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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 6:10:24 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
No matter how much faith you have if you command a tree to get up and walk it will not.
Since this statement is agaist God's Word, I do not think I will comment other that post a Scritpure;
(Mat 21:21) Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
So if it works for a mountain; then it surely works for a tree.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 8:49:07 PM
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makarizo
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quote:
AboundinginHisGrace said:
1 john 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will. He hears us. ------ True faith, by Christ's definition, always involves surrender to the will of God.
Amen!!! Heb 11: without faith it is impossible to please God... faith is what connects us intimately to God, and it is the one condition upon commanding a mulberry tree to move.
I believe the (power of the) Spirit of God is alive, active, and at work in His saints.
I am one of His saints, and I understand that apart from Christ, I am nothing, but In Christ I have power & authority - a result of faith and obedience.
without faith, it is merely testing God.... and that is not a good thing.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 10:35:02 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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So you are saying you can perform a miracle without it being God's Will, just because you have faith that it will happen? I am not saying its not possible to make a tree get up and walk, IF ITS GODS WILL. If its not God's will then it will not happen. If you have true FAITH you will be seeking God's will not mans will. So you will only have true Faith, if you are asking for God's will to be done. I am not saying its not possible, my point is just because you have faith it will happen doesn't mean it will happen, IF its not God's will. Once again Christ uses us WE DO NOT USE GOD!
< Message edited by AboundinginHisGrace -- 6/2/2008 10:48:12 PM >
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 10:57:18 PM
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Miril
Posts: 117
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Yes they still do.
I have been healed from cancer twice. Once colon cancer, this last time lung cancer and a skin condition. Not to mention the many times angels of God have saved me from the hands of death.
My testimony is VERY long, I have actually been fighting death since I was in my mother's womb. So much to tell. I will write it out one day soon and post it.
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Proverbs 15
3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Keeping watch on the evil and the good.
God Bless.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 9:06:39 AM
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visus
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I am glad to see your testimony Miril.
I believe there is a plot to overturn everything of the christian belief, in so doing devils can do as they like.
Christianity is weak, its faith for the most part is weak. That is why we are not seeing more people being healed regularly. we go to church and PLAY the part of christians not realizing the God we should be serving is the most POWERFUL GOD who if we would only believe and have the smallest amount of FAITH we would do well, but we don't.
Some of us prefer to read books written by men and not the book inspired by the Holy Ghost. I can clearly see why you have NO FAITH in such things.
I further believe satan can not miraculously heal the sick. What he can do is offer you herbs to heal you, because every sickness can be healed by some plant out there, and he have an understanding of such.
If we are going to experience more healings etc we need to walk more in the Spirit than in the flesh. You need therfore to submit yourselves to fastings and prayer, and read your bible. Please don't wait on your pastor alone to hear the Word which builds FAITH.
p.s When Jesus healed the sick some at that time believed he did it through satan. The more things change the more they stay the same.
< Message edited by visus -- 6/3/2008 9:17:56 AM >
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 9:27:45 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: visus
...I further believe satan can not miraculously heal the sick...
Then you seriously underestimate the god of this world and our ememy.
Seriously.
quote:
p.s When Jesus healed the sick some at that time believed he did it through satan. The more things change the more they stay the same.
PS Jesus Christ is God the Son. Not every man/woman claiming to heal in the name of "Jesus" is genuine. It is a fact of warfare that the enemy dresses like us, learns the language, and attempts to fit in.
The Biblical position is still - and will be until the return of Jesus Christ - to TEST every spirit, not accept each on face value.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 3:41:21 PM
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SpeakFriendAndEnter
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Miril,
I don't know what kind of church you go to, but that doesn't sound right to me about : quote:
(which I can tell now and am able to control it better) that I have the ability to walk in the spirit realm.
I had the idea that Jesus warned against exploring spiritual forces, so to speak, which is what it sounds like you are talking about. I don't believe there is any support in the Bible for the notion of a "spirit realm."
I see you call yourself a "baby Christian." Don't let someone lead you astray.
Also, I would question the fact that you can "smell" an unbeliever. What if they're just dirty? I'm not sure it is given for any of US to know a man's heart. Even our own is under the care of Jesus, but I don't believe it is important for us to know our own hearts the way Jesus and co. do.
Can anyone supply a verse relating to this? I haven't found the one I was looking for with Jesus' teaching yet.
thanks
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 4:52:55 PM
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Miril
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Ephesians 1:3
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Ephesians 6:12
12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Romans 8:9
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
Ephesians 6:11-13
11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
Side note: The day of evil already came, we have been at war in the spirit for a while now.
Heavily anointed people see it and are in battle everyday, hour, minute and second of their lives. Me being a baby Christian has no limit on what I see and feel, I have no choice.
_____________________________
Proverbs 15
3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Keeping watch on the evil and the good.
God Bless.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 4:53:40 PM
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pneil
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I believe that the Holy Spirit is present and at work (actively)
in the world today. I believe that Christians are empowered
(or given authority) over the forces of this world. I believe that
we are supposed to exercise discerment and only put our hands
to the works that the Father has for us. I believe that faith is a
requirement for that sort of action.
I believe that the enemy is a liar and will use any method
possible to distract and discourage us. This can include convincing
good people to do bad things and misuse the gifts that they've
been given. He'd also love it if he could convince us all that
the Holy Spirit had no power in this day and age. That would make
his goals much easier to attain. War is much simpler if you can
get your enemy to throw away his weapons.
I know people that are walking this out today. People get healed
in our church regularly. I also know that I'm not there yet, but
I'm a work in progress. I have high hopes, and my hope is in Him.
Blessings,
pneil
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 6:31:34 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
I've done missions work in Third-World countries, and have seen numerous miracles...and I don't use the term lightly. I've seen God take a baby born with no eyes and create them in her head, inside the space of a minute, while the rest our team just watched in awe and praised Him. I've seen Him take a man who'd been horribly disfigured in a fire and give him skin like a child, including a new face. I've seen vicious animals grow meek at the mention of Jesus' Name. And I've seen the dead raised...one man in particular had been dead two days, and in that jungle heat, he sure smelled like it.
I know this gives the cessationists fits; when we told some some good friends of ours (Baptists) some of what we've seen over the years, they said obviously it was the devil doing it. When I pointed out these miracles led to large numbers of those same people getting saved, they again attributed it to the devil (better that, I guess, than to admit their theology might need tweaking).
So why don't we see more of these things in the US? I don't know. The only variable might be is in how childlike the faith of these villagers was...compared to our disinclination to believe the fact there's never been a "day of miracles;" only a God of them.
And His word says He changes not.
I really believe you suspensewriter. I think you might be on to something. I also think that God will only heal when HE will get the glory out of it. Just think about it. If someone in America on TV was to heal someone who would get the glory out of that? I think by it happening in secret(not publicized) like that, He gets the glory out of it. Also we in America hear the Gospel pretty regularly TV, Radio etc. The people in those 3rd world countries do not. Just think back when Christ and the Apostles were healing, Christianity was new people didn't have the bible to read and understand, so miracles helped people better understand and follow Him (Christ). Today the people of 3rd world countries are kinda in that same boat. A few questions the man you saw get brought back to life what did he say it was like when he was dead? Also just out curiosity what denomination/belief was the person that was performing these miracles?
< Message edited by AboundinginHisGrace -- 6/3/2008 6:46:11 PM >
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"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 7:29:36 PM
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SuspenseWriter
Posts: 319
Joined: 2/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
A few questions the man you saw get brought back to life what did he say it was like when he was dead? Also just out curiosity what denomination/belief was the person that was performing these miracles?
The dead man was unsaved, and when brought back was so shaken by what he'd seen, he was unable to tell it. Was he in hell? I have no idea. Your second question is a bit harder to answer, as the man who prayed (and I, and most of people we hang with) believe no man has the ability to work miracles; that province is God's and God's alone. But He sometimes chooses human vessels to work His power through.
I've done it myself, laying hands on people when He commands, and have seen Him do some pretty outstanding stuff. But me, or the fellow on our team who God used so mightily? As we say, we couldn't heal a fly of a headache. It's God's glory, and His alone. To say "we" did anything is as silly as a piece of wire glorying when a light bulb is lit; the power company is where the electricity is generated; the wire is merely the conduit.
But I went pretty far afield of your question regarding the team's denomination. We are just plain old non-denominational, full-gospel, Word of Faith Christians, just simple enough to take Him at his word--like big kids, I suppose. But for what it's worth, my wife and attend a local Vineyard fellowship.
< Message edited by SuspenseWriter -- 6/3/2008 7:42:43 PM >
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 9:43:54 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 2742
Joined: 4/13/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
So you are saying you can perform a miracle without it being God's Will, just because you have faith
not what I said tat tall.
in fact you have totally lost me a-i-H-g
anything apart from the will of God is not faith (in God) at all. quite the opposite......like an oxymoronic phrase.
do you remember what happened to the seven sons of Sceva? (Acts 19)
Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Joh 14:23 "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
Joh 16:13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
**************Do you see the pattern here? **************
If it's not on the inside, it won't be on the outside... and if it isn't on the outside it is NOT on the inside.
you are talking about "one's" own initiative. and I am talking about walking by the Spirit.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 10:58:45 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 184
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
A few questions the man you saw get brought back to life what did he say it was like when he was dead? Also just out curiosity what denomination/belief was the person that was performing these miracles?
The dead man was unsaved, and when brought back was so shaken by what he'd seen, he was unable to tell it. Was he in hell? I have no idea. Your second question is a bit harder to answer, as the man who prayed (and I, and most of people we hang with) believe no man has the ability to work miracles; that province is God's and God's alone. But He sometimes chooses human vessels to work His power through.
I've done it myself, laying hands on people when He commands, and have seen Him do some pretty outstanding stuff. But me, or the fellow on our team who God used so mightily? As we say, we couldn't heal a fly of a headache. It's God's glory, and His alone. To say "we" did anything is as silly as a piece of wire glorying when a light bulb is lit; the power company is where the electricity is generated; the wire is merely the conduit.
But I went pretty far afield of your question regarding the team's denomination. We are just plain old non-denominational, full-gospel, Word of Faith Christians, just simple enough to take Him at his word--like big kids, I suppose. But for what it's worth, my wife and attend a local Vineyard fellowship.
Oh, I of course know its from God. I should have worded it a little better such as "Who did God use to perform this miracle". I know that all the power comes from God. I was just wondering who He used is all. Thanks so much for your input. :)
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/3/2008 11:01:07 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 184
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doer
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
So you are saying you can perform a miracle without it being God's Will, just because you have faith
not what I said tat tall.
in fact you have totally lost me a-i-H-g
anything apart from the will of God is not faith (in God) at all. quite the opposite......like an oxymoronic phrase.
do you remember what happened to the seven sons of Sceva? (Acts 19)
Joh 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Joh 14:23 "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
Joh 16:13 "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
**************Do you see the pattern here? **************
If it's not on the inside, it won't be on the outside... and if it isn't on the outside it is NOT on the inside.
you are talking about "one's" own initiative. and I am talking about walking by the Spirit.
Ok cool, I think we just misunderstood one another. I love you man for standing on the word of God. May God bless your life and use you to His fullest.
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/4/2008 12:37:14 AM
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Miril
Posts: 117
Joined: 5/28/2008
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quote:
Oh, I of course know its from God. I should have worded it a little better such as "Who did God use to perform this miracle". I know that all the power comes from God. I was just wondering who He used is all.
Isn't it amazing the people he uses to perform miracles and/or show the world that the word is truth?
I bet most if not all of the people he has used in history weren't as bad as Satan made them appear.
_____________________________
Proverbs 15
3 The eyes of the LORD are in every place, Keeping watch on the evil and the good.
God Bless.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/4/2008 8:55:16 PM
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gmc4Jesus
Posts: 213
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
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I have often questioned some of the emphasis on the Holy Spirit "power", especially when all of the focus seems to be on healing miracles.
I just heard a minister proclaim that while preaching in Africa, he prayed for a blind girl and she not only received her sight, but she had been deaf prior to this and she heard him tell her to walk down some steps that she couldn't see prior to his praying.
While I believe that a lot of "prayers for healing" don't produce the instant results, I cannot discount all such prayers. (By the way, this same minister prayed for people in the room and, although three or four claimed that their pain had gone away, a lot who had raised their had for some issue did not get their "healing".)
Bottom line, I don't know what to make of all of this. I believe that God still works miracles today and that some of those miracles are in the realm of healing. Sometimes He works through a "faith healer", but often times, He works through someone who is not supposedly so gifted.
I have also observed that the real POWER that they Holy Spirit gives us is the power to recognize temptation before it becomes sin and resist that temptation without falling. In my opinion, the power to not sin is far greater and more significant than all of the healings put together.
May God put His Holy Spirit deep inside you and may that Spirit guide you in the ways of Jesus Christ.
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Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/4/2008 9:40:59 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 310
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have a question. Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc. I am not talking about the people that fake heal, I mean really heal. Do we as Christians have that authority? Were the Apostles and Jesus the only ones who had this authority? I do not find any other mention of anyone else doing this other than the apostles. And apostles can't exist now so do we have authority to do this? and if so why can't anyone?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians 4_32
As far as I know, only the Apostles and Christ performed those miracles, but some people claim that the gifts didn't cease until the time of Consantine.
Verifiable miracles such as REAL healing and raising people from the dead have been recorded well after the time of Constantine. Smith Wigglesworth is a great example for the 19-20th century, even earlier you might look up Benedict of Nursia. The miracles of Benedict are probably at the least on par with those in the Bible-from fusing a WOODEN tray that had been broken in two pieces to raising people from the dead AND curing leprosy, Benedict did it all (and it is well recorded per accepted historical standards).
IF these two examples alone show that it's possible that miracles are still possible, then the question of why not in this era is all the more relevant. I think it's key to look at the lives of those who were able to perform miracles of this order. You tend to notice similar traits and THAT I believe is the key to maturing to that level of spiritual power. Unfortunately, what it appears to require is too high of a price for many Christians today (myself included I'm ashamed to say). That's not to say that there is a formula (fast two days and call me in the morning to get total spiritual healing power), but it does go to say that in order to access the power of the Holy Spirit, one must at least make an effort to draw near to God (not that doing so will automatically mean that God grants that power) in a way that very few are willing or able to do.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/7/2008 11:51:06 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have a question. Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc. I am not talking about the people that fake heal, I mean really heal. Do we as Christians have that authority? Were the Apostles and Jesus the only ones who had this authority? I do not find any other mention of anyone else doing this other than the apostles. And apostles can't exist now so do we have authority to do this? and if so why can't anyone?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians 4_32
As far as I know, only the Apostles and Christ performed those miracles, but some people claim that the gifts didn't cease until the time of Consantine.
Verifiable miracles such as REAL healing and raising people from the dead have been recorded well after the time of Constantine. Smith Wigglesworth is a great example for the 19-20th century, even earlier you might look up Benedict of Nursia. The miracles of Benedict are probably at the least on par with those in the Bible-from fusing a WOODEN tray that had been broken in two pieces to raising people from the dead AND curing leprosy, Benedict did it all (and it is well recorded per accepted historical standards).
IF these two examples alone show that it's possible that miracles are still possible, then the question of why not in this era is all the more relevant. I think it's key to look at the lives of those who were able to perform miracles of this order. You tend to notice similar traits and THAT I believe is the key to maturing to that level of spiritual power. Unfortunately, what it appears to require is too high of a price for many Christians today (myself included I'm ashamed to say). That's not to say that there is a formula (fast two days and call me in the morning to get total spiritual healing power), but it does go to say that in order to access the power of the Holy Spirit, one must at least make an effort to draw near to God (not that doing so will automatically mean that God grants that power) in a way that very few are willing or able to do.
I don't quite understand what your saying. Are you saying you have to get to some level of spiritual maturity before God will use you to carry out His will? If so can you show me scripture to back that up? We have all the Holy Spirit we will ever have once we get saved. We don't pray for more of the Holy Spirit etc. But if we have sins in our life we are not filled with the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit is still there. Our pastor put it in these terms. He gave everyone a glove and said ball your hand into a fist and put it in the glove. Then he asked is your whole hand in the glove, then asked is the glove filled (obviously not). Then he said open your hand and put it into the glove, and asked is it filled (obviously it is). The same amount of hand (Holy Spirit) is still there you are just not filled. You are offending the Holy Spirit and until you confess/repent your sins that are in your life you don't have the power of the Holy Spirit, even though it is still there.
< Message edited by AboundinginHisGrace -- 6/8/2008 12:00:53 AM >
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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