On the matter of outlining.. (Full Version)

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Nethrenia -> On the matter of outlining.. (5/29/2008 8:58:47 AM)

Hey there fellow authors. Let's share a bit about how you all outline ur works before getting started.
Some people actually suggests that as long as you know what you're writing about, an outline will be nothing but a hindrance... so ignore it.
Some others say that it is crucial -that a story developed as the author wrote along is a wild ride.

Personally I preferred to stick with the later option; I outline everything. But I'm beginning to realize that it is very exhausting and it drained up your passion reall fast! So I'm thinking about converting.. But then I felt like I haven't gave my best, if I actually just wrote wherever I felt like going. BUT then again there's the argument that that's exactly what being an artist is about, you work without no theories..

So.. what do y' got to say bout the matter? Any professionals would like to share?



Kathrynpagecamp -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (5/29/2008 9:55:50 AM)

Every writer is different, and the best answer is "whatever works for you." Personally, I do something in the middle. I create a very basic outline for the plot and brief character sketches for the main players. Then I fill in the details as I write. I have also discovered that I need to be flexible. If I get off track, the outline usually pulls me back. But it isn't sacred. If the story tells me I need to deviate from and/or change the outline, I do.



Ganheim -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (5/29/2008 10:10:57 AM)

The "whatever works for you" is probably the best advice you can get. I've done both writing without any outline and a rigid story that more fleshed out from the outline than grew guided by one. Personally, I think that my writing came out as better closer to the former option than the latter, but it's a good idea to have a sort of guide. Knowing not just what the end goal is but what the next milestone you need to reach can be a surprising help in finishing a chapter.

While you're writing, you'll probably notice that things will deviate slightly from the outline - that can actually be a good thing, when the characters "start making their own decisions" I call that God reaching into the writing. I've had that before when I started writing Life of the Silver Tear over six years ago, when somebody who was supposed to be a guest character turned into one of the most important secondary characters in the story. I had a lot of serious changes to the outline, but even with my bafflement at the time I knew that the story would only be better with it.



IonMoon -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (5/29/2008 1:24:29 PM)

For short works, I do not use an outline, but might jot notes here & there. I usually have a picture in my head of how the story will move along & end, though that sometimes changes as I go.

For longer works, I typically keep a file called "Outline & Notes" where I keep a rough outline that is developed as I go. This is a work in progress, and things get moved around within it, but it helps me to keep everything straight in my head and flowing smoothly.

Tara P



Elena1030 -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (5/30/2008 10:23:11 AM)

I'd love to find some tool that would help me do a mind map (ya know, that tool used for brainstorming) of my characters and plotlines. That really would have speeded up my NaNoWriMo project back in the fall.

I find that I cannot do a linear outline (like the ones required in school, to be turned in before even writing the first draft!!) until I know what I'm writing. And often I don't know what I plan to say until I write a first draft.

So... I guess you could describe my writing method as rather organic. Which is strange for me, since in a lot of ways I'm a rather linear thinker. Bizarre, no?



Nethrenia -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (6/5/2008 8:58:28 AM)

Well, that's a relief. I would say for some unknown reason (really, really, incomprehensible reason) an outline just wouldn't work for me. Good thing that there are people that prefer going 'organic'.



WholeHeart -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (6/5/2008 10:22:24 AM)

Oh, I could never use outlines, either. I did seriously try once when I was having trouble writing, and it did help. I didn't stick to it entirely, but it helped as far as it went. Mostly I keep a rough, half-complete outline in my head, shuffling at will until it matches whatever I eventually come up with. My opinion is that outlines are useful for those who can use them, but those who can't shouldn't worry too much.



Elena1030 -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (6/6/2008 5:11:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nethrenia

Well, that's a relief. I would say for some unknown reason (really, really, incomprehensible reason) an outline just wouldn't work for me. Good thing that there are people that prefer going 'organic'.


Sounds as if we are kindred spirits! [sm=icon_smile.gif]


quote:

ORIGINAL: WholeHeart

Oh, I could never use outlines, either. I did seriously try once when I was having trouble writing, and it did help. I didn't stick to it entirely, but it helped as far as it went. Mostly I keep a rough, half-complete outline in my head, shuffling at will until it matches whatever I eventually come up with. My opinion is that outlines are useful for those who can use them, but those who can't shouldn't worry too much.


Whee! You just gave me permission not to think I have to have some linear outline, even in my head! You have undone years of damage "inflicted" upon me by well-meaning English teachers!! [;)]

Seriously... it's wonderful to know I'm not alone in this issue. [:)]



If I come up with a visual aid to help me with my book, I'll take a photo of it or scan it in or something. And I'll post it somewhere and link to it here.... Maybe it would help others.

Actually, that's a really good challenge for me.



Nethrenia, if you come up with a great tool, please let us know!!



Nethrenia -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (6/8/2008 8:30:23 AM)

Sure thing people.

Lemme share my current procedures for now (though I never really tried it this way, but this thread convinced me).
Create a concept, e.g. a world where men got their gene intertwined with animals, where there are men with buffalo horns or eagle wings.
Then, as a well-known script writer once said, come up with a dramatic conflict, one that prompt action and have a significant change in one's life, it may be as subtle as trying to adept to new circumstances.
Then, like a role-play, be in the character(s) shoes and develop the story from there.

I'm still curious though at why outlines just simple won't work with some people (me inclusive). Is it because, after all, an art is but the expression of the artist (or author) and shouldn't follow a set 'rule'? Any thought on the matter?



Ganheim -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (6/10/2008 11:56:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nethrenia

I'm still curious though at why outlines just simple won't work with some people (me inclusive). Is it because, after all, an art is but the expression of the artist (or author) and shouldn't follow a set 'rule'? Any thought on the matter?

That is pretty much the case. It's easy to write a linear outline when you're preparing an essay on the effect of butane burners on liquid water - that's one thing where there's a logical progression with only one precise outcome: the water boiling.

When you're writing a story, you're dealing with a whole new animal. The writing (which myself and many other writers facetiously called "Nazi Format") that your grade school teachers is geared towards fact-driven essays. What we writers create is narrative, something that is truly an organic structure that isn't under our direct control...hence things like "writer's block" or the characters taking over and propelling the story in different directions.

That can be annoying, but when "the characters take control" I take that as a good thing. It's when the story has begun to take a life of its own that the magic enters the art.

Writing fiction (and even good nonfiction) isn't about unyielding structure, it's about moving along a journey, sometimes without a clear destination. Granted, it's important to have a destination or you could get lost and wander, but even if you don't have a map you can still make your way.

Same thing in writing.

It's that bit of direction a planned destination that an outline gives that can be helpful, but you've got to be willing to change it. In fact, (moreso the more thorough your outline) if your story didn't change from the outline then I might be worried. I've been writing for a long time, and I've known others who wrote for a long time, and all of us knew that the narrative would change. It never stuck exactly with what we thought it would do.



M-Paul -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (6/10/2008 5:03:59 PM)

Nethrenia,

An outline is a form of directed thinking. In our culture writing always ends up in that format. But it begins with associated thinking, which is the opposite of using an outline. It is in the process of giving structure to associated thinking that the Holy Spirit becomes involved in what we create. Good writers are aware of how both associated and directed thinking are a part of their work and inspiration.

For an introduction to how to use associated thinking in writing, I recommend Writing the Natural Way: Using Right Brain Techniques to Release Your Expressive Powers, by Gabrielle Lusser Rico.

The Bible depends more on associated thinking than directed in literary format, but translators force scripture into modern and directed layouts. Learning ancient literary devices is a great way to understand how associated thinking can be a part of our writing. Or learning how dreams function and have meaning also enhances the understanding of associated thinking. (Hmm—I think I’m within the forum rules, as I am not offering to interpret dreams, but just suggesting the study of the logic used with them).

However, this is all actually a long and complex subject.

M-Paul



Dancre -> RE: On the matter of outlining.. (6/13/2008 10:54:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nethrenia

Hey there fellow authors. Let's share a bit about how you all outline ur works before getting started.
Some people actually suggests that as long as you know what you're writing about, an outline will be nothing but a hindrance... so ignore it.
Some others say that it is crucial -that a story developed as the author wrote along is a wild ride.

Personally I preferred to stick with the later option; I outline everything. But I'm beginning to realize that it is very exhausting and it drained up your passion reall fast! So I'm thinking about converting.. But then I felt like I haven't gave my best, if I actually just wrote wherever I felt like going. BUT then again there's the argument that that's exactly what being an artist is about, you work without no theories..

So.. what do y' got to say bout the matter? Any professionals would like to share?


never leave home without an outline. It's up to you. I use an outline everytime. It's my roadmap. But whatever works for you is the most important thing you do. Don't make it too complicated, just enjoy the ride and hang on. :)

kim



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