RE: Why no solutions?

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JimboFletch -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 5:13:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: The bible is quite clear that the punishment for murder is death... Are we following the Law as written in the OT? Because if that's the case, then liars should not be there also. Which would cover just about everybody! Please show me where liars were to be executed under the OT Law. Please.

tracydolls -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 7:01:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: The bible is quite clear that the punishment for murder is death... Are we following the Law as written in the OT? Because if that's the case, then liars should not be there also. Which would cover just about everybody! Please show me where liars were to be executed under the OT Law. Please. My point was are we following the Law? Concerning picking who we vote for. If so then we should not pick anyone who has broken the LAW. Which would exclude us all!

tracydolls -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 7:17:18 PM)
quote: Executions are carried out according to the sentences imposed by judges and juries. sign..... but don't govenors sign off on them? Bush's signature is on over 150 of them in Texas. No Christians name should be on any of them. Not a Christian that believes in the sanctity of life. Doesnt pro-life mean YOU are for life? I consider myself Pro-life. I don't like the deaths by abortions or the deaths of the babies from starvation or sids, etc. I don't like the deaths of people in war on either side. I don't like the deaths of innocent people or criminals. I hope abortion ends. But why would it in this society?

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 9:14:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: The bible is quite clear that the punishment for murder is death... Are we following the Law as written in the OT? Because if that's the case, then liars should not be there also. Which would cover just about everybody! The bible said the thieves on the crosses with Christ were justly receiving their due reward(death)... Luke 23... John

blessedinnyc -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 9:35:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: The bible is quite clear that the punishment for murder is death... Are we following the Law as written in the OT? Because if that's the case, then liars should not be there also. Which would cover just about everybody! The bible said the thieves on the crosses with Christ were justly receiving their due reward(death)... Luke 23... John You'll note that, first off, this isn't the red-letter text. These were the words of a repentant human being, but one not necessarily speaking for the Holy Spirit. There's a lot of ways to interpret this. One way is to say that the wages of sin is death. Another is to say that this "justice" refers to the Roman justice system. The OT distinguished between sins against property and sins against people. You couldn't receive the death penalty for a sin against property, IIRC. Here's one precedent from the law in Exodus: quote: If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it or sells it, he must pay back five head of cattle for the ox and four sheep for the sheep. -Exodus 22:1 I do think it's a bit of a stretch to claim that God approves of the death penalty for petty theft. The Law of Moses generally followed the rule of "An eye for an eye" (except in cases of sins directly against God and sexual immorality), but even then, Jesus said that we're supposed to show mercy and grace in light of eye-for-an-eye (Matt 5:38). I consider the threat of the death penalty- and occasionally carrying it out- a necessary evil in the world we live in. However, I find it difficult as a Christian to advocate extending it beyond murder when I'm also called to love my enemies, love my neighbor as myself, and to have mercy on others. IMHO, supporting the death penalty for murder and opposing the death penalty under all circumstances are valid positions. I don't think it's wise to support the DP beyond that, but I can't come up with any straightforward clear-cut verses to prove this (any more than either side could on abortion.).

Lizahana -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 9:42:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: saved9201 quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: saved9201 I think the GOP realizes that as long as they continue to paint the democratic party as the party of baby murderers, No need to paint it, its that color already... quote: The GOP knows it can rely on some of the good people here at Crosswalk to help it's cause... I rest my case. -Julius They are the party of baby murderers and they where it aas a badge of honor... For the record I don't think the GOP is much better, but they as a group don't where the badge like those on the Left... If am I wrong about the Democratic Party and abortion by all means fix me... John Well, I'm a pro-life liberal - which you will probably laugh at. However, there continues to be a growing number of us. And, I may add, that there does exist pro-choice Republicans, though one would not know this by attending this site. And, I want to further qualify my position in saying that I am not registered to any party. The ONLY issue I agree with Republicans on is that of pro-life - of which I find them disappointing as well. So, this is why I am not registered with any party; but I keep praying for more pro-life Democrats...and there have been more. I keep praying for one that can make it to the presidential level... Supporting the pro-abortion party is support for abortion... John Interesting comment. Yet, what have the Republicans done to overturn RVW? For the last 3 decades they appointed the majority of the SCJ, and still RVW has not been overturned. In fact, the highly lauded in conservative circles, SCJ Kennedy, appointed by Reagan, had the deciding vote to overturn RVW in 1992 in Casey v Planned Parenthood, yet he did not. And then you have the Republicans - a party that champions itself with the pro-life movement, but yet has some members that score below than some Democrats on being pro-life from the nrlc.org rank itself. On top of this, they controlled both the legislative and executive branches of government from 2000-2006, yet did NOTHING via Congress to overturn RVW, when they could have - just look at what Ron Paul is trying to do right now. On top of this, you have Christians here that openly diss Ron Paul - who actually is trying to overturn RVW via the congress, not judicial arm - the latter an obvious disappointment. And, then there is the first lady who says that she does not believe RVW should be overturned - she is still highly lauded, but when a liberal says this they are verbally stoned on these forums. You want to talk about a party being a hypocrit? Look in the Republican party on this issue, and how they are 'untouchable' on the issue of abortion on these forums, when, in fact, they are 'touchable'... And there you have it... Have what? The Republican stance(or lack thereof) on abortion doesn't make it "ok" to support the party that without a doubt supports abortion. John Well, John, IMHO - it doesn't matter at all whom you vote for at a presidential level because, as I've stated in another thread: I don't think McCain would do any better - you know the person that scores a 66% from nrcl.org - lower than some Democrats; and the person that STILL has not promise he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on SCJ nominees. In fact, I really don't think it matters whom you vote for on a presidential level when it comes to abortion. Republicans, the supposed champions of the pro-life movement: 1) have members that are more pro-choice than some of the Democrats, 2) Republicans have appointed the majority of the SCJ in the last 3 decades and STILL RVW has not been overturned - in fact the highly lauded (by conservatives) SCJ was appointed by Reagan, had the deciding vote to overturn RVW in 92 in Casey v PP, and he did not; 3) Republicans had control of both the executive and legislative branches from 2000-2006 to do what Ron Paul is trying to do right now with HR 2597 (sanctity of life) and they did NOT do anything congressionally to return jurisdiction back to the states on the matter of sanctity of life; something that should be done by the reigning princes of the pro-life movement since going through the judicial arm is PLAINLY NOT working. Peace and God bless,

tracydolls -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 10:40:01 PM)
quote: The bible said the thieves on the crosses with Christ were justly receiving their due reward(death)... Luke 23... What verse says this? One of the thieves recieves a reward in Heaven doesnt he? And one doesnt. There are some people that have had abortions that will be in Heaven. Just like there are some that have not had one that will not make it. Come nowhere close.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 10:53:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc You'll note that, first off, this isn't the red-letter text. These were the words of a repentant human being, but one not necessarily speaking for the Holy Spirit. No... 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: There is NOTHING in the bible that speaks of red-letter text John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 10:54:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: The bible said the thieves on the crosses with Christ were justly receiving their due reward(death)... Luke 23... What verse says this? Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death. Numbers 35:16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. Numbers 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death. Luke 23:41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong. John

blessedinnyc -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 11:03:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc You'll note that, first off, this isn't the red-letter text. These were the words of a repentant human being, but one not necessarily speaking for the Holy Spirit. No... 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: There is NOTHING in the bible that speaks of red-letter text John Let's apply this interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16 to the following verses: quote: May its morning stars become dark; may it wait for daylight in vain and not see the first rays of dawn, 10 for it did not shut the doors of the womb on me to hide trouble from my eyes. 11 "Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12 Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13 For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest -Job 3:9-13 Ergo, life isn't worth living so the Holy Spirit is telling you you should kill yourself. quote: "There is no God." -Psalm 14:1. Ergo, God doesn't exist. quote: As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace." -Daniel 3:5-6 Ergo, God is commanding us to worship Nebuchadnezzar! Otherwise, we're going to be thrown in this firey furnace. Thus, this proof by contradiction shows that if you interpret 2 Tim. 3:16 this way, you're going to come to a lot of bad conclusions, and thus, this particular interpretation may be incorrect. The question we must ask ourselves whenever we see a Bible verse is whether Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or God is affirming something as correct. Jesus doesn't tell the criminal that he is correct that he's receiving his just reward. Neither does the Bible say he is correct. We are only going on the words of a man who isn't speaking for the Holy Spirit. So blindly applying 2 Timothy 3:16 to everything is kinda silly, no?

tracydolls -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 11:10:35 PM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: The bible said the thieves on the crosses with Christ were justly receiving their due reward(death)... Luke 23... What verse says this? Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. Exodus 21:12 He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death. Numbers 35:16 And if he smite him with an instrument of iron, so that he die, he is a murderer: the murderer shall surely be put to death. Numbers 35:31 Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death. Luke 23:41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong. You mean death? To die in the natural we are all going to do. The death I think you are referring to: Dies separated from Jesus, then I repost one of my other posts. Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. We should not support any of these. Exo 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. Exo 21:16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. Do we really go by the LAW? If so, then a WHOLE lot of people need to get stoned. And since I'm a sinner and Jesus said he who is without sin should cast the first stone, Me myself I gotta get way back in line, toooo far back, the person will be long dead from all the other stonethrowers and I pretty much don't have to worry about it.[;)]

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 11:35:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc Let's apply this interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16 to the following verses: Interpretation? It's what the verse says... quote: May its morning stars become dark; may it wait for daylight in vain and not see the first rays of dawn, 10 for it did not shut the doors of the womb on me to hide trouble from my eyes. 11 "Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? 12 Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? 13 For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest -Job 3:9-13 Ergo, life isn't worth living so the Holy Spirit is telling you you should kill yourself. Job was cursing the day he was born instead of God... Given what he going through it's understandable... You'd it see if you read it all and not a few verses, but of course that wouldn't work given you're trying to prove that some of the word of God is, well not the word of God...Unbelievable... quote: "There is no God." -Psalm 14:1. Ergo, God doesn't exist. Try again... That is not what the verses says... It says the FOOL says there is no God... Not only does the bible show your error, but simple grammar... Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. quote: As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up. Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace." -Daniel 3:5-6 Ergo, God is commanding us to worship Nebuchadnezzar! Otherwise, we're going to be thrown in this firey furnace. How is Nebuchadnezzar command turned into God's because All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: What verse says it's a command of God? What verse says some verses are not given by inspiration of God, NONE! quote: Thus, this proof by contradiction shows that if you interpret 2 Tim. 3:16 this way, you're going to come to a lot of bad conclusions, and thus, this particular interpretation may be incorrect. Hardly... You quoted parts of verses... Not to mention you seem to either deny or have no clue to the context... quote: The question we must ask ourselves whenever we see a Bible verse is whether Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or God is affirming something as correct. Jesus doesn't tell the criminal that he is correct that he's receiving his just reward. Neither does the Bible say he is correct. We are only going on the words of a man who isn't speaking for the Holy Spirit. So blindly applying 2 Timothy 3:16 to everything is kinda silly, no? The only silly things was this... "There is no God." -Psalm 14:1. Ergo, God doesn't exist. Unbelievable... John Psalms 14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

blessedinnyc -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/2/2008 11:42:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe Try again... That is not what the verses says... It says the FOOL says there is no God... Not only does the bible show your error, but simple grammar... So what's the difference between a fool saying in his heart and a criminal saying out loud? quote: Job was cursing the day he was born instead of God... Given what he going through it's understandable... You'd it see if you read it all and not a few verses, but of course that wouldn't work given you're trying to prove that some of the word of God is, well not the word of God...Unbelievable... Exactly. You're dying up there on a cross, and you're a little emaciated, so you utter some things that are a little extreme. After all, your name isn't Jesus. quote: How is Nebuchadnezzar command turned into God's because All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: What verse says it's a command of God? What verse says some verses are not given by inspiration of God, NONE! Thank you for helping to make my point that you can't take verses out of context and assume that you can interpret them correctly. The theif's only comment was that his conviction was a result of the Roman legal system while Jesus's wasn't. I have no idea how you think this pertains to the death penalty. Perhaps some better verses for you might come from Romans 13. quote: Hardly... You quoted parts of verses... Not to mention you seem to either deny or have no clue to the context... Hopefully you will now apply this same logic to the criminal. Has this criminal now become a legal ethics professor with the authority to speak on behalf of God by virtue of the fact that his quote wound up in the Bible (along with the quotes of Pharisees, false prophets, fools, angry and depressed men, prostitutes,and other criminals)? quote: The only silly things was this... "There is no God." -Psalm 14:1. Ergo, God doesn't exist. Unbelievable... What's unbelievable is that you don't know what a proof-by-contradiction is. I assume that you're right, and use your assumptions and apply basic logic to them to prove something that we know is wrong. The conclusion of this exercise is that 2 Timothy 3:16 doesn't give us license to take the Bible out of context or assign authority to a source that doesn't necessarily speak for God just because it's quoted by the Bible.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/3/2008 12:10:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc So what's the difference between a fool saying in his heart and a criminal saying out loud? What the criminal said is supported by scripture, yet the bible cleary refutes what a fools says in regards to there being no God... quote: Exactly. You're dying up there on a cross, and you're a little emaciated, so you utter some things that are a little extreme. . Again... What the criminal said is supported by scripture... quote: Thank you for helping to make my point that you can't take verses out of context and assume that you can interpret them correctly. The theif's only comment was that his conviction was a result of the Roman legal system while Jesus's wasn't. He said they justly getting their due reward... Your comment doesn't align with the what the thief said... He said he was justly dealt with and was recieving his due reward... quote: I have no idea how you think this pertains to the death penalty. Hmmm... They were being put to death for their actions by ordained civil authority... quote: Perhaps some better verses for you might come from Romans 13. Romans 13 does directly supports what the thief said... Given that the civil government is the "sword" and the minister of God for those who do evil... quote: What's unbelievable is that you don't know what a proof-by-contradiction is. I assume that you're right, and use your assumptions and apply basic logic to them to prove something that we know is wrong. You didn't prove anything... The only contradictions were yours... quote: The conclusion of this exercise is that 2 Timothy 3:16 doesn't give us license to take the Bible out of context or assign authority to a source that doesn't necessarily speak for God just because it's quoted by the Bible. Since the what the criminal said lines up with the word of God the only conclusion is that you are wrong... John

blessedinnyc -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/3/2008 12:25:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe What the criminal said is supported by scripture, yet the bible cleary refutes what a fools says in regards to there being no God... quote: Exactly. You're dying up there on a cross, and you're a little emaciated, so you utter some things that are a little extreme. . Again... What the criminal said is supported by scripture... quote: He said they justly getting their due reward... You comment doesn't align with the what the thief said... He said he was justly dealt with and was recieving his due reward... But we're more likely to interpret this in the context of Romans 6:23, not the verse in Leviticus 28:47 where we are instructed to crucify petty criminals. quote: Hmmm... They were being put to death for their actions by ordained civil authority... Hmmm, the last thing they were thinking about was legal ethics when they likely didn't have a means to get an education. quote: Romans 13 does directly supports what the thief said... Given that the civil government is the "sword" and the minister of God for those who do evil... But the thief isn't making a commentary on the fairness of the sentence. He is simply observing that compared to at least one other person, he's at least being treated justly. If I am convicted of stealing candy from the corner grocery store and am sentenced to death, I might find it terribly unfair, but in the context of the guy who was sentenced to death because one of his enemies accused him of spitting on the sidewalk, my sentence is at least "just". That doesn't make it right. quote: Since the what the criminal said lines up with the word of God the only conclusion is that you are wrong... What about Acts 16, where a woman practices divination one moment, proclaims Paul and Silas as messengers from God the next moment (through the powers of her divination), and then goes straight back to work. She doesn't speak with the authority of the holy spirit, even if part of what she says may be Biblical. So actually, your interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16 fails even with the caveat that you've inserted. I think the trick here is that God expects us to use logic while interpreting the scripture. Even if the theif is right in saying that Jesus was wrongly convicted, we shouldn't take his statements about himself as an ethical commentary on the Roman criminal justice system.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/3/2008 12:49:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc But we're more likely to interpret this in the context of Romans 6:23, not the verse in Leviticus 28:47 where we are instructed to crucify petty criminals. Other than yourself who said the men up there with Christ were petty criminals? quote: Hmmm, the last thing they were thinking about was legal ethics when they likely didn't have a means to get an education. Doesn't change the fact that what the man said isn't outside the context of the bible... quote: But the thief isn't making a commentary on the fairness of the sentence. He is simply observing that compared to at least one other person, he's at least being treated justly. Justly means more than that... quote: What about Acts 16, where a woman practices divination one moment, proclaims Paul and Silas as messengers from God the next moment (through the powers of her divination), and then goes straight back to work. She doesn't speak with the authority of the holy spirit, even if part of what she says may be Biblical. So actually, your interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16 fails even with the caveat that you've inserted. How does that compare to the words of the thief? I never said the thief was speaking with the authority of the holy spirit... quote: I think the trick here is that God expects us to use logic while interpreting the scripture. Even if the theif is right in saying that Jesus was wrongly convicted, we shouldn't take his statements about himself as an ethical commentary on the Roman criminal justice system. It wasn't an ethical commentary on the Roman criminal justice system it was statement of fact in regards to his case... John

wordsnpic -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/4/2008 10:27:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc But we're more likely to interpret this in the context of Romans 6:23, not the verse in Leviticus 28:47 where we are instructed to crucify petty criminals. Other than yourself who said the men up there with Christ were petty criminals? quote: Hmmm, the last thing they were thinking about was legal ethics when they likely didn't have a means to get an education. Doesn't change the fact that what the man said isn't outside the context of the bible... quote: But the thief isn't making a commentary on the fairness of the sentence. He is simply observing that compared to at least one other person, he's at least being treated justly. Justly means more than that... quote: What about Acts 16, where a woman practices divination one moment, proclaims Paul and Silas as messengers from God the next moment (through the powers of her divination), and then goes straight back to work. She doesn't speak with the authority of the holy spirit, even if part of what she says may be Biblical. So actually, your interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16 fails even with the caveat that you've inserted. How does that compare to the words of the thief? I never said the thief was speaking with the authority of the holy spirit... quote: I think the trick here is that God expects us to use logic while interpreting the scripture. Even if the theif is right in saying that Jesus was wrongly convicted, we shouldn't take his statements about himself as an ethical commentary on the Roman criminal justice system. It wasn't an ethical commentary on the Roman criminal justice system it was statement of fact in regards to his case... John So much of this goes to show how well the GOP has painted itself as the morality party to grab the evangelical vote. It's ridiculous, but one that has worked on Christians. I had a Christian woman ask me recently if it wouldn't be a sin to vote Democrat. Republicans have had a fair amount of time to reverse RVW and have done nothing.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/4/2008 10:59:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wordsnpic quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc But we're more likely to interpret this in the context of Romans 6:23, not the verse in Leviticus 28:47 where we are instructed to crucify petty criminals. Other than yourself who said the men up there with Christ were petty criminals? quote: Hmmm, the last thing they were thinking about was legal ethics when they likely didn't have a means to get an education. Doesn't change the fact that what the man said isn't outside the context of the bible... quote: But the thief isn't making a commentary on the fairness of the sentence. He is simply observing that compared to at least one other person, he's at least being treated justly. Justly means more than that... quote: What about Acts 16, where a woman practices divination one moment, proclaims Paul and Silas as messengers from God the next moment (through the powers of her divination), and then goes straight back to work. She doesn't speak with the authority of the holy spirit, even if part of what she says may be Biblical. So actually, your interpretation of 2 Timothy 3:16 fails even with the caveat that you've inserted. How does that compare to the words of the thief? I never said the thief was speaking with the authority of the holy spirit... quote: I think the trick here is that God expects us to use logic while interpreting the scripture. Even if the theif is right in saying that Jesus was wrongly convicted, we shouldn't take his statements about himself as an ethical commentary on the Roman criminal justice system. It wasn't an ethical commentary on the Roman criminal justice system it was statement of fact in regards to his case... John So much of this goes to show how well the GOP has painted itself as the morality party to grab the evangelical vote. It's ridiculous, but one that has worked on Christians. I had a Christian woman ask me recently if it wouldn't be a sin to vote Democrat. Republicans have had a fair amount of time to reverse RVW and have done nothing. I haven't voted for the GOP since 1984.... John

mbmercado -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/6/2008 12:57:38 PM)
quote: quote: Since that�s the case and I am not saying I disagree with you, but what is the reason some of us are so loyal to some of these candidates? If we look at Senators McCain, Clinton and Obama all 3 have stood by policies that are and still inconsistent with Christian life. Let�s go deeper, why are some of us so loyal to our various political parties? The big 2 are both guilty of sinful behavior and un-Christian like policies. Are we ranking the sins when it come to people we don�t like or agree with politically? You got me. Personally, I'm looking for candidates that are Christians. It's slim pickins for sure. I voted for Huckabee myself. As for being loyal, I'm only loyal to Christ...I don't give that loyalty to a mere man. Human beings will disappoint every time! But I do feel we have a responsibility to vote so we have to do the best we can, with the Lord's leading. And, remember people...it's not us, but God that raises up leaders! We prayerfully vote, seeking His will for our choice, then the results are up to Him. So it's really a moot conversation, isn't it? I have read most of the comments here and I am still in the process of making my decision... but i agree with you.. while voting is a privledge and we should all vote, i feel like i have to choose between the lesser of two evils....

SweetPea213 -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/12/2008 9:47:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CCCdnt but out of curiosity, which candidate(s) support(s) eliminating the death penalty? As far as I know, none. That's because the death penalty is is regulated by each individual state government, not the federal government.

ljmac -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/13/2008 1:09:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SweetPea213 quote: ORIGINAL: CCCdnt but out of curiosity, which candidate(s) support(s) eliminating the death penalty? As far as I know, none. That's because the death penalty is is regulated by each individual state government, not the federal government. Obama has always been opposed to capital punishment for the guilty and in favor of it for the innocent. Lately, he has altered his position on the guilty for particularily nasty crimes like sucking the brains out of a baby. Oops, that's not right. He wants to reward those killers by paying for their services. kill the innocent

fist.sensei -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/22/2008 1:46:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rlj quote: There are other issues besides abortion. I'm absolutely disgusted with an administration that would higher a group of thugs like Blackwater who would murder innocent Iraqi's for no apparent reason and get off with it. Your ignorance is outstanding. Those "thugs" are former special operations Soldiers, who have given more for their country than you have. I'm glad you believe Al-Jazeera's spin on the story... not that they are biased [8\|]

ken1906_4 -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/23/2008 9:47:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Executions are carried out according to the sentences imposed by judges and juries. sign..... but don't govenors sign off on them? Bush's signature is on over 150 of them in Texas. No Christians name should be on any of them. Not a Christian that believes in the sanctity of life. Doesnt pro-life mean YOU are for life? I consider myself Pro-life. I don't like the deaths by abortions or the deaths of the babies from starvation or sids, etc. I don't like the deaths of people in war on either side. I don't like the deaths of innocent people or criminals. I hope abortion ends. But why would it in this society? I'm Pro-Life and feel the same way. It seems like being Pro-Life ends after the womb. Once out of the womb I guess your fair game. I remember seeing a picture of 2 year old toddler who house was bomb just before he died from his injuries. No uproar, no sadness and to think there maybe thousands of children who suffered the same fate. I guess this falls under the "Just War" umbrella and we can chalk this up as a simple casuality of war. I have to ask the question when does being pro-life end and who does it apply to? When I think pro-life I think ALL human life.

tracydolls -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/24/2008 2:38:24 AM)
quote: I'm Pro-Life and feel the same way. It seems like being Pro-Life ends after the womb. Once out of the womb I guess your fair game. I remember seeing a picture of 2 year old toddler who house was bomb just before he died from his injuries. No uproar, no sadness and to think there maybe thousands of children who suffered the same fate. I guess this falls under the "Just War" umbrella and we can chalk this up as a simple casuality of war. I have to ask the question when does being pro-life end and who does it apply to? When I think pro-life I think ALL human life. You want me to answer? It doesnt apply to any one that is not an American Christian and then only a select few of them. If say a baby in Africa, your out! You look like a Moslem , your out. You might have commited a crime, we will never know because we can't see the evidence because you never are going into a courtroom, you are out of here with glee! WE only want life for americans that live in the 'burbs and go to big mega-Churches and only listen to contempory music, and shop at Walmart. The rest are insurgents and it's ok to kill them!

saved9201 -> RE: Why no solutions? (6/24/2008 3:53:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: I'm Pro-Life and feel the same way. It seems like being Pro-Life ends after the womb. Once out of the womb I guess your fair game. I remember seeing a picture of 2 year old toddler who house was bomb just before he died from his injuries. No uproar, no sadness and to think there maybe thousands of children who suffered the same fate. I guess this falls under the "Just War" umbrella and we can chalk this up as a simple casuality of war. I have to ask the question when does being pro-life end and who does it apply to? When I think pro-life I think ALL human life. You want me to answer? It doesnt apply to any one that is not an American Christian and then only a select few of them. If say a baby in Africa, your out! You look like a Moslem , your out. You might have commited a crime, we will never know because we can't see the evidence because you never are going into a courtroom, you are out of here with glee! WE only want life for americans that live in the 'burbs and go to big mega-Churches and only listen to contempory music, and shop at Walmart. The rest are insurgents and it's ok to kill them! Ouch! Most of the causes you mentioned such as helping the underprivileged in Africa, reaching out to Muslims, contributing to legal defense funds for the poor, cost the Christian money, time, and/or effort. Being a champion for the unborn costs nothing. The unborn will never come to your door asking for a donation. Churches never take up collections to feed the unborn. There will never be a program for the unborn that will take a penny of your hard earned tax money. Nobody ever had to go out and witness to the unborn. All you have to do is vote for a republican every so often and "take a stand" in forums such as these, looking down on those of us who don't share your zeal for (apparently) the paramount cause in your life. In short, supporting the unborn doesn't cost you a dime, doesn't impose upon a minute of your time, and the "righteous indignation" expressed by those who support this and apparently no other cause, gives them a feeling of moral superiority as they look down with disdain over the rest of us who are deemed unworthy to be called Christians because we have equal compassion for those in need outside the womb. But those people cost money. -Julius

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