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BerianAardvark -> RE: Why did Jesus say...? (5/26/2008 2:02:09 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: visus
Jesus is part of what God is.
Being part of what God is, he has freewill to follow the the Fathers will, or not. That is why the devil tried to make him sin agianst the Father.
Also remember while Jesus was on earth he was a man and not God, beacuse he had given up being God.
Therefore like us he prayed that the Father's will be done.
The orthodox Christian view is that Jesus is BOTH God and man, and that neither His humanity nor His deity is in any way diminished, nor mixed/mingled in any way. Do I understand the exact way that this works? Nope, nor do I need to.
He is not part of God, because God is one, not divided. He surrendered His power and authority as God voluntarily placing it under that of the Father to demonstrate how we are to live our lives, surrendered to the will of God.
Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped or retained, But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross! (Philippians 2:6-8 Amplified Bible) The Amplified Bible attempts to show the nuances that a first century person would see and understand from the culture.
But only God Himself could provide a sacrifice, could endure God's wrath in our place, allowing the possibility of our Salvation. This is foreshadowed way back in Genesis: "Abraham said, "God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son." So the two of them walked on together." (Genesis 22:8 NASB )
If you are familiar with the context, Abraham was walking up mountain where God had commanded Abraham to sacrifice Isaac..the whole of Genesis 22:1-18 is a close mirror image of what was going on...but, of course in that case God stopped the sacrifice and provided an actual lamb because this is merely a picture, not the real thing.
But Isaac wasn't (as often portrayed) a young child...he carried the wood for the sacrifice on his back (like a cross), he was certainly strong enough to have overcome a man 100 years older than himself....but he allowed himself to be bound in submission to his father's will.
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son; it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED." He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type. (Hebrews 11:17-19 NASB)
By the way, the word one in God is one, in The Father and I are one through out scripture is not the one of singularity, but the one of unity. To understand the difference the same word for one is used when the phrase "the two will become one flesh" or "They were of one mind" occurs...that doesn't mean that they only had one brain between them, or one body...but rather that they would be so united in their thoughts and desires that there was no real difference between how they would react to a situation.
Now to respond to Hisjoy: [8|]
quote:
We know that Jesus is God. Why, then, did He say, "Not My will, but Yours"? How could the will of Jesus--Emmanuel, God with us--be different than that of God the Father?
According to scripture the plan of salvation existed before time began, Jesus Himself came willingly to fulfill His part of the plan. The very fact that Jesus, in the garden could ask that if there were any other way, that this cup should pass form His hand is a demonstration of the idea that Jesus and the Father being one....unity one not singularity one.
Did He look forward to the pain and humiliation that awaited Him in those rapidly approaching hours? Nope....
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2 NASB )
I have heard some people say that He said that as a way of showing that there was no way other than Himself to gain salvation....this is true, but it had been stated many times much more clearly.
Quite honestly I suspect that this one one final temptation, especially since Luke tells us:
When the devil had finished every temptation, he left Him until an opportune time. (Luke 4:13)
But there is never any other indication that Satan again tempted Him except, perhaps, here.
Jesus passed this test as well...even when faced with the horrors to come, He didn't rebel, didn't tell God that this was too much to ask. His response was "Not My will, but Thine be done.
By the way what do you think the "joy that was set before Him" in Hebrews 12:2 was? What was it that made all that humiliation and pain worthwhile?
Because He is referred to as the author and perfecter of faith, it can only be us...those who through faith (and even that being a gift from God) have been saved through His sacrifice.
Tim
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