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landabee -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 10:48:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rnershigh

Why are you bringing skin color into this?
Because the congregation is majority black doesn't mean anything.
I didn't bring race into it, you did so I am angry that you are implying I have some stereotype that all black people would react in anger and violence.

Why is it, that someone has to bring race into the picture I can't imagine either.[8D][8|]


Because it is the elephant in the room.

Your just NOW getting angry?

Since I obviously mistook your inference, I do apologize.

The whole topic has been about what has been identified as Black Liberation Theology. Did you miss that?

Did you also miss the posters that condemned it? Myself included?

This whole topic is steeped in racism from all aspects.



tracydolls -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 10:57:20 AM)

A true Christian would tell the truth.

Yes, America has did black people wrong for 100's of years. They killed millions of us. They enslaved us.

But we are to love our enemies.

A true Christian would show them where G-d is going to avenge them and don't try to do it theirselves.



JimboFletch -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 11:08:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

A true Christian would tell the truth.

Yes, America has did black people wrong for 100's of years. They killed millions of us. They enslaved us.

But we are to love our enemies.

A true Christian would show them where G-d is going to avenge them and don't try to do it theirselves.

And, according to Jesus, we are to forgive. If we don't, it will eat us alive, it will rob us of life abundant that He provides, and keep us from all of God's grace for us ("your Father will not forgive your transgressions".



mapachito13 -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 11:24:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

And, according to Jesus, we are to forgive. If we don't, it will eat us alive, it will rob us of life abundant that He provides, and keep us from all of God's grace for us ("your Father will not forgive your transgressions".


Amen! Brother Jimbo! Amen! "As we forgive those who wrong us" Matthew 6:12 But that's a tough one in this day and age!



tracydolls -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 11:29:41 AM)

oh, I agree, forgive them. Love them.

I would read this verse to them.

Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you,



landabee -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 11:32:49 AM)

Yes, but is a tiring struggle to daily be faced with challenges that require herculean restraint. It is a daily dying to self.

Forgive? Done. To hate is to fall away from Him that loves me. It ain't worth it. [;)]
However, one can not ask to be forgiven.... and then deny that there was ever anything needing forgiveness or insist that other's life experiences were simply aberrations or did not happen.

That is the point. [;)]

And I think that anger fuels misguided responses and teachings.



JimboFletch -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 11:43:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: landabee

Yes, but is a tiring struggle to daily be faced with challenges that require herculean restraint. It is a daily dying to self.

Forgive? Done. To hate is to fall away from Him that loves me. It ain't worth it. [;)]
However, one can not ask to be forgiven.... and then deny that there was ever anything needing forgiveness or insist that other's life experiences were simply aberrations or did not happen.

That is the point. [;)]

And I think that anger fuels misguided responses and teachings.

Bee, if I have offended you or Tracy, I sincerely ask your forgiveness. Though I may come across as an old curmudgeon, I truly respect and love you two in Jesus Christ, our Lord.



landabee -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 11:45:52 AM)

quote:

I truly respect and love you two in Jesus Christ, our Lord.


The feeling is mutual, brother.

I know that you have a heart for Jesus. Thank you for reaching out to me again. It means more than you know.



stellaluna -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 11:48:05 AM)

And just out of curiosity--seriously--what say you about white people whose ancestors literally had nothing to do with slavery?

I posted somewhere else that there are white people who "benefit" from the things you speak of simply because they were born with fair skin...not because their ancestors did anything. (Can't remember what thread that was, but no one responded to it.)

And what how do you address people of mixed race? Do they just get to pick whatever ancestry they want to feel a part of without embracing the other? And what about people of color like a friend I have from Trinidad? He is black as coal and becomes enraged every time someone calls him "African-American." First, he says, he is not from Africa. Second, he says, unless you were born in Africa and came here, you are American period.

I'm truly curious. We are so mixed up together that I can't imagine how anyone can point fingers at anyone else and accuse them of anything. I can't imagine how you could stand up in a pulpit and judge someone on the basis of their skin color because they may or may not have judged you on your skin color. I didn't hear anything but hatred come out of that priest in this sermon and that freaks me out:
quote:

ORIGINAL: landabee
And I think that anger fuels misguided responses and teachings.



tracydolls -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 11:58:06 AM)

quote:

Bee, if I have offended you or Tracy, I sincerely ask your forgiveness. Though I may come across as an old curmudgeon, I truly respect and love you two in Jesus Christ, our Lord.



Brother Jimbo,

I ask yours too. For any thing I have said or thought that was offensive.

To say what you say, it means alot. WE cannot change the past. I have come to the realization that the Lord allowed all of it. So then I began to ask why? He showed me why.

I love you to in the Lord.

You old, WISE, Curmudgeon!



landabee -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 12:00:13 PM)

Stellaluna, I judge each person by their deeds. I have ancestors that have done things that I'm not proud of. I am not held in contempt for those things. Neither should a white American that does not hold the same hatred filled beliefs be either.

But, I have a real problem with revisionist history that marginalizes the effect of slavery of blacks in Amerca.

I have a real problem when I am told that my experiences are over exaggerated, or worse: imaginary.

quote:

And what how do you address people of mixed race? Do they just get to pick whatever ancestry they want to feel a part of without embracing the other? And what about people of color like a friend I have from Trinidad? He is black as coal and becomes enraged every time someone calls him "African-American." First, he says, he is not from Africa. Second, he says, unless you were born in Africa and came here, you are American period.


You address people of mixed race as they request to be addressed. It varies from person to person. [;)][:D][:)]

My nieces and nephews claim to be multiracial... and they embrace all aspects of their heritages.

Your friend is right. He isn't African American. He should be addressed as he requests. I agree that I am American. However, the society that I live in likes to make groups. I identify with my black skin, abuelita from Mexico and my American citizenship. [:)] Mostly identify with belonging to Him.


quote:

I didn't hear anything but hatred come out of that priest in this sermon and that freaks me out:


Yep. Anger expressed nonproductively and inflammatorily.

BLOG ADDRESSING ISSUE

ETA: The blog author is a young white man in America.


***lunch time***



stellaluna -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 12:16:52 PM)

That's an interesting blog. I'm going to take it over to the one-stop thread.



P31W -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 12:46:27 PM)

quote:

So you would'nt speak to them at all.


Not from the pulpit of that place "they call a church".



P31W -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 12:53:20 PM)

quote:

Forgive? Done. To hate is to fall away from Him that loves me. It ain't worth it.
However, one can not ask to be forgiven.... and then deny that there was ever anything needing forgiveness or insist that other's life experiences were simply aberrations or did not happen.

That is the point.

And I think that anger fuels misguided responses and teachings.


One major problem with the sermon is that is was a "political speech" and honestly had nothing to do God.

The man was judging someone's motives and he is doing so in direct contradiction to Jesus teachings concerning judging and the standard we are to use to judge others and the humble way we are to go about trying to "help" someone we believe to be in sin.

The man is also speaking about "white entitlement" a sin that I am sure exist - however he is speaking about it before a majority black congregation........what was the purpose? Could "they" repent of that sin? Of course not. They can only become "angry" over it.


This is not a chruch it's a cult.



bluestone -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 12:59:21 PM)

I thought curmudgeons lived in the Ocean, and are good with butter and lemon[&:]



tracydolls -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 1:01:09 PM)

quote:

And just out of curiosity--seriously--what say you about white people whose ancestors literally had nothing to do with slavery
?


It's a heart matter. Do you feel sorry that it happened?



landabee -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 1:05:41 PM)

quote:

The man is also speaking about "white entitlement" a sin that I am sure exist - however he is speaking about it before a majority black congregation........what was the purpose? Could "they" repent of that sin? Of course not. They can only become "angry" over it.


Did you see my statement?

quote:

And I think that anger fuels misguided responses and teachings.



BTW....anyone with a heart available to Jesus can repent. Anyone.

Why not join me in praying for a fruitful dialogue within that church that will emphasize the Word, doing unto others and forgiveness? I am also praying for spiritual and emotional healing.


Let's be proactive, shall we? [:)]



P31W -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 1:27:39 PM)

quote:

Did you see my statement?


Yes my post was in agreement with it.

quote:

Why not join me in praying for a fruitful dialogue within that church that will emphasize the Word, doing unto others and forgiveness? I am also praying for spiritual and emotional healing.


I am not sure that I am to be in prayer over a cult? They teach a false Jesus. I do pray the members there will seek to know the real Jesus and leave that cult. I think most of us pray for the lost. At least those of us who have a burdon for the lost no matter what false group they may or may not belong to. They are lost.

quote:

This whole topic is steeped in racism from all aspects.


For me it's more about a group who are involved in false doctrine calling themselves Christians.



mapachito13 -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 1:41:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

The man is also speaking about "white entitlement" a sin that I am sure exist - however he is speaking about it before a majority black congregation........what was the purpose? Could "they" repent of that sin? Of course not. They can only become "angry" over it.


This is an excellent point! While righteous indignation has its place, two wrongs still don't equal a right!

The priest needed to be showing how the power of Christ can help us overcome those societal problems and live as one people under Our God not how we are better than them because...

That is the pharisee's prayer of Luke 18:9-14.



stellaluna -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 2:32:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:

And just out of curiosity--seriously--what say you about white people whose ancestors literally had nothing to do with slavery
?
It's a heart matter. Do you feel sorry that it happened?

It was a travesty. I hate that it happened. I hate that there are still people in slavery. My heart hurts for so many people suffering all kinds of persecution.



tracydolls -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/4/2008 8:57:46 PM)

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed within himself in this way: God, I thank You that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax-collector.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice on the Sabbath, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And standing afar off, the tax-collector would not even lift up his eyes to Heaven, but struck on his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner!


LOL! Mapachito13,

That is a good one!

I look at all peoples as all sinners. I know without Jesus I would be QUEEN of sinners, or like Paul Said Captain.

Mormons, Moslems, Christians with false doctrine and the ones that know the Bible and go to Church every Sunday.

All sinners.


All needing Jesus!



tracydolls -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/5/2008 12:23:17 AM)

quote:

It was a travesty. I hate that it happened. I hate that there are still people in slavery. My heart hurts for so many people suffering all kinds of persecution.



Then that's it. Love your neighbor's. Keep doing that.

God is love.



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/5/2008 12:28:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

A true Christian would tell the truth.

Yes, America has did black people wrong for 100's of years. They killed millions of us. They enslaved us.

But we are to love our enemies.

A true Christian would show them where G-d is going to avenge them and don't try to do it theirselves.


Who killed millions of blacks?

John



tracydolls -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/5/2008 1:36:01 AM)

quote:

Who killed millions of blacks?



John, the green martians from Mars did.[8|]



3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Trinity's latest sermon (6/5/2008 6:29:51 AM)

Tracy, don't forget that *Africans* and Arabs willingly participated in the slave trade, capturing and selling their fellow "people of color".

Whites don't have a corner on evil. Whites didn't even have a corner on slave trade. [&:]



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