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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/4/2008 6:46:25 AM
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blue1914
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
think I would love to see SOMEONE who truly understood what it meant to examine ourselves.
I think I would love to find SOMEONE who understood what the term DOCTRINE meant-from it's original meaning to how it is currently perverted in our religious system today.
I think I would LOVE to find someone who understood what Jesus meant when He said "find out what this means, I desire mercy not sacrifice" (Hosea 6:6 and Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:7 and follow up in Roman 12:1).
I think I would LOVE to find a group of believers who understood that rules only help with regards to the SPIRIT within which they are written-if one does not understand the spirit of the rule, one cannot understand the rule itself. Likewise, if one attempts to make following a rule a law unto itself, they have "cleaned the outside of the cup" but left the inside as dirty as it started out. THAT'S the great paradox of our age-we are pushed more and more "rightousness" (which in so many cases is not rightousness at all) at the expense of true love for God.
These are true words indeed. Thank you, blue!
I still want to know what is meant by this. It seems like something is missing from it.
Matthew 22
The Parable of the Wedding Banquet
1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying:
2"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son.
3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'
5"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business.
6The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them.
7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8"Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come.
9Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' 10So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes.
12'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.
13"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
Paying Taxes to Caesar
15Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. "Teacher," they said, "we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are.
17Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?"
18But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, "You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
19Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius,
20and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?"
21"Caesar's," they replied.
Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
22When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.
Marriage at the Resurrection
23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.
24"Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother.
26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh.
27Finally, the woman died.
28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"
29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you,
32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
33When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.
The Greatest Commandment
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.
35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'
38This is the first and greatest commandment.
39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ
41While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42"What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?"
"The son of David," they replied.
43He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
44" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet." '
45If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?"
46No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.
I do so thank the Lord for His Word-it says it so much better than any of us ever could, don't you think!?
In the parables and stories in the passage above, who would be the servants who are mistreated? Who would be the guests who come in from all over (both good and bad)? Who would be the guest with no party clothing? What would be the symbolism behind what was said by Jesus (especially the statement about the called and the chosen)?
In the question about the taxes, we get a description of what is Caesar's-what would you suppose is God's?
If God is indeed the God of the living (as all who believe really know), then what do you think that should mean to us all?
Finally, the greatest commandment-why would you suppose that God in human flesh took the time to highlight this commandment first and then it's companion commandment?
All in all, the answers to these questions lie at the heart of examining ourselves. It's when we can get an answer to them that we are able to see what Jesus meant when He said that it's "easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven". These are not "doctrines" per se (I know that for a fact because when I tried to forward them as doctrine in another thread, I was told by many that I was off base  ).
One day we will come to realize (I know that I am a long way off!) that God is not a god of rules-if He were, He would have made us all to obey them without question. Instead, the nature He reveals to us (in His Word, in His creation, in His natural order of things that He has ordained) is that of a companion who blesses richly. If one yields to the natural order set WITHIN each of our own hearts, we have no choice but to acknowledge the greatness of God and bow down and worship. Sadly, more often than not we are instead so caught up in following rules (and making sure that everyone else follows them as well) that we fail to see the obvious that is right in front of our face-we fail to realize how much God loves us and how MUCH He just wants us to love Him back.
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/4/2008 7:03:01 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1725
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Thank you for clarifying. I don't see biblical commands as rules per say. I see them as a way to show (by action) our love for Him. It's not a blanket set of hard and fast rules from a task master, rather we desire to follow them because we know He loves us and we want to please our Father. It's not about having to perform for other people to think we are Christians. I could honestly care less whether or not someone thinks I live by "their" religion. I live by what the Bible says because I trust that God knows what is best for me. it sometimes makes life here on earth difficult, but then again, that's not the ultimate goal. Rules don't get me to Jesus, following these"rules" gets me closer in knowing Him. I do the things I do because of my relationship with Him. This world is not about me or my comfort. Everything with God is a choice. "Choose you this day, whom you will serve, God or mammon." Today I choose God. Today, I must examine my motives in everything I do. Mammon can slip in if I don't pay attention. My examination is not for or about others, it is for Him.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 12:44:53 AM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 597
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
It seems to me many Christians just want to go to church to feel better or be social or whatever else it is that church makes them feel better about themselves. Part of going to church should be....a self examination. Being convicted by the Holy Spirit.
I have seen so many that just go to church for what they can get. They are not there for the sermon, to feel good, or even to socialize. There are those who go and put on the church face and make all kinds of promises to the pastor that they'll start coming every week... because they need a bill paid, or need to tap into the food pantry... and whay? Because they spent all their money on drugs and sold their kids food stamps for more drugs. This is more common that one might think... but believe me, it happens all over. In my old community, there were people who did this going from church to church.
quote:
If you walk away from every sermon with a good feeling...I am afraid your sermons are that terrible...eartickling variety. Certainly sermons should edify but I think part of edification is...the truth. Sometimes to feel good about ourselves we must be tempered in the fire of truth.
Wow... I don't think I've heard anyone else say this except my husband! He always says, "If I don't walk away from a sermon being convicted, then I haven't learned anything. Everything remains status quo."
However, a convicting message can be preached, but if a person is in the congregation thinking to themselves, "oh yeah, Johnny So-and-so should really be listening to this one."... and not using the conviction for themselves... then what good does it do.
quote:
I am not advocating beating up the congregation with hell and brimstone. I am talking about sermons that have true substance...that make you think and examine yourselves to see if you are on God's path for your life.
A little brimstone isn't bad sometimes. People need to hear it once in awhile so they stop falling asleep!
Pastor Debi
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 2:54:29 AM
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BlessedbyGod
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DD, I enjoyed the thread. It made me look at a lot of things I need to work on. Thanks
_____________________________
For my house shall be called a house of prayer to all nations. Isaiah56:7_Trish
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 11:22:39 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Thank you for clarifying. I don't see biblical commands as rules per say. I see them as a way to show (by action) our love for Him. It's not a blanket set of hard and fast rules from a task master, rather we desire to follow them because we know He loves us and we want to please our Father. It's not about having to perform for other people to think we are Christians. I could honestly care less whether or not someone thinks I live by "their" religion. I live by what the Bible says because I trust that God knows what is best for me. it sometimes makes life here on earth difficult, but then again, that's not the ultimate goal. Rules don't get me to Jesus, following these"rules" gets me closer in knowing Him. I do the things I do because of my relationship with Him. This world is not about me or my comfort. Everything with God is a choice. "Choose you this day, whom you will serve, God or mammon." Today I choose God. Today, I must examine my motives in everything I do. Mammon can slip in if I don't pay attention. My examination is not for or about others, it is for Him.
I guess this is really what I question in a nutshell-what is it all about?
Here is what I mean. Listening to what I could stand of Mr. Washer's sermon (I apologize, but there is only so long I can physically bear to listen to messages such as Mr. Washer's) it was clear to me that his issue was with what he felt was differences of doctrine and "truth" among those who would claim the name of Jesus Christ. It appeared from what I heard that he was attempting to challenge all to examine their lives in light of scripture.
What does that mean? When asked what the most important scriptures were, Jesus came up with two-Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul. The second He said was like it, love your neighbor as your self. He said that EVERYTHING else was wrapped up in those two commands. Throughout His word, He tells us time and again in word and in deed that LOVE was the most paramount of all things.
Now, fast forward to the American Christian of today. Here's something that just happened to me on the bus (I've started taking it to save on gas). I noticed that a lady got on the bus and there were no seats near her for her to sit with her TWO small children (one in a stroller, one in a carry bag so she was trying to stand up on the bus (sitting next to a very able bodied man, by the way, but I digress). I was sitting at the back of the bus in what would be a VERY good seat for this lady so I offered to allow her to sit in the seat. Now I called FROM the back of the bus to this lady so everyone around me knew exactly what I was trying to do. Because she had two kids, I went down to the front to try to help her to the seat (a prime seat) in the back. Don't you know, before I could make it to the front of the bus to help her, a VERY able bodied lady TRAVELING ALONE plopped right into the seat I just left. The lady I helped was able to find a seat, but it was MUCH less optimal than the one I wanted to give up for her. When I told my wife the story, she told me that I needed to pray for salvation for the lady who snatched the seat. I thought about that-the sad thing to me is that looking at the lady, I'm pretty sure that she is probably very active in a church somewhere(and even if she wasn't, I have seen similar actions to that in the church very often). She might even sing in a choir somewhere-she had a matronly look about her, etc. etc. If that's true, she probably follows the rules of her church doctrine very well-but she doesn't appear to have enough presence of mind to realize that a young mother needs a seat on a crowded bus-real, practical LOVE. That's what it boils down to-are we evaluating ourselves in light of a TRUE measure-how much we love God and we love others-or are we evaluating ourselves in light of a set of rules devised to HELP us learn about God (that's what doctrine means, by the way, a body of ideas/rules to HELP), not to become our relationship with Him in total?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with learning and living the Bible-in fact there is EVERYTHING right about it. That said, Jesus NEVER let a set of rules get in the way of Him outrageously loving His Father and His children (Remember, half the time He was healing people, the officials-the keepers of 'doctrine' told the people that He doing so because of demons.) He always started from that foundation-love-and let it flow where it would. He never contradicted Himself, but He did in the eyes of those who tried to keep doctrines and rules.
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 12:27:38 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 539
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
What does that mean? When asked what the most important scriptures were, Jesus came up with two-Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul
Is that all there is to it, go deeper into that, what does is mean to love God that way?. I think on it like this; I love my wife more than i love my own life, i want to do nothing that would bring her shame, i want to honor her and cherish her and do nothing in her presence she finds objectionable. And so it is with the Lord, i want to avoid what He detests, and do that which brings Him glory and honor because He loves me, and i Him. Some find paul washer too harsh, well, the sloppy gospel in this country needs "harsh". The greatest commandment is love, but the greatest attribute of God is not love, but holiness. He is called holy holy holy, but nowhere in scripture is He called love love love, or anything other. Washer challenges us to make sure we are in the way, because "narrow is the gate, and few they be who find it", and there are more tares than wheat in our churches. Having said all of that, i dont disagree with you Bue1914, im just taking it farther.
< Message edited by HisFish -- 6/5/2008 12:49:05 PM >
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 12:32:24 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1725
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Blue, we are not in disagreement here. We are applying and saying it differently.
Your wife said to pray salvation for that woman. Obviously it would do that woman a tremendous amount of good if, in light of scripture, she examined her selfishness. See where I'm going with this? It's not about other's walks, but about our walk with Jesus. I certainly don't want to be that woman, so I check (examine) my motives. it's not at all about a set of rules, it's about my relationship with Him. If my relationship with Him is on track, my relationship with others is too, thus fulfilling the two greatest commandments.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 2:59:02 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5059
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I don't see biblical commands as rules per say. I see them as a way to show (by action) our love for Him. It's not a blanket set of hard and fast rules from a task master, rather we desire to follow them because we know He loves us and we want to please our Father.
So am I not reading correctly or are you saying that we do not need to do the commands (things spoken by Christ) that Jesus gave us?
I have a real hard time getting this attitude together with the Scripture in Lufe where Christ says;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Please help me understand why you think that when Christ says to do something; that is is an option of some kind.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 6:46:01 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 361
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
Washer challenges us to make sure we are in the way, because "narrow is the gate, and few they be who find it", and there are more tares than wheat in our churches. Having said all of that, i dont disagree with you Bue1914, im just taking it farther.
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Blue, we are not in disagreement here. We are applying and saying it differently.
I agree with you both that indeed, we are not in disagreement at all I really enjoy watching the zeal the Lord has put in both of you to understand fully what He desires to see from us all.
I guess I am referencing much more the spirit of the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians when Paul came to them-because I see this TOO often in the church today. That spirit is this-we "dive" into the deeper things of God. We look to "hear" from Him, we look for spiritual gifts, etc. etc. and we haven't mastered the BASICS of loving Him. THAT'S what troubles me most. Someone will come into a church and get an earful of "doctrines" and rules and run out to start living them-say, oh, no beer, no cigarettes, no saying out late past 9:00, etc. and someone in their church will tell them that following these rules is the Christian thing to do-it is doctrinally sound. They will pull out a Bible and show them (through their method of interpretation) where these rules are backed up in scripture-and in some cases, they may even be right. So the new Christian (or in the most tragic cases, even the OLD Christian) will run out and follow these rules and throw enough Bible on them to be dangerous and feel that they are serving the Lord. In a manner of speaking, they are-but they are MISSING the point. A true heart of love to God will probably have them EXCEEDING the limits of the most stringent rule ever set, but they never have a chance to know that because they are so focused in understanding the rules.
I don't know that I heard (and I went back and forced myself to listen to it all the way through) Mr. Washer expound on how a true love for God will breed a natural reaction of righteousness, instead I heard it the other way around-that "righteousness" is the path to God-and isn't that a little backwards based upon what Jesus told us? Is it a valid message-the exhortation (seek greater righteousness) in it was great, but at the root of it all, how DID Jesus tell us to approach Him? That's all I'm saying.
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 6:54:22 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3576
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
Jesus came up with two-Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul. The second He said was like it, love your neighbor as your self. He said that EVERYTHING else was wrapped up in those two commands.
My take on this is, if you do love God and love others, you will not break any of the Laws. Its not in place of the Law, its another way to define the Law, or to show what the Law really was supposed to be. A definition of how to live, not set in stone rules.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 7:28:10 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 539
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
A true heart of love to God will probably have them EXCEEDING the limits of the most stringent rule ever set, but they never have a chance to know that because they are so focused in understanding the rules.
Good point blue1914.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 7:29:29 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 539
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
Jesus came up with two-Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul. The second He said was like it, love your neighbor as your self. He said that EVERYTHING else was wrapped up in those two commands.
My take on this is, if you do love God and love others, you will not break any of the Laws. Its not in place of the Law, its another way to define the Law, or to show what the Law really was supposed to be. A definition of how to live, not set in stone rules.
Another good point.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 8:01:38 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1725
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I don't see biblical commands as rules per say. I see them as a way to show (by action) our love for Him. It's not a blanket set of hard and fast rules from a task master, rather we desire to follow them because we know He loves us and we want to please our Father.
So am I not reading correctly or are you saying that we do not need to do the commands (things spoken by Christ) that Jesus gave us?
I have a real hard time getting this attitude together with the Scripture in Lufe where Christ says;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Please help me understand why you think that when Christ says to do something; that is is an option of some kind.
Thsnks
RC
I did not word that well RC. If we are Christians, we will follow these commands without complaint. However, He does leave us the option of not following them, of course we can then expect to hear:
Luk 13:27 and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'
Does that help clarify?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 8:06:38 PM
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HisCovenant
Posts: 4617
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
A true heart of love to God will probably have them EXCEEDING the limits of the most stringent rule ever set, but they never have a chance to know that because they are so focused in understanding the rules.
Good point blue1914.
I love this quote, too! Very well said.
_____________________________
-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/5/2008 8:06:45 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1725
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quote:
I guess I am referencing much more the spirit of the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians when Paul came to them-because I see this TOO often in the church today. That spirit is this-we "dive" into the deeper things of God. We look to "hear" from Him, we look for spiritual gifts, etc. etc. and we haven't mastered the BASICS of loving Him.
Is this what you are seeing here?
If it is, I certainly need to check my approach.....
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/6/2008 9:58:02 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5059
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
I did not word that well RC. If we are Christians, we will follow these commands without complaint. However, He does leave us the option of not following them, of course we can then expect to hear:
Luk 13:27 and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'
Does that help clarify?
I concur.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/6/2008 11:02:04 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 361
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
I guess I am referencing much more the spirit of the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians when Paul came to them-because I see this TOO often in the church today. That spirit is this-we "dive" into the deeper things of God. We look to "hear" from Him, we look for spiritual gifts, etc. etc. and we haven't mastered the BASICS of loving Him.
Is this what you are seeing here?
If it is, I certainly need to check my approach.....
That is really how I interpreted the video by Mr. Washer-not anything that was said by you, etc.
Mr. Washer is not unique by any means in that enterprise-if that was not his intention, my apologies, but I can point to many sermons in my life where indeed that WAS the intention-to "get us all together" on "doctrine", etc. etc. It's taken me a few years to heal from that belief about God (and I'm still in the healing process). How the Lord has healed me is by showing me just how love for Him works-that as I learn more about Him, I learn to love Him more deeply. The more deeply I love him, the less I want to disappoint Him, the more I want to please Him (Not because He will love me less if I don't, but because I love Him SO MUCH that to see Him disappointed or hurt with me HURTS me!)
It's a circle-to learn of Him, I must read His Word and fellowship with Him, as I fellowship with Him, I learn more of the attributes of Him, as I learn more of the attributes of Him, I assimilate more of them into my life, as I assimilate more of them into my life, I desire to know MORE of Him and the circle starts again (or in truth, really continues)! It just seems so often like we try to "short circuit" the process by trying to get people to the "assimilate the attributes of Him" step by rules and at least in my own life, all that made me was confused and angry.
He tells us "behold, I stand at the door and knock"-an indication that He is open and receptive to whatever we choose-but WE must choose it. The last thing the world He is doing is standing up in heaven with a cosmic fly-swatter waiting to rain down fire and brimstone if we "mess up", but to so many people, that's EXACTLY what He is because they have become caught up in the rules-because a rule has a definitive beginnning and an end, a positive and a negative consequence. We as humans really cannot fathom life otherwise-a rule that has beginning and an end but whose ending might be WITHHELD-man, that's too much! Mercy instead of sacrifice-not getting what we deserve-it's a little much for us to take in, so we resort instead to rules, where the Spirit of the Lord gives us FREEDOM-freedom to please God, freedom to honor Him, freedom to walk in His ways, freedom to KNOW HIM! THAT'S the big reward-knowing HIM and anything else (financial blessings, popularity, etc. etc.) are just the icing on the cake things (really VERY secondary).
In short, that's why I would love to see more of an emphasis on what it means to love God instead of what it means to follow rules-truly loving God leads to following the rules, but the path you take to get there is SO much different than starting from the "rules" inward!
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/6/2008 1:03:35 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1725
Status: offline
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Blue, I agree with all that you have said in the above post. What came to mind reading it is this: Paul Washer seems to me to be going to the other end of the spectrum. Where we have heard all this mushy, gushy, religion stuff, he is preaching the Truth, hard core, no fluff. As I have seen as well as others, this fluff stuff leads people straight to the pits of hell because they aren't hearing the full Truth. These "rules" as such do turn people off. I say that because, our human nature hates to be restricted. this nature resents being told we have to do something. Jesus says, we have to do certain things, like BELIEVE. When we do, these rules are no longer an obligation, they became second nature. Like you said, we want to do them because we love Him, not because we have to.
I can relate to Mr. Washer in the fire and brimstone preaching because it was here on these threads, that I first discovered so much error in beliefs. i was amazed that repentance was no longer being preached. that it has become unnecessary. The whole license to sin thing. i wanted people to know that they are not being taught the whole Truth! Only the feel good parts are being taught and preached out of fear that people will turn from Jesus. i hate to break this to people, but the truth is, that if they are going to reject Him, they will no matter what is preached.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/6/2008 6:06:16 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3576
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: online
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What rules do you live by?
How well do you follow the rules?
What are your rules based upon?
Please define what a legalist is to you.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/6/2008 6:44:58 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1725
Status: offline
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quote:
What rules do you live by?
How well do you follow the rules?
What are your rules based upon?
Please define what a legalist is to you.
1. The commands in the Bible.
2. Well enough that I practice what I preach. Perfect? Never in a million years. When I am wrong or have done something that is offensive, I admit it to God and whoever it was that I offended.
3. My Love for Christ and my desire to please Him.
4. A legalist is some one who follows a set of rules to gain entrance into heaven. A works based reasoning rather than a Love for Him. Works to gain favor, doing it because they have to rather than because they want to.
What was the point of these questions?
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/7/2008 8:03:26 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3576
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: online
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quote:
The commands in the Bible.
The ten commandments I presume. There are quite a few commands in the bible. From the Ten, to Mosaic law to baptism to....a lot more. The bible addresses every area of your life from health concerns to relationship concerns to integrity, honesty and being a good worker.
Its a bog book with every life lesson in it I think. To do 50% of them would make you a saint.
quote:
Well enough that I practice what I preach. Perfect? Never in a million years. When I am wrong or have done something that is offensive, I admit it to God and whoever it was that I offended.
Commendable. I would say in many ways this is truly the bottom line in our walks.
quote:
3. My Love for Christ and my desire to please Him.
Another bottom line I think. Without this deep love there cannot be obediance and a relationship without love for God with God tends to be legalistic.
quote:
A legalist is some one who follows a set of rules to gain entrance into heaven. A works based reasoning rather than a Love for Him. Works to gain favor, doing it because they have to rather than because they want to.
If you add a pride factor, I think this would define a legalist quite well.
quote:
What was the point of these questions?
Thank you for answering them though they were more generally directed. Questions are the first step to self examination. Without questions its hard to find out where we are...I think.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/21/2008 1:47:54 PM
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jbow
Posts: 701
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
Status: offline
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I think this post from last year lend's a lot to this discussion: CLICK HERE
Also, I think we easily translate "examine yourself" into "question your faith". Which would be wrong, IMO.
Julien
[Link edited by mod to make it usable by all portals]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 6/21/2008 3:42:00 PM >
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"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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