every salad the same with the exact same fruit, all of the fruit just perfect and pure?
No. To just say a christian will exhibit fruit, while true, is only part of the story. Some have mature fruit, some don't, some have a few mature frutis and some unripened ones, and some have mature fruits and some seeds yet unplanted.
Christains are not cookie cut outs of God. At salvation God does not wave His majic wand and all of us become perfect little Jesus robots.
Does that mean we have to wait until we have mature fruit to be saved?
NO.
quote:
When a person asks Christ in to their heart, there has to be a change
I agree 100%.........now........define the amount of change one exhibits after salvation to be the saving change?
The more and more I discuss this subject of how a christian HAS to act the more and more I see division and PRIDE of doctrine. Let me tell ya a story...
my first church villified the catholic church. Its a cult. Its the church from which the anit-christ will come and use in the end times to establish his one world religion. Ya wanna know what it really was??
It was a pastor who wanted us to worship his CHURCH over Jesus Christ to profit himself. I would severly caution those who are "fruit testers" to look to yourself first before you judge others. Your imperfections and unripened fruit in YOUR life before condeming others to hell becuase they are not what you think constitutes a christian.
When I stand before God, I know my walk will not be perfect. THAT is why I depend on the BLOOD of Christ, my faith and my unwillingness to deny Christ before men. If its about works man, we all be dead and going to hell...no matter how much a super christian you are.
I am also not dead. I will improve and repent and mayure my fruit through love and perseverence...to the end.
As a saved person, I ain't got no other choice.
My two cents.
I agree with your statement 100%. We are a work in process, and will be till we hit the gates of heaven. God Bless
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 3:49:32 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2784
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
Just want to specify that i truly believe that the only way to God is by Jesus but also that for God anything is possible and he can save anyone he wants. He knows the heart of his people.
Jesus said that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He said He is the Gate and it is narrow and few find it,
quote:
as for gal 5:19 i think that all humanity fits in there so nobody will be saved
The by your arguement, there is no one who can demonstrate a life marked by the fruits of the Spirit?
In terms of those who have never heard the Gospel
Rom 1:18 - 21 (ESV) 18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
20For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 4:15:20 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
Status: offline
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Go read Link Edited, TOS 15
i totally agree with that christian.
< Message edited by Kath -- 6/2/2008 4:08:52 PM >
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 4:24:05 PM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 324
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
Status: offline
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And I totally disagree...
_____________________________
"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 4:41:09 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1982
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
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I don't know where you found that site.... However, if you are looking for Truth, search no farther than The Bible. I don't know what bible you have, but I need to emphasize that I mean The Bible-the real one. Not some manufacture new age book filled with lies. If what you have been studying resembles that website, you have been seriously mislead.
Edited to add:
This is directed at post #80.
< Message edited by deliveredarling -- 5/28/2008 5:25:30 PM >
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 5:10:28 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: online
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Regarding the OP, I would have a few words to say. Scary, and lost. That girl is lost, and what she says is scary. How can you love Jesus and God and yet hold a view that the bible is not true. I don't get that. I understand why she thinks the way she does, because I was there. She does know of Jesus, but she does not know Jesus. I think that is evident. Whether or not the questions were a set up, or fair to her is not the point. I think the interviewer was trying to show us the mind of a young woman who claims to love God, but does not put Him first, or second, or third, or......(you get the picture)
Like I said, I was there. I knew Gods truth and I knew of Jesus for years before I came to His truth. We can all hope and pray this young woman will also have her eyes opened. It is hard to rationalize loving God, when you are ensnared in a life of sin that you enjoy. It is hard to put Him in His proper place, which is first, when we are blind to His truth.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 7:00:23 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2784
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
There is no such thing as “the wrong beliefs,” unless you think that being evil and hurting others is right. God is infinitely understanding and infinitely fair. He loves each and every one of His children
The link seems to be some sort of UU teaching. It is only those who believe in Jesus He gives the right to be called the "Children of God."
John 1:9 - 13 (ESV) 9The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world did not know him. 11He came to his own,£ and his own people£ did not receive him. 12But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/28/2008 10:10:29 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 608
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
Sorry i'm sarcastic. Forgive me God but i cannot believe in a God that will let suffer most of its creation in hell. I believe You are the God of love, infinite love and that you'll find a way that we dont know, to save almost all of us. I have true faith in this.
Then you dont believe in the one true God of the bible.And the web site you linked that states no one will be punished is nothing but a doctrine of demons, satan can disguise himself as an angel of light, not just in appearance but theologically as well.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 6:00:51 AM
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BibleL7
Posts: 493
Joined: 2/1/2008
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For those who checked out the link Lufia posted you might note that this is the new Catholic church the same one that used to sell forgiveness. You see they believe the Pope determines truth not the Bible and actually their Bible mostly agrees with ours in particular the NT seeing it has the same 27 books. But that is another thread. Point of the matter is the person that made the web site even denied his pastors teaching. So Lufia if this person denies the teaching of Christ, the Bible and his pastor I don't understand how it could be believed. Christ and the Bible teach us that He is love yet He is also Just. Love without Justice is not love. And as for God sending people to hell for rejecting Christ not correct. See the True teaching is that all humans are headed for hell none are good. Only those born again will enter kingdom of God.
God, the word in Hebrew Scriptures means Judges. God is Sovereign. He created us therefore He can decide how we are to have a relationship with Him. We are to worship and believe Him and His word. If you do not want a relationship with Him would it be love to force you to for eternity?
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 6:09:16 AM
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BibleL7
Posts: 493
Joined: 2/1/2008
Status: offline
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For those who checked out the link Lufia posted you might note that this is the new Catholic church the same one that used to sell forgiveness. You see they believe the Pope determines truth not the Bible and actually their Bible mostly agrees with ours in particular the NT seeing it has the same 27 books. But that is another thread. Point of the matter is the person that made the web site even denied his pastors teaching. So Lufia if this person denies the teaching of Christ, the Bible and his pastor I don't understand how it could be believed. Christ and the Bible teach us that He is love yet He is also Just. Love without Justice is not love. And as for God sending people to hell for rejecting Christ not correct. See the True teaching is that all humans are headed for hell none are good. Only those born again will enter kingdom of God.
God, the word in Hebrew Scriptures means Judges. God is Sovereign. He created us therefore He can decide how we are to have a relationship with Him. We are to worship and believe Him and His word. If you do not want a relationship with Him would it be love to force you to for eternity?
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 9:08:34 AM
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PromiseLander
Posts: 358
Joined: 1/14/2008
Status: offline
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I haven't kept up with the conversations going on in here, I just listened to that video... You know that automatic hacking sensation you get when you inhale a hair? That's the feeling I get... This is nothing more than evidence that we Christians are NOT doing our jobs! That isn't the "Modern Christianity" or "Modern Gospel." Friend that woman is LOST! We have GOT to evangelize the lost, and we CANT do it by sitting idle and let others do it.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 2:56:52 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
Status: offline
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You haven't read it right, the web site i refer don't say at all that nobody will go unpunished. I think that you only want to tell me that i'm wrong in my faith. You read it with negative mind before you even started.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 3:07:19 PM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 324
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
Status: offline
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I checked out the web-site.
I read it right.
It's unscripural babble.
Rubbish.
_____________________________
"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 4:29:02 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
Status: offline
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atheist top 10, point number 4
Hum what do you think about it?
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 4:43:33 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2784
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
Do not ever tell someone that they are wrong. Emphasize the positive. Tell them that you are their brother, because there is only One God, and Christians and Muslims and Hindus and everyone are His children
NOT
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 4:47:31 PM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 324
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: Belfast, N. Ireland
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
atheist top 10, point number 4
Hum what do you think about it?
John 14:6
Hum what do you think about it?
_____________________________
"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 6:06:41 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: online
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We are told in 1 coritnhians 5 to judge the believers amongst us.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
as colliefan pointed out in post 63, we are told to respectfully rebuke and reprove a fellow believer, and to teach with complete patience.
Unfortunately when someone does show us some missed sin in our life, or does rebuke us, or approach us about something, we so easily get all touchy about it. We go on and on about how dare you judge me, only God can judge me. This is very true, but we should not consider another believers "judgment" as a bad thing, his/her judgment does not condemn us to hell, and we should not tell anyone that. But that judgment or whatever you want to call it, should be gratefully appreciated as it points out something that we are doing that we may have missed. I say anything that can help me come closer to Jesus, anything someone sees me do, bring it on, tell me please.
But I agree with prairiehiker, that we need to watch how we do it. For believers and non believers alike, we need to do it in love, respect and gentleness.
I used to know a girl who was on fire for the Lord, and a true Jesus freak, and she would just walk up to people and tell them they were going to burn in hell if they don't come to the Lord. While it was true, that is not our place to tell people. We need to let our faith be a light to the lost, and when given the chance, we need to spread the Gospel, or better said, the Good News.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 6:33:10 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
You haven't read it right, the web site i refer don't say at all that nobody will go unpunished. I think that you only want to tell me that i'm wrong in my faith. You read it with negative mind before you even started.
First let me welcome you Lufia. Sorry it is a few days late.
I have looked at that site you gave and I don't agree with what it has to say. God is fair, God is love, Gods mercy is limitless and infinite. But He is also Just and Righteous, and will judge us in the end. Only a few will gain entry into heaven. Why? Because only a few come to belief in His son, Jesus, who died on the cross for their sins.
It is not safe for us to believe that just because our loved ones are good people in our eyes that they will go to heaven even if they don't believe in Jesus. There is but one way. There is but one truth. There is but one life. For us to make up our own truths is not healthy, and in the end will only get us hurt.
in Romans 3 Paul tells us
9 Well then, should we conclude that we Jews are better than others? No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles,[c] are under the power of sin. 10 As the Scriptures say,
“No one is righteous—
not even one.
11 No one is truly wise;
no one is seeking God.
12 All have turned away;
all have become useless.
No one does good,
not a single one.”[d]
so how then are we saved. Paul tells us in Ephesians 2
7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.
So we are not saved by being good people, or by doing good things, or righteous things. What we may consider righteous, really isn't...Isaiah tells us in chapter 64
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
We can only be saved by the power of His magnificent grace, through our faith in Him, the one who died for us as He bore our sins. There is no other way.
Of course we want to believe that a loving merciful God will find a way for our loved ones to gain entry into heaven, but the bible doesn't tell us that is the case. I myself have family members who are not saved, and I pray for them and witness to them when I can, and I try to show them through my example that Jesus loves us. Yet in the end, I know the truth, that if they don't come to believe in Him, they will be condemned. It makes me sad to think about, but maybe that is why I still have breath. To reach them and expose them to Gods truth. Maybe you have that same purpose for your family. Don't be disillusioned into thinking they will still go to heaven when they don't believe. Take care and God bless, and good luck with reaching your loved ones with the truth and grace of God.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 6:57:05 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 608
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PromiseLander
I haven't kept up with the conversations going on in here, I just listened to that video... You know that automatic hacking sensation you get when you inhale a hair? That's the feeling I get... This is nothing more than evidence that we Christians are NOT doing our jobs! That isn't the "Modern Christianity" or "Modern Gospel." Friend that woman is LOST! We have GOT to evangelize the lost, and we CANT do it by sitting idle and let others do it.
Agree 100%
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 7:35:15 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 2544
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: The little house in the prairie
Status: offline
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Yes, we have to evangelise. But the question is how do we do it? The woman in the video clearly knew the gospel. I'm sure she's been evangelize. I'm sure she's heard the gospel of salvation. The question is why is she responding to it the way she did? Why was she not open to talking about her "faith" or belief". I don't think it's the lack of knowledge about God or faith or Christianity. Perhaps, no one really engaged her in her journey of faith. Perhaps going to church and listening to a sermon she's heard a few times isn't very effective. I know it's the role of the Holy Spirit to convict people, but perhaps our role of preaching and ditching are really producing this type of "believers.
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 7:45:14 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2337
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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A new believer has to be discipled. It is something that they have to want to do. Too many today want the fire insurance but don't want to live like a believer. They probably will be surprised when they face the Almighty God on judgment day.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 8:07:13 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1982
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
It is something that they have to want to do. Too many today want the fire insurance but don't want to live like a believer. They probably will be surprised when they face the Almighty God on judgment day.
This is the heart of it. That is why the feel good gospel is so appealing-no effort required. How many times do you see a fellow church goer fall into difficult times? How is that they react? Do they fall before the Lord or cut and run because they blame Him? Churches are full of wanna be believers. Believers that wanna believe the way the wanna believe, not what is laid out for them. Christ set the standard, it's what we are to follow. Not how we think we should follow. Not do only some of it, but ALL of it. There is a reason for this and He fairly warns us of the consequences of not following Him. It's so clear and so easy to understand. Our minds just want to do what feels the best without ever truly counting the cost.
The discipling is partly the churches responsibility and more of the disciples responsibility. There can't be any blame for a disciple gone bad. However, that is most frequently the case. But when the time comes, we will only answer for ourselves, our own choices and our own actions.
This young lady we have been discussing is a victim by choice. She has clearly been given the "knowledge" of our Lord and Savior. She has (presently, not that it can't change)decided to not follow Jesus with her whole heart. It's not a message she hasn't received, it's a decision she has made. She is double-minded. And we all know that a double-minded man will surely fall.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/29/2008 9:42:44 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3396
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
we are told to respectfully rebuke and reprove a fellow believer, and to teach with complete patience.
Did this video accomplish this christian act? It didn't seem the people involved in the video knew each other so I think its safe to assume this was the first time they had met.
It would seem under Matthew 18:15-20, that the interviewer skipped or ignored some directives contained in that scripture. He was essentially publicly rebuking this lady with intent to do so.
That...is neither loving or I would think effective. If that young lady was to read this thread or view that video...if she isn't a christian I doubt very much she would become one and if she did it would not be because of that interviewer...or some of us.
That...afterall is the end goal here...correct? Reconciliation? Or is being right more important than love?
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Another victim of the modern gospel - 5/30/2008 12:02:45 AM
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HisFish
Posts: 608
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: offline
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quote:
That...is neither loving or I would think effective. If that young lady was to read this thread or view that video...if she isn't a christian I doubt very much she would become one and if she did it would not be because of that interviewer...or some of us.
Your right, if she became a christian it would be despite the interviewer. If the interviewer had showered her with love, and she bacame a christian, it would still be despite the interviewer. We christians cannot make anyone else a christian, thats the spirits job. If she sees herself in this video and refuses Christ because of how she felt she was treated, that would just be an excuse for a decision she would have made regardless. We come to Christ because we are drawn to Him and we desire to repent of our corruption. None of us have the power to block God's will.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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