Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (Full Version)

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BibleL7 -> Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/29/2008 6:22:39 PM)

Just a thought. In other threads it has been discussed whether or not leaders should be held to a higher standard and to the standards set forth in the Bible. If we believe the Bible to be the Word of God should not the leaders of the church live by it? Are we so prideful that we would consider our calling to preach to be more important than following His word?

Example of this I was licensed in 2005 as a minister. In the past few months I have been unemployed and not having my house in order. As one who believes the Bible to be true and that I was not meeting the requirements for a Minister I turned my license in to my Pastor and resigned my ministry office in the church. Hard decission but one that I felt had to be done if I were to be a witness of the Lord.

In one other thread someone said that if elders children should be saved that a lot of elders would have to step down. Perhaps this is one of the problems with leaders, that they do not consider it important for them to be the examples and be held to a higher standard. Do we not take the words in James to be true that not many should be teachers as we will come into a stricter condemnation? Can we really justify not taking the full Word of God into account? Perhaps if more leaders would step down when they find themselves approaching wrong doing, even momentarily, to get our houses in order then perhaps our witness before the world would not be so tarnished as it is for the many being caught in sin and exposed. Perhaps it would have been better to voluntarily step down to be a better witness and to be more in line with His teaching.



rcjames -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/29/2008 6:32:24 PM)

I agree that any minister who is not in line with the biblical qualifications for their ministry should step down. No delay, no excuses, just step down.

Thanks
RC



Bro_Shane -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/29/2008 9:11:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BibleL7

Just a thought. In other threads it has been discussed whether or not leaders should be held to a higher standard and to the standards set forth in the Bible. If we believe the Bible to be the Word of God should not the leaders of the church live by it? Are we so prideful that we would consider our calling to preach to be more important than following His word?

Example of this I was licensed in 2005 as a minister. In the past few months I have been unemployed and not having my house in order. As one who believes the Bible to be true and that I was not meeting the requirements for a Minister I turned my license in to my Pastor and resigned my ministry office in the church. Hard decission but one that I felt had to be done if I were to be a witness of the Lord.

In one other thread someone said that if elders children should be saved that a lot of elders would have to step down. Perhaps this is one of the problems with leaders, that they do not consider it important for them to be the examples and be held to a higher standard. Do we not take the words in James to be true that not many should be teachers as we will come into a stricter condemnation? Can we really justify not taking the full Word of God into account? Perhaps if more leaders would step down when they find themselves approaching wrong doing, even momentarily, to get our houses in order then perhaps our witness before the world would not be so tarnished as it is for the many being caught in sin and exposed. Perhaps it would have been better to voluntarily step down to be a better witness and to be more in line with His teaching.


The decision must have been very hard for you, but you made the correct one. The right thing to do is hardly the easiest. You and yours are in my prayers.



Consecrated2God -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/30/2008 9:21:02 AM)

quote:

If we believe the Bible to be the Word of God should not the leaders of the church live by it?


Of course. I can't imagine anyone thinking differently.



rcjames -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/30/2008 9:31:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

quote:

If we believe the Bible to be the Word of God should not the leaders of the church live by it?


Of course. I can't imagine anyone thinking differently.


But sadly that is not the case much of the time.

Part of my ministry is dealing with Pastors who have gone astray (both in the area of personal sin, and in doctrine). I the number one reason for them not voluntarily stepping down is that they have elevated their "Ministry" to a near God level. The just feel that the ministry cannot go or or survive without them (I think that would be called delusion).

Most are astounded that the Ministry of our Lord continues just fine after they are diciplined and sat down, usually does a lot better that when the leader was out of order.

Thsnks
RC



Consecrated2God -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/30/2008 9:39:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

quote:

If we believe the Bible to be the Word of God should not the leaders of the church live by it?


Of course. I can't imagine anyone thinking differently.


But sadly that is not the case much of the time.

Part of my ministry is dealing with Pastors who have gone astray (both in the area of personal sin, and in doctrine). I the number one reason for them not voluntarily stepping down is that they have elevated their "Ministry" to a near God level. The just feel that the ministry cannot go or or survive without them (I think that would be called delusion).

Most are astounded that the Ministry of our Lord continues just fine after they are diciplined and sat down, usually does a lot better that when the leader was out of order.

Thsnks
RC


I can imagine stepping down voluntarily would be difficult for the reasons you mentioned. But surely they know that a leader should be living by the Word of God, even if they for some reason aren't at the moment? Maybe they think they can get it under control while they are still in ministry or something. Maybe I'm just naive, but the idea of a minister thinking that they shouldn't have to live by the Bible just doesn't equate.



rcjames -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/30/2008 11:46:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
I can imagine stepping down voluntarily would be difficult for the reasons you mentioned. But surely they know that a leader should be living by the Word of God, even if they for some reason aren't at the moment? Maybe they think they can get it under control while they are still in ministry or something. Maybe I'm just naive, but the idea of a minister thinking that they shouldn't have to live by the Bible just doesn't equate.


WEll I guesss that a leader who is in sin or error just is not functioning will enough to do the right thing most of the time.

I speak of stepping down from personal experience as well as professional experience. A munber of years ago my teenage daughter became pregnant, and that put me at direct odds with this verse;

(1Ti 3:4) One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

(1Ti 3:5) (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

My 14 year old daughter practicing fornication surely was not me haviong my children in subjection with all gravity. So I resigned my Pastorship the next morniong after I found out, turned in my credentials ;to the denomination and spent 2 years caring for, loving on, and teaching my family.

I then went to the denominations, was reinstated, and returned to the ministry.

Now I did recieve much grief from the Church, the denomination, my Pastor friends, etc. for stepping down, but it was the correct thing to do.

The end run is that my daughter deep and raised the baby. went back to high school school, was in the National Honor Society, graduated Validictorian, now has her Doctrate in two diciplines, and is a Professor at the University of Texas. She is happily married and has more children. The baby is one of my my favorite grandsons and is a junior at the University of Texas on combination football and scholastic scholarships.

As for me, I have been in the ministry for a total of 45 years (not including the two when I stepped down), and am loving it.

The instructions are in the Bible for a reason, and when we follow them things turn out right.


Thanks
RC



Consecrated2God -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/30/2008 12:53:24 PM)

Thanks for sharing, RC. I commend you for your actions--you definitely practice what you preach. [:)]



RJR_fan -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/31/2008 9:38:28 AM)

quote:

Now I did recieve much grief from the Church, the denomination, my Pastor friends, etc. for stepping down, but it was the correct thing to do.


The million suckers orator Billy Sunday talked into "walking down the aisle" were less important than the three sons and one daughter who he sacrificed to his "ministry." (Of course, it's unfair for me to smugly pass judgment on this famous preacher from the safe perch of nearly a century's hindsight. At the time, he did what he thought best ... but wise men learn from the experience of the failures.)



lightshineon -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/31/2008 11:10:34 PM)

I have a question, what if a member of a leaders family, has been falsely accused of sin. Should a leader step down, despite overwhelming evidence, that a situation is untrue. If the leader really had an doubt that it was true, no one would have to ask him to step down, it would be without quesion. I have another question, if there is any doubt, of truth, should they ask a leader to step down? I know in the case I am talking about, leaders know it is not true, no evidence. What is a leader to do? his family is in order, but, troublemakers are pointing the accusing finger at leaders child, should leader just step down? Thank You.



Roberta_ -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/31/2008 11:22:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God

quote:

If we believe the Bible to be the Word of God should not the leaders of the church live by it?


Of course. I can't imagine anyone thinking differently.


Wouldn't it be nice if all Christians did think that way?



funny_girl -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (5/31/2008 11:23:47 PM)

What is really sad RC, is how many pastors walk without a vision when facing problems. Do they think that they're not allowed to have a problem in life because they're called? What I mean is that a minister could have a vision for his life and when faced with a setback, throws the whole vision away and says it's over. Sometimes our ideas do have to die so that God can do the work to bring it about but I know there are ministers that feel that if it didn't work out the way they thought it would then there is no other way. With God, all things are possible. When we fail, the best thing to do is admit our failure, take the time to rehabilitate and be reconciled.

I'm glad you turned into a good example RC! Thanks![:D] "Now don't get a big head about it." That's what my mother tells me when I feel vindicated, lol



Consecrated2God -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/1/2008 8:24:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

I have a question, what if a member of a leaders family, has been falsely accused of sin. Should a leader step down, despite overwhelming evidence, that a situation is untrue. If the leader really had an doubt that it was true, no one would have to ask him to step down, it would be without quesion. I have another question, if there is any doubt, of truth, should they ask a leader to step down? I know in the case I am talking about, leaders know it is not true, no evidence. What is a leader to do? his family is in order, but, troublemakers are pointing the accusing finger at leaders child, should leader just step down? Thank You.


If the leader hasn't done anything wrong, they shouldn't step down. Paul was accused of wrong doing in his time, and he defended his actions and didn't step down.



rcjames -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/1/2008 5:40:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
If the leader hasn't done anything wrong, they shouldn't step down.


I think the instructions in Scripture go a little deeper than that in they include;

(1Ti 3:7) Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

If a Pastor does not have a good reputation with those on the outside of the Church; he is not qualified. If accusations (even false ones) are plastered all over the newspaper etc. then his reputation would be mush.

As for me, If I was accused of some dastardly deed, I would step down until the situation was resolved as not to bring reproach to the ministry and the body of Christ.

Thanks
RC



lightshineon -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/1/2008 9:28:00 PM)

RC, this is about my husband who, has a very good reputation inside and out of the church. This has to do with two twelve year old boys, accusing my fourteen year old daughter, and her friend of something. It was proven not true, but, it is all so hurtful. My children are such good girls, they are sexualy prue, and very polite and respectful. I am so put off with pastor, and Childrens pastor right now. I feel like leaving the church, and I see why people say people in the church are hypocrites sometimes, but I guess that would include me also (LOL). I wish people could realize we are repersenitives of Christ here on earth, and act like it. No one has ask my husband to step down, and if they really believe this salem witch trial, then Biblicaly they by all means should. Myself, I feel a spiritual wound so deep, that all I do is cry. I do not care if he steps down, I love my daughter more than position, especially with the lies, and two sided speech I have heard. Please everyone do not take this as ugly or personal just been hit by friendly fire, and you know how demoralizing that is even in the real army, it applies to the church also. So please no pne take my comment personal, just a very hurt mother, Sunday School teacher, elders wife, and someone who loves Christ above anyone.



BibleL7 -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/2/2008 5:28:59 AM)

lightshineon

I am totally sorry for your difficulty with your church. I would not classify false accusations, especially proven false as a reason to step down from Ministry. I would say that if leaders of your church are treating you poorly when the accusations were proven false instead of apologizing to you and family then perhaps you should pray about leaving the church you are attending. I certainly do not see this to be a reason for surrendering a license.

What I made the original post about is a matter that i believe it is a problem particularly with preachers that we are so prideful of our calling that we do not see possible problems arising and instead of temporarily stepping down we end up having to step down or be put down. I would tend to believe that we should as leaders fear the Lord and have fear of bringing disgrace upon all ministers because we are not willing to step down and take a time to get our hearts back right with the Lord so we can then retake up our ministry and still glorify the Lord. However with many of the posts I have seen it seems many do not feel that we should care about the witness we give for the Lord as far as truth is concerned.



rcjames -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/2/2008 9:10:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

RC, this is about my husband who, has a very good reputation inside and out of the church. This has to do with two twelve year old boys, accusing my fourteen year old daughter, and her friend of something. It was proven not true, but, it is all so hurtful. My children are such good girls, they are sexualy prue, and very polite and respectful. I am so put off with pastor, and Childrens pastor right now. I feel like leaving the church, and I see why people say people in the church are hypocrites sometimes, but I guess that would include me also (LOL). I wish people could realize we are repersenitives of Christ here on earth, and act like it. No one has ask my husband to step down, and if they really believe this salem witch trial, then Biblicaly they by all means should. Myself, I feel a spiritual wound so deep, that all I do is cry. I do not care if he steps down, I love my daughter more than position, especially with the lies, and two sided speech I have heard. Please everyone do not take this as ugly or personal just been hit by friendly fire, and you know how demoralizing that is even in the real army, it applies to the church also. So please no pne take my comment personal, just a very hurt mother, Sunday School teacher, elders wife, and someone who loves Christ above anyone.


Lightshineon,

I am so sorry for the troubles that have beset your family, and by what you say I would see no reason for your husband to step down.

Gossip and inuendo are the favorite toos of the devil and seems he is using them quite effectively in your situation. Just keep your faith and this too will pass.

I would encourage you to stay at the Church, as leaving under false accusations would not be a good thing. Your Pastor should be giving you support here, and I hope he is.

The guidelines in 1 TIm 3 say that the Bishop must have a good reputation and hold in family in subjection. That would seem to be the case from your post, so I do not see the problem.

Thanks
RC



bzirk -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/4/2008 10:09:33 AM)

I'm sorry for your troubles, light, and I'll keep you and yours in m prayers.

As to someone not stepping down when they should, we all know why that happens. It's about power. What's really sad about these kinds of situations is that often times people know if someone needs to step down -- especially kids who have such an honest way of looking at things without making excuses. It's so damaging for kids to see that kind of hypocrisy. I know that as a child, this was one of the things that turned me off about traditional church and in my immaturity I used it as a means to hold a grudge against the traditional church. Thankfully, the Lord didn't let me stay there. But it's a shame I was even exposed as a child to that kind of nonsense.



jn1010lf -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/4/2008 11:11:15 AM)

Hello BibleL7

Are you sure you've not allowed Satan to destroy you? If your heart is totally toward the Lord, you should proceed no matter what anyone else does; your family, wife, kids, or whoever. If they decide to join you in your walk with the Lord, welcome them. If they reject Jesus, let them go.

Now if you know that you've fallen from grace, yes step aside till you gain victory over whatever sin contaminates your call. But remember this. God never pulls His calling back, nor cancels His anointing. I'm convinced that the mantel of world evangelism is still on the Jews. If they ever find it, no force on earth will harrass them or scatter them to the far corners of the world in rebellion.

So, let the Lord dust you off, clean you up and point you once again in the direction that He has ordained you to go.



crankius -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/4/2008 11:34:01 AM)

1 Timothy 5:19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except from two or three witnesses. 20 Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.


I'm sorry for all you are going through, lightshineon.

Your husband can hold to scripture. If there were two or three witnesses to behavior which would make your husband disqualified for being an elder, then the other elders had a scriptural obligation to hear the accusation.

Once the accusation was found false, it may be best for the pastor to publicly clear your husband before the church members and publicly declare that your husband is going to remain an elder.

The gossip should be stopped -- nipped in the bud! [:D]

Of course, I don't know the entire situation and maybe a public endorsement of your husband isn't needed or the right course, but definitely the church should be stopping any gossip and slander which may harm your husband, and the best way to do that usually is to address the issue straight on with openness.



BibleL7 -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/8/2008 8:49:07 AM)

Jn1010lf, No family to be involved I am single, never married and no children, as to spiritual attack that is likely part of situation yet this is a one stoplight town and being out of work is hard and there are not many openings. Definitely not a defeat by enemy yet. I am still with the church and still a trustee and treasurer. There is enough accountability for the financial part of church funds and the church has re-elected me to treasurer knowing of my financial situation. However, there are some in other churches in town that are very much into investigating preachers. I simply felt that rather than be accused of not qualifying to preach because of financial situation I would turn my license in first.



BillBaileyBFAFan -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/8/2008 6:56:25 PM)

I'm not sure why you would step down as a pastor just because you lost your job. If you are trying to find a new job, I am not sure what the problem is. If a pastor has a good job and then all of the sudden his company goes out of business is that man supposed to just step down?? I dont get that at all. If you are lazy and dont want to find a job then that's a different deal altogether, which I would assume you are not.
What's next? A pastor doesnt have a 100k a year job, so he needs to step down for not having his house in order?? Where does it stop.
If you lose your job but have enough in savings to get you by until you can find one, should you still step down???



BibleL7 -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/10/2008 9:01:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBaileyKQFan

I'm not sure why you would step down as a pastor just because you lost your job. If you are trying to find a new job, I am not sure what the problem is. If a pastor has a good job and then all of the sudden his company goes out of business is that man supposed to just step down?? I dont get that at all. If you are lazy and dont want to find a job then that's a different deal altogether, which I would assume you are not.
What's next? A pastor doesnt have a 100k a year job, so he needs to step down for not having his house in order?? Where does it stop.
If you lose your job but have enough in savings to get you by until you can find one, should you still step down???


One thing of correction I am not and was not a pastor I was licensed minister not even ordained. I had no savings to draw on. My checking account went overdrawn from a service charge. I am behind on my bills for I have been out of work nearly six months now. As I explained to my pastors and the congregation I turned in my license till I have means of getting my bills back in order. I teach and preach the Bible and fully believe that ministers are called to a higher standard. As I teach this to others I feel it would be absolutely wrong and hypacritical of me to remain in ministry position. Also as I stated we are in a small town and there are some in town who are very particularly critical of ministers and pastors. One church actually does a full background check on anybody in church leadership. And word gets around here very quickly. Also there is not a lot of oportunity for work in this small town and for the moment the Lord has not opened any doors on any of the jobs I have applied for.

Many pastors are paid and or provided for by the congregation and I do not wish to discuss in this thread if a pastor or minister should be paid or not it is biblically correct to do so. Our congregation however does not pay the pastor and there are no paid staff members.

No I do not think that just being out of work would be a reason for a minister or pastor to step down, I was stating that if a minister or pastor are not in line with the qualifications as stated in the Bible, perhaps they should consider stepping down until they can return to the state of being qualified. I only used myself as an example. I believe that leaders in the church are to set an example to the congregation. I also believe that as one in such a position that we should care enough to take time out to make sure we do not transgress against our Lord. I believe that if there is a problem we are having that could lead to disqualification we should be willing to step down momentarily while we take care of that situation. I fully believe we should not let pride of calling get in the way of us doing so when a little time off could keep us from coming to the point that we are called to resign or worse create a scandle. I am not limiting this to financial. And yes I would include if a minister is having marital problems he should work to get them resolved and if that would require a short time of not preaching then that would be preferable.



bluestone -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/10/2008 9:22:56 AM)

We had a pastor whose 17 yr. old teenage daughter was having a sexual affair with a 27 year old divorced man. As soon as the pastor found out, he called in the church board and resigned.

A few years later we had a pastor whose teenage son was involved sexually with two girls. That pastor did everything he could to cover it up and keep the girl's families from finding out. He was asked to resign (there were other problems too) and he refused. Within a month, he did resign to go to another church. The District leadership was fully aware of what was going on.

Sometimes people and denominations try to avoid scandal by pretending nothing is going on.



rcjames -> RE: Why Not Step Down from Ministry? (6/10/2008 9:51:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone
Sometimes people and denominations try to avoid scandal by pretending nothing is going on.


Such is true, and such is sooooooo wrong.

When a problem arises many have fears of the knowledge hurting the ministry and cover-up and hide the truth.

When in reality dealing with something quickly and Biblically will only benefit the ministry.

The sad situation that the Catholic Church had should have been dealt with quickly and Biblically, but it was not and many many more were hurt because of it.

There was even a book out by Bishop Paulk from Atlanta that taught the importance of protecting "The ministry" at all cost, and keeping error in leadership a secret. That was wrong wrong wrong, and I beliee he ended up paying the price for doing that.

God's ministry will survive and prosper no matter how hard we ministers try to screw it up.

Vanity vanity all is vanity.

Thanks
RC



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