RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner

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SovereignIsHe -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/8/2008 5:55:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana You are saying that environmental groups that donate to PP are pro-abortion. Yes... And there are so in regards to population control by they own admission... Ones you said were pro-life... John

Lizahana -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/8/2008 11:47:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana You are saying that environmental groups that donate to PP are pro-abortion. Yes... And there are so in regards to population control by they own admission... Ones you said were pro-life... John Hi John, The WWF says: "WWF does not give USAID population funds to non-US non-governmental organizations that support abortion, in accordance with the U.S. government's Mexico City Policy." http://worldwildlife.org/what/whowehelp/community/item7044.html#3 Therefore, WWF does not support abortion. The WWF, NWF, Audobon society are NOT on the list of PP donors, see for yourself: http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm . This list is from the 2007 PP list of donors. Since you are claiming that anyone that donates to Planned Parenthood, is pro-abortion, please answer my question: so, you do not support ANY of the corporations on this list?: http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm Where do you buy gas then? Do you go to McDonalds? Do you buy cereal? Do you drink Coca-Cola? Do you have a credit card - if so, who is it from? Do you buy food that is made by General Mills, Kraft foods? Have you stayed at, do you stay at Carlson Companies, Marriot hotels. ALL of the aforementioned, and more, donate to PP. You are saying that anyone that donates to PP are pro-abortion. If you buy anything from the companies on http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm - they also support PP - so you are supporting a company that donates to PP, if you purchase anything from the companies on this list: http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm And for that matter, if your children are in Girl Scouts, if you contribute to March of Dimes, American Cancer Society, Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, American Diabetes Association, and the Young Womens Christian Association; if you purchase things off Ebay, you are supporting organizations that support PP: http://www.fightpp.org/. If you do not answer these questions, I'll assume you have none. Thanks, Peace and God bless, PS See you tomorrow - my system keeps crashing from the power outages here, due the storms rolling thru the midwest. I have to look at a stack error...

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 12:08:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana The WWF says: "WWF does not give USAID population funds to non-US non-governmental organizations that support abortion, in accordance with the U.S. government's Mexico City Policy." http://worldwildlife.org/what/whowehelp/community/item7044.html#3 That is only regarding those funds... quote: Therefore, WWF does not support abortion. Yes they do.... And you said they were pro-life, which they are not, just like most of the people you attended class with... From the WWF website... What is WWF's strategic advantage in working on family planning? WWF is a multinational conservation organization, protecting nature in 100 countries. At the local level, our unique way of working offers several advantages that benefit both people and nature: WWF brings family planning and basic health services to some of the most remote, underserved, insecure and traditional communities in the world. We help to fill gaps in health sector coverage, including unmet needs for family planning in some of the poorest rural communities, to benefit communities and slow the pressure of population growth on biodiversity. As well as family planning, WWF typically works with communities on a range of activities such as basic health, livelihoods and more sustainable management of the community's natural resources and biodiversity. Healthier communities with smaller, well-spaced families are better stewards of nature and are more economically secure because they have sustainable livelihoods. Communities are generally more motivated to collaborate on conservation issues when they learn that WWF considers their immediate and long-term well-being to be part of its mission. Linked environment-population-health messages are more meaningful for many decision-makers than single issue advocacy and this can help influence policy and donor funding. As a respected global conservation organization, WWF is able to dramatically expand the target audience for messages about family planning - moving beyond the traditional audience reached by the health sector. Only someone living in a cave doesn't know what family planning entails... quote: The WWF, NWF, Audobon society are NOT on the list of PP donors, see for yourself: The Audubon Society supports PP... They write... http://magazine.audubon.org/resolutions.html Think Small To lighten the load on the earth, we need to lower the birth rate and reduce consumption. Here are some ways to change your own life-and to get your government to change, too. Push condoms. Currently, some 350 million couples worldwide have no access to family-planning programs. Urge your congressmembers to fund international education and family-planning programs. Support organizations such as the National Audubon Society's Population and Habitat Campaign (800-741-9658; www.earthnet.net/~popnet) and the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (800-669-0156; www.plannedparenthood.org). quote: Since you are claiming that anyone that donates to Planned Parenthood, is pro-abortion, please answer my question: so, you do not support ANY of the corporations on this list?: http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm Where do you buy gas then? Local convience store... quote: Do you go to McDonalds? No and anyone that cares about their health shouldn't... quote: Do you buy cereal? I like French Toast... quote: Do you drink Coca-Cola? I believe I have had a Coke... OMG.... quote: Do you have a credit card - if so, who is it from? Local Credit Union... quote: And for that matter, if your children are in Girl Scouts, if you contribute to March of Dimes, American Cancer Society, Susan G. Komen Breast Cancer Foundation, American Diabetes Association, and the Young Womens Christian Association; if you purchase things off Ebay, you are supporting organizations that support PP: http://www.fightpp.org/. Nope... John

Lizahana -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 8:00:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe Yes they do.... And you said they were pro-life, which they are not, just like most of the people you attended class with... From the WWF website... What is WWF's strategic advantage in working on family planning? WWF is a multinational conservation organization, protecting nature in 100 countries. At the local level, our unique way of working offers several advantages that benefit both people and nature: WWF brings family planning and basic health services to some of the most remote, underserved, insecure and traditional communities in the world. We help to fill gaps in health sector coverage, including unmet needs for family planning in some of the poorest rural communities, to benefit communities and slow the pressure of population growth on biodiversity. As well as family planning, WWF typically works with communities on a range of activities such as basic health, livelihoods and more sustainable management of the community's natural resources and biodiversity. Healthier communities with smaller, well-spaced families are better stewards of nature and are more economically secure because they have sustainable livelihoods. Communities are generally more motivated to collaborate on conservation issues when they learn that WWF considers their immediate and long-term well-being to be part of its mission. Linked environment-population-health messages are more meaningful for many decision-makers than single issue advocacy and this can help influence policy and donor funding. As a respected global conservation organization, WWF is able to dramatically expand the target audience for messages about family planning - moving beyond the traditional audience reached by the health sector. Only someone living in a cave doesn't know what family planning entails... John, When I looked and saw that the WWF, NWF do not donate to PP, I wrongly assumed that they are pro-life. You do not address this fact, John, that the WWF, NWF do not donate to PP; they are not on any boycott lists and they do not have stance on abortion; therefore you cannot conclude they are pro-abortion. In any event, just because you are pro- using a condom, doesn't mean that you are pro-abortion - that is a huge stretch and you know it. The quotes you gave say that the WWF has no stance on abortion. The last time I checked the dictionaries, here is how they defined pro-choice: pro·abor·tion Pronunciation: \ˌprô-ə-ˈbȯr-shən\ Function: adjective Date: 1972 : favoring the legalization of abortion pro-choice Pronunciation: ()pr-chis Function: adjective : favoring the legalization of abortion http://mw4.m-w.com/dictionary/proabortion The WWF, NWF do not have stances on abortion; they do not donate to PP; they are not on right to life boycott lists. Therefore, one cannot say they are pro-abortion. quote: The WWF, NWF and Audobon are NOT on the list of PP donors, see for yourself: quote: The Audubon Society supports PP... They write... http://magazine.audubon.org/resolutions.html Think Small To lighten the load on the earth, we need to lower the birth rate and reduce consumption. Here are some ways to change your own life-and to get your government to change, too. Push condoms. Currently, some 350 million couples worldwide have no access to family-planning programs. Urge your congressmembers to fund international education and family-planning programs. Support organizations such as the National Audubon Society's Population and Habitat Campaign (800-741-9658; www.earthnet.net/~popnet) and the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (800-669-0156; www.plannedparenthood.org). The WWF, NWF are NOT on the list of PP donors, see for yourself: http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm I see you answered some of the questions, but not these: Do you buy any products from the organizations that these links provide - lists that these organizations say donate to PP: http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm http://www.fightpp.org/ http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppcw/files/ColumbiaWillamette/Matching_gift_companies.pdf And you neglected to answer if you buy products made by Kraft, General Mills - both of whom are on the aforementioned lists - do you buy products from Kraft or General Mills? I assume you know what they make. Peace and God bless,

Lizahana -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 8:06:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rlj Liz- you are definately in my prayers. : ) Thanks, rlj - you are very kind. We'll get there - either having kids biologically or thru adoption. I can't wait, either way ;) God will let us know which way is best for us. Peace and God bless,

its_GO_time -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 12:30:21 PM)
quote: Ya'll can keep this mess here in America. Keep you SUV"s when there is no gas to buy. Keep your AC"s when there is no power for them. And the food? It's going now. Unless they've suceeded from the Union, while I was asleep; Minnesota, is in America. Just thought I'd let you know. Also, it's in the 90's today, and we have one bedroom AC running for one room of our house. We own 3 autos, none of them those dreaded SUV's, and, if I sold all three of them I still couldn't afford those $4000 shoes, you secretly admire[:D]. And I think we're having Hamburger Helper for dinner tonight... wouldn't Barack be proud? U.S.A! U.S.A! Ben Franklin said that those who will trade their freedoms for saftey, (or to curry favor from other nations, or to help prop up the "green" business for those like Al Gore, GE, etc., waiting in the wings, licking their chops), will someday find they are neither free, or safe. "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation." --Thomas B. Reed

P31W -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 1:23:21 PM)
You're right....something is wrong.... it's called the oppressive governments of other nations that keep their citizens as poor as can be....so as to be totally dependent on the government for EVERYTHING.....it's a 'game of control'.... here in the U.S., people can work hard, and have the opportunity to do anything, and be very successful....regardless of what some people thing, "THE MAN" is not keeping us down.... you see a 35 year old guy waiting tables....what do you think? that this country is SO "messed up" that waiting tables is the only way for some people to provide for their families? Perhaps in SOME countries. our friend, Joe, IS that guy....and, guess what? after YEARS of waiting tables (and being EXTREMELY good at it...and, learning all he could about the business), a little over a year ago, he BOUGHT that restaurant. He is the OWNER now....and, just recently, he bought ANOTHER location of that restaurant (it's a part of a 38 restaurant chain)....from a mere waiter at a restaurant, to OWNING two restaurants that are thriving..... go into MANY other countries and try to do that same thing....political and "social" forces will prevent those who are poor from doing that. It's the OTHER countries that are "the problem".....the U.S. economic system is "the answer".....we are the ones who are doing it "right".... Good post Kerns. God laid down strong property rights laws in scripture. God's ways are always the best ways even when the "world" wants to reject it.

P31W -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 1:29:19 PM)
quote: if I sold all three of them I still couldn't afford those $4000 shoes, you secretly admire I think you hit the nail on the head baby! The nail on the head!!![:D]

P31W -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 1:42:21 PM)
quote: Ok. How's this go. I have paid $0 in federal income tax since 2001. The last 4 years I average $3800 on my income tax return. This year it was closer to $5500 because of the rebate. Who is paying for it? _____________________________ -Roger Roger, I paid for "your tax check". I don't quality for the rebate. Not only did I help pay for the rebates but somebody had to pay for the prisons, military, police, state mental institutions, parks, schools, highways, street lights, public library, new fire station, political officials, office workers in our public buildings, construct and maintain public buildings and every thing else this country has to offer. Someone has to get up and go to work and work hard. Make more than they spend and invest it right back into the economy by creating something of value to the country and "world". Some of us MUST do this otherwise we would all die from starvation. If we stop working then who is going to pay for the "rebate checks"?

its_GO_time -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 9:49:56 PM)
I'm sure we'll have to submit our shopping lists, to our local komissarr, using form 1040-EAT, in the Obama administration, and let them determine, if it is "too much" and of course there will be weigh-ins, quarterly. As well as permission for thermostat changes (1040-HEAT), and allowances for truck, and SUV use (1040-GAS). The buearucrats will reply in 6-12 weeks. I can't wait.[8D]

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/9/2008 11:54:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana When I looked and saw that the WWF, NWF do not donate to PP, I wrongly assumed that they are pro-life. You do not address this fact, John, that the WWF, NWF do not donate to PP; they are not on any boycott lists and they do not have stance on abortion; therefore you cannot conclude they are pro-abortion. The quotes you gave say that the WWF has no stance on abortion. The last time I checked the dictionaries, here is how they defined pro-choice: The last time I checked you said they were pro-life, which they are not, and WWF, NWF all believe in population control via family planning and on planet earth that includes abortion... You can vote for whomever you choose but you can't change who is pro-abortion and the the MAJORITY of the enviormental movement is pro-abortion and of course ANTI God... quote: pro·abor·tion Pronunciation: \ˌprô-ə-ˈbȯr-shən\ Function: adjective Date: 1972 : favoring the legalization of abortion pro-choice Pronunciation: ()pr-chis Function: adjective : favoring the legalization of abortion http://mw4.m-w.com/dictionary/proabortion Either of the above support the cold blooded mass murder of unborn children... quote: The WWF, NWF do not have stances on abortion; they do not donate to PP; they are not on right to life boycott lists. Therefore, one cannot say they are pro-abortion. Yes I can... They are pro-abortion... quote: And you neglected to answer if you buy products made by Kraft, General Mills - both of whom are on the aforementioned lists - do you buy products from Kraft or General Mills? I assume you know what they make. Sorry, I got bored playing the rationalization game... John

Lizahana -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 12:04:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana When I looked and saw that the WWF, NWF do not donate to PP, I wrongly assumed that they are pro-life. You do not address this fact, John, that the WWF, NWF do not donate to PP; they are not on any boycott lists and they do not have stance on abortion; therefore you cannot conclude they are pro-abortion. The quotes you gave say that the WWF has no stance on abortion. The last time I checked the dictionaries, here is how they defined pro-choice: The last time I checked you said they were pro-life, which they are not, and WWF, NWF all believe in population control via family planning and on planet earth that includes abortion... You can vote for whomever you choose but you can't change who is pro-abortion and the the MAJORITY of the enviormental movement is pro-abortion and of course ANTI God... quote: pro·abor·tion Pronunciation: \ˌprô-ə-ˈbȯr-shən\ Function: adjective Date: 1972 : favoring the legalization of abortion pro-choice Pronunciation: ()pr-chis Function: adjective : favoring the legalization of abortion http://mw4.m-w.com/dictionary/proabortion Either of the above support the cold blooded mass murder of unborn children... quote: The WWF, NWF do not have stances on abortion; they do not donate to PP; they are not on right to life boycott lists. Therefore, one cannot say they are pro-abortion. Yes I can... They are pro-abortion... quote: And you neglected to answer if you buy products made by Kraft, General Mills - both of whom are on the aforementioned lists - do you buy products from Kraft or General Mills? I assume you know what they make. Sorry, I got bored playing the rationalization game... John Ie, when you are called, the only thing you're calling is out? The NWF, WWF do not donate to PP, they do not have a stance on abortion; therefore, by the aforementioned definitions of being pro-abortion, they are NOT, in fact, pro-abortion - it is quite clear. And you do not want to answer whether or not you support ANY of the organizations on the lists contained in the below-mentioned links (you know the ones that do NOT list the WWF, NWF) because, in your mind, supporting PP, in any way, makes you somehow pro-abortion? You know, giving money by way of buying services, products from AAA, Kraft foods, McDonald's, major credit card companies, gas companies, many others listed in the below-mentioned links... http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm http://www.fightpp.org/ http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppcw/files/ColumbiaWillamette/Matching_gift_companies.pdf And, yes, that's a question, not an assumption... Peace and God bless,

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 12:10:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Ie, when you are called, the only thing you're calling is out? Hardly... This is nothing but a smoke screen to cover your support for abortion... You got caught making things up and this is how you try and get out of it... quote: The NWF, WWF do not donate to PP, they do not have a stance on abortion; therefore, by the aforementioned definitions of being pro-abortion, they are NOT, in fact, pro-abortion - it is quite clear. The have a stance on population control... The NWF is linked from the PP website as I already posted and the WWF supports family planning and population control, which on the this planet includes abortion... John

Lizahana -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 12:16:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Ie, when you are called, the only thing you're calling is out? quote: Hardly... This is nothing but a smoke screen to cover your support for abortion... You got caught making things up and this is how you try and get out of it... John, why won't you answer the question if you buy services, goods listed on the links from any of the below-mentioned?: http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm http://www.fightpp.org/ http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppcw/files/ColumbiaWillamette/Matching_gift_companies.pdf quote: The NWF, WWF do not donate to PP, they do not have a stance on abortion; therefore, by the aforementioned definitions of being pro-abortion, they are NOT, in fact, pro-abortion - it is quite clear. quote: The have a stance on population control... The NWF is linked from the PP website as I already posted and the WWF supports family planning and population control, which on the this planet includes abortion... John The NWF, WWF are NOT on the aforementioned links - with those that donate to PP - yet MANY other COMMON companies (that you probably buy products, services, ARE on the list of donors that donate to PP); NWF, WWF do NOT take stances on abortion. It would be irresponsible for you to take their stance on abortion for them. And, as an environmentalist who has been trying to have a baby myself for quite long, I take this pretty personally. Peace and God bless,

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 12:40:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana The NWF, WWF are NOT on the aforementioned links - So, the aforementioned links are not the only and last word on the subject... Both groups believe in population control and family planning according to them and on this planet that includes abortion. quote: NWF, WWF do NOT take stances on abortion. It would be irresponsible for you to take their stance on abortion for them. That's not true... They both believe in family planning and population control... Once again... http://www.plannedparenthoodnj.org/links/index.php National Wildlife Federation's Population and Environment Program The National Wildlife Federation's Population and Environment Program works to achieve a sustainable balance among the world's population, environmental quality, wildlife and wildlife habitat, and our finite natural resources http://worldwildlife.org/what/whowehelp/community/item7044.html What is WWF's strategic advantage in working on family planning? WWF is a multinational conservation organization, protecting nature in 100 countries. At the local level, our unique way of working offers several advantages that benefit both people and nature: WWF brings family planning and basic health services to some of the most remote, underserved, insecure and traditional communities in the world. We help to fill gaps in health sector coverage, including unmet needs for family planning in some of the poorest rural communities, to benefit communities and slow the pressure of population growth on biodiversity. As well as family planning, WWF typically works with communities on a range of activities such as basic health, livelihoods and more sustainable management of the community's natural resources and biodiversity. Healthier communities with smaller, well-spaced families are better stewards of nature and are more economically secure because they have sustainable livelihoods. Communities are generally more motivated to collaborate on conservation issues when they learn that WWF considers their immediate and long-term well-being to be part of its mission. Linked environment-population-health messages are more meaningful for many decision-makers than single issue advocacy and this can help influence policy and donor funding. As a respected global conservation organization, WWF is able to dramatically expand the target audience for messages about family planning - moving beyond the traditional audience reached by the health sector. quote: And, as an environmentalist who has been trying to have a baby myself for quite long, I take this pretty personally. You created your own dilemmas... You support those who support abortion and you speak of wanting a child... Just like the dilemma in regards to your false claims of your environmental groups being pro-life... John

Lizahana -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 12:47:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana The NWF, WWF are NOT on the aforementioned links - So, the aforementioned links are not the only and last word on the subject... Both groups believe in population control and family planning according to them and on this planet that includes abortion. quote: NWF, WWF do NOT take stances on abortion. It would be irresponsible for you to take their stance on abortion for them. That's not true... They both believe in family planning and population control... Once again... http://www.plannedparenthoodnj.org/links/index.php National Wildlife Federation's Population and Environment Program The National Wildlife Federation's Population and Environment Program works to achieve a sustainable balance among the world's population, environmental quality, wildlife and wildlife habitat, and our finite natural resources http://worldwildlife.org/what/whowehelp/community/item7044.html What is WWF's strategic advantage in working on family planning? WWF is a multinational conservation organization, protecting nature in 100 countries. At the local level, our unique way of working offers several advantages that benefit both people and nature: WWF brings family planning and basic health services to some of the most remote, underserved, insecure and traditional communities in the world. We help to fill gaps in health sector coverage, including unmet needs for family planning in some of the poorest rural communities, to benefit communities and slow the pressure of population growth on biodiversity. As well as family planning, WWF typically works with communities on a range of activities such as basic health, livelihoods and more sustainable management of the community's natural resources and biodiversity. Healthier communities with smaller, well-spaced families are better stewards of nature and are more economically secure because they have sustainable livelihoods. Communities are generally more motivated to collaborate on conservation issues when they learn that WWF considers their immediate and long-term well-being to be part of its mission. Linked environment-population-health messages are more meaningful for many decision-makers than single issue advocacy and this can help influence policy and donor funding. As a respected global conservation organization, WWF is able to dramatically expand the target audience for messages about family planning - moving beyond the traditional audience reached by the health sector. quote: And, as an environmentalist who has been trying to have a baby myself for quite long, I take this pretty personally. You created your own dilemmas... You support those who support abortion and you speak of wanting a child... Just like the dilemma in regards to your false claims of your environmental groups being pro-life... John Well, John, you refuse to address that fact that NWF, WWF do NOT dontate to Planned Parenthood, and do NOT have stances on abortion, because, you don't care to - pretty easy to see. This is especially interesting since this would clearly not fit the defintions of being pro-choice, pro-abortion. And might I add: companies like Kraft, General Mills, AAA, BP, Chevron, Exxon Mobile, General Motors, Ford, Starbucks, Coca Cola, many others, who are on the below-mentioned lists as donating to Planned Parenthood - you have no qualms with?! Hmmmmm...now why would that be....seems pretty suspicious, hypocritical to me... Again, why will you not answer if you buy products from the companies listed below - those who donate to PP? http://www.cogforlife.org/ppsupporters.htm http://www.fightpp.org/ http://www.plannedparenthood.org/ppcw/files/ColumbiaWillamette/Matching_gift_companies.pdf I mean, I admit, I do! Why can't you answer? It's a simple, yes, no question... And, btw, a heartfelt thanks for your words: "You created your own dilemmas... You support those who support abortion and you speak of wanting a child"...John - how Christian of you! And here I thought you'd cheer on someone who'd want a baby. And, psssst, I don't support abortion on demand...just a hint, there, John ;) Peace and God bless, PS Have a good night...

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 1:02:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Well, John, you refuse to address that fact that NWF, WWF do NOT dontate to PP, Supporting Planned Parenthood isn't the only way to support abortion... And again you are making false claims since I did address that FACT that both environmental groups support family planning and population control which entails abortion... quote: and do NOT have stances on abortion, because, you don't care to - pretty easy to see. Yes they do... And since you first stated they were pro-life the one who has a credibility issue is you... You will say whatever to cover your tracks... quote: Especially since this would clearly not fit the defintions of being pro-choice, pro-abortion. Pro-choice is still pro cold blooded murder of unborn children... Regardless of what Mr. Webster says... quote: And might I add: companies like Kraft, General Mills, AAA, BP, Chevron, Exxon Mobile, who are on the below-mentioned lists as donating to PP - you have not qualms with?! Hmmmmm...now why would that be....seems pretty suspicious, hypocritical to me... Says the person who wants a child and supports abortion... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 1:08:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana And, btw, a heartfelt thanks for your words: "You created your own dilemmas... You support those who support abortion and you speak of wanting a child"...John - how Christian of you! And here I thought you'd cheer on someone who'd want a baby. And, psssst, I don't support abortion on demand...just a hint, there, John ;) Yes, it was, it's the truth... You support those who support abortion and you want a child... If that's no longer the case by all means let me know... You do support abortion on demand... If a person was raped you have no issue with the person demanding the death of the child... And for the record, you don't believe the rapist should be put to death... John

ta_mosquito -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 8:25:12 AM)
MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE SovereignIsHe and Lizahana - you've beat the subject of abortion to death in this thread. Please quit the personal baiting on both sides. SIH - please quit implying that Lizahana is a hypocrite. Lizahana - please quit implying that SIH is a hypocrite. Since you both cannot seem to move on, any further posts debating the WWF and NWF or other companies and their stances on abortion will be deleted as disruptive. Let's get this thread back on topic. Thank you! Tricia Forums Moderator Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.

tafkam -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 8:30:48 AM)
quote: "We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times… and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said. Since when do we have to ask other countries' permission or approval to conduct our lives the way we wish? Just another reason an Obama presidency should be a scary thought to America....

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 8:49:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tafkam quote: "We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times… and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said. Since when do we have to ask other countries' permission or approval to conduct our lives the way we wish? Just another reason an Obama presidency should be a scary thought to America.... YES, I do expect that other Countries are going to say OK!! "So when I heard Barack Obama say we're actually going to have to eat less, my internal red lights and sirens instantly fired up." Mine TOO!! [:@]

rlj -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/10/2008 12:16:12 PM)
quote: Since when do we have to ask other countries' permission or approval to conduct our lives the way we wish? Just another reason an Obama presidency should be a scary thought to America.... I wouldn't worry too much about either candidate except I don't believe that either of the two parties is capable of rallying 40 guys in the Senate to stop any real stupid legislation. Remember how Bob Dole singlehandedly rallied the Senate to derail the worst of Clintons liberal policies? A defeat so thorough in '94 that he turned him into a "new democrat". ; )

Pat-rebel_lady -> RE: Obama's thoughts on SUVs, AC, and dinner (6/12/2008 8:46:52 AM)
From the link: quote: An AFP report from the massive Oregon rally described the context this way: "Pitching his message to Oregon's environmentally-conscious voters, Obama called on the United States to 'lead by example' on global warming and develop new technologies at home which could be exported to developing countries." Seems the only thing he is leading by example on is showing how: How a Dictator of a dictatorship government will take away/remove from the middle-class and poor what they worked long and hard to acquire in order to make life just a little more hopeful and obey laws too. How a dictator removes all Hope in the future --- Yep, that's what he's good at.

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