RE: There He Goes Again (Full Version)

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Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 7:46:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

Liz,

BLT is NOT the gospel and is an abhorrent theology. LT rejects JC as the only savior of mankind and has the government "saving" people by liberating them from poverty. Crosswalk has separate threads about BLT and LT. BLT is just LT's evil twin.

Yes, Bill Ayers is "mainstream" only due to the fact liberal inteligencia has become mainstream. I assume the University of Wisconsin is a bastion of free-thought and welcomes conservative input. NOT

Barry, went to Trinity b/c it was politically expedient. Barry went to Bill to seek his blessings b/c it was politically expedient. Barry said that he couldn't disown Wright more than his racist grandmother he thought he was being politically expedient. When is become clear he had to dump Wright he threw him under the bus because it was politically expedient, He now resigns from Trinity because it is politically expedient

You say you are an “independent” voter. If this is true, Howard Dean is the head of the RNC


colliefan,

Please do not put words into my mouth - I am an independent voter. I lean towards Obama for very good reasons - I don't get my news from blogs like you do.

Peace and God bless,



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 7:49:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

quote:

ORIGINAL: saved9201

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

The real Obama is hard to cover-up

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/


So?

Do you really think this new "revelation" is going to change anything?
Other than give the Flame Obama Network, (Fox) some cover for the McClellan fiasco.

- Julius


No doubt. I'm beginning to believe this entire 'Election 2008' thread should be called 'Obama Watch' because that's exactly what it is: let's analyze every minute of his existence and try to shred it to pieces.

But, it is transparent to anyone who is not biased...it's amusing in a very sad way. It makes it all that more apparent that the right fears Obama because of how intelligent he is.

Peace and God bless,


Intelligent? The man sat in an apostate church for 20 years under a person preaching a personal gospel... As well he can talk about the love of Christ and support for abortion in the same interview... Not to mention his unbiblical support for the gay agenda. Those points alone speak volumes of his lack of reading comprehension…

John


SovereignIsHe,

Let me guess - you don't like Obama?

Well, I don't think the Republicans do all that much better on abortion - I have argued this many times here, and that is my humble opinion. I refuse to vote for someone that thinks Bushs policy to go to war with Iraq was correct, and that Bush's current policy in Iraq is correct.

Peace and God bless,



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 7:55:24 AM)

quote:

It makes it all that more apparent that the right fears Obama because of how intelligent he is.


quote:

He sounds inteligent in front of a tele-promter, but when pressed on issues he gets frustrated and upset. The right fears him b/c is is so far left.


quote:

I respectfully disagree. I believe he is the most articulate politician in my generation - I would say even more so than Reagan, Clinton. If you don't agree with this, let's agree to disagree.

Peace and God bless,


quote:


The most articulate politician in your generation wouldn’t speak of live people being honored on Memorial Day, a day for those who gave their lives...

John



A minor flub up, SovereignIsHe. I don't see the vets getting mad at him - so they can obviously see this. In fact, I've seen quite the opposite - I've seen them express anger at the conservative bloggers that want to try and paint him in a bad light.

And, I've asked the vets I know if they were mad about this, and they were not - one lives right next to me, another across the street. My father served in Korea (just planted flowers on his grave this weekend, among the Korean vet medallion on his grave), and I highly doubt that he would be offended since he was still alive when Bush declared war on Iraq and was deeply saddened that for the first time in US history, we were launching a war for no reason, as no one struck us. So, pray tell me, why are you so upset about this, when even the vets can see it was a verbal mistake?

I'll be waiting with the popcorn...

Peace and God bless,



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 8:04:40 AM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: Lizahana

Where I'm from, Wisconsin, I am proud that we have the history of being a 'maverick' state, and I know many people here that support Obama. One very classy lady that I know campaigned for him tirelessly by foot.


quote:

Nobody with true class could support a man who champions the murder of unborn children...


I don't think McCain would do any better - you know the person that scores a 66% from nrcl.org - lower than some Democrats; and the person that STILL has not promise he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on SCJ nominees. In fact, I really don't think it matters whom you vote for on a presidential level when it comes to abortion. Republicans, the supposed champions of the pro-life movement: 1) have members that are more pro-choice than some of the Democrats, 2) Republicans have appointed the majority of the SCJ in the last 3 decades and STILL RVW has not been overturned - in fact the highly lauded (by conservatives) SCJ was appointed by Reagan, had the deciding vote to overturn RVW in 92 in Casey v PP, and he did not; 3) Republicans had control of both the executive and legislative branches from 2000-2006 to do what Ron Paul is trying to do right now with HR 2597 (sanctity of life) and they did NOT do anything congressionally to return jurisdiction back to the states on the matter of sanctity of life; something that should be done by the reigning princes of the pro-life movement since going through the judicial arm is PLAINLY NOT working.

quote:

I'm an independent voter. The ONLY issue I agree with Republicans on is that of pro-life - though I believe in allowances for victims of rape, incest, or when the mother's life is endangered, like GWB believes.


quote:

Do you believe the person who committed the rape should be put to death like the poor innocent child?


YES - this is the same stance GWB has by the way. SovereignIsHe - MAYBE YOU could tell a young girl who has been violated by her father in the most violent and disgusting way that she HAS to give birth to her sister - but CERTAINLY NOT me. And, I will not argue this with you - as I am disgusted by anyone that would make a young girl do this.

quote:

I support most of Obama's stances, except, at least to me, his overtly pro-choice stance. On the same note, I don't think this issue matters very much on a presidential level given the fact that the majority of the current SC justices were appointed by republican presidents, and RVW remains intact at the federal level. This is especially given light in the fact that the highly regarded SCJ Kennedy (at least in conservative circles + was appointed by Reagan) had the deciding vote to overturn RVW in 1992, and did not.

So, as an independent voter, I'm leaning towards Obama for the aforementioned reasons.

Peace and God bless,


quote:

Which means you support abortion on demand and the gay agenda...

Where is the peace for the unborn? And is Godgoing to bless abortion on demand and the gay agenda?

John


I don't think McCain would do any better - you know the person that scores a 66% from nrcl.org - lower than some Democrats; and the person that STILL has not promise he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on SCJ nominees. In fact, I really don't think it matters whom you vote for on a presidential level when it comes to abortion. Republicans, the supposed champions of the pro-life movement: 1) have members that are more pro-choice than some of the Democrats, 2) Republicans have appointed the majority of the SCJ in the last 3 decades and STILL RVW has not been overturned - in fact the highly lauded (by conservatives) SCJ was appointed by Reagan, had the deciding vote to overturn RVW in 92 in Casey v PP, and he did not; 3) Republicans had control of both the executive and legislative branches from 2000-2006 to do what Ron Paul is trying to do right now with HR 2597 (sanctity of life) and they did NOT do anything congressionally to return jurisdiction back to the states on the matter of sanctity of life; something that should be done by the reigning princes of the pro-life movement since going through the judicial arm is PLAINLY NOT working.

And, I will not argue with you on the rape issue, SovereignIsHe. Let's agree to disagree.

Peace and God bless,



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 8:11:03 AM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: Lizahana

1) To prevent AIDS, I would definitely say yes


quote:

Supporting one's drug habit is ok so long as prevents AIDS... I believe you'll have a tough time supporting the with the Word of God..


Um, no SovereignIsHe - please at least do me the respect of not putting words in my mouth - is that too much to ask for? I think not... I think those people need to get help. But - if they are not spreading AIDS - wouldn't you say that's a good idea? Or, should we just let the disease run rampat?

quote:

2) I'm against the death penalty, colliefan - I believe God is the only one that knows when you are to die, PERIOD


quote:

Actually God numbers one's day and more than a few times in the bible said the just punishment for murder is death...


Let God take them, I won't. In fact, I think a lifetime in jail with no chance of parole would be worse than death, given all that you hear about prison life.

quote:

oh... And since you believe it's ok for a rape victim to murder the child you do actually believe in the "death penalty"


Again, you may force a girl who's been raped by her father, HAS to give birth to her sister , but I will NOT, I refuse, PERIOD.

quote:

Nice - someone is expressing that they hope the gospel is being preached and you answer with this. Wow...what a Christian-like thing to say...unreal.


quote:

Given what Obama believes it apparent the gospel of Christ isn't preached, and if it is preached he either can't comprehend or doesn't care to pay attention...

John


Let me ask you something, John - did God tell you that what Obama believes is not of the gospel?

Peace and God bless,



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 8:14:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana


And about preaching the gospel - prove it that Obama's church is not preaching the gospel. And by saying that the gospel is not being preached, what are you insinuating, colliefan?

Thank you in advance, Peace and God bless,


Regardless of what is preached Obama isn't a believer... Can't support abortion and gay rights and claim Christ as well... Cannot serve two masters...

John


Hi John,

How do you know this - did God tell you that Obama is not a believer? Otherwise, how would you have such knowledge about this?

And, I was taught much differently than you - I was taught that they ONLY person that can much such claims as you do above is God - NO ONE else can.

Peace and God bless,



rlj -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 8:45:58 AM)

quote:

Regardless of what is preached Obama isn't a believer... Can't support abortion and gay rights and claim Christ as well... Cannot serve two masters...


What of those christians who support Mark Foley and Larry Craig? What of those christians who support Arnold Scwhwarzenegger? (spelling :P) What about those who welcome Laura Bush to come speak at their church when she's pro choice? Not everything Republicans do and support lines up with scripture.



tracydolls -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:15:20 AM)

quote:

Regardless of what is preached Obama isn't a believer... Can't support abortion and gay rights and claim Christ as well... Cannot serve two masters...





Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

That verse alone excludes alot of Christians and alot of these Churches.

And some here on Christianity.com



P31W -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:16:10 AM)

quote:

Regardless of what is preached Obama isn't a believer... Can't support abortion and gay rights and claim Christ as well... Cannot serve two masters...


Obama cannot be a believer because he made a public profession of faith a Jesus and God as taught by the BLT pastors. That Jesus is not the Jesus of scripture.

Just as Mormons teach and professes their faith in a false Jesus. Because they have not placed their fatih in the true Jesus of Scripture they are lost.

The true gospel is not taught at Trinity.

quote:

Can't support abortion and gay rights and claim Christ as well...


This is false. One can place their faith in Jesus Christ and be immature in their understanding of scripture, ability to hear God's voice (Holy Spirit) or simply in rebellion against God's ways.



Leslie_JnJs_mom -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 10:06:42 AM)

I am far more concerned about the fact that Obama would not crack down on gang violence in Chicago because the gang member were black Obama's record If a white republican was a part of a church that had the same ideas as the KKK for 20 years the press would been all over it but since obama is the most liberal the leftist press gives him a free pass. He could have killed a girl and the press would have still loved him.



rlj -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 10:40:10 AM)

quote:

In addition, the ad asks the question, “…can a man so weak in the war on gangs be trusted in the war on terror?”


When I think of the 5+ years of Dubya sending American soldiers to Iraq to stop their gangs and then I ask what has Dubya done about gangs? I remember hearing more then once that the safest LA ever was in the last 30 years was after the riots when the Guard troops took over.



ljmac -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 1:35:40 PM)

I'd give the Obama some slack with the uncle title if he wasn't so casual with the other facts of the story. Auschwitz is an important place of much historical significance. Obama linked his family to this infamous place and it wasn't true.



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 6:32:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ljmac

I'd give the Obama some slack with the uncle title if he wasn't so casual with the other facts of the story. Auschwitz is an important place of much historical significance. Obama linked his family to this infamous place and it wasn't true.


You didn't give Obama any slack, ljmac. You said ,"Nothing about his account was true." This statement of yours, of course, is wrong. Even the veterans have backed Obama's account, saying the only thing he got wrong was the name of the concentration camp - and some are not too happy with the conservative bloggers that are trying to make him out too be the bad one; making him out to be a liar, when he is not.

Peace and God bless,



CherishedbyGod -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 6:57:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

making him out to be a liar, when he is not.

Peace and God bless,


He may not be a liar but he is the greatest deceiver I have seen in my lifetime (which is, essentially, lying) God will not be mocked. This man is no Christian!



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:31:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

making him out to be a liar, when he is not.

Peace and God bless,


He may not be a liar but he is the greatest deceiver I have seen in my lifetime (which is, essentially, lying) God will not be mocked. This man is no Christian!


Well, by deceiver, you must mean to mislead. Regarding Obama, I don't know what you mean, since a lot of what has been produced on this thread, IMHO, is from blogs, political think tanks.

On this note, I think the Bush administration mislead us into going to war with Iraq.

Still, as much as I disagree with the Bush administration, there is in NO way I can judge them as being Christians or not - there is ABSOLUTELY only one person that can do this, and He is God - JMHO. And if you disagree - let's just agree to disagree.

Thanks, Peace and God bless,



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:35:15 PM)

quote:

Regardless of what is preached Obama isn't a believer... Can't support abortion and gay rights and claim Christ as well... Cannot serve two masters...


quote:

Obama cannot be a believer because he made a public profession of faith a Jesus and God as taught by the BLT pastors. That Jesus is not the Jesus of scripture.

Just as Mormons teach and professes their faith in a false Jesus. Because they have not placed their fatih in the true Jesus of Scripture they are lost.

The true gospel is not taught at Trinity.


Just out curiosity - because I am definitely at the 'immature' understanding of scripture, how do you know that "Obama cannot be a believer because he made a public profession of faith a Jesus and God as taught by the BLT pastors. That Jesus is not the Jesus of scripture." ?

Thank you in advance, Peace and God bless,



SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:36:44 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: Lizahana

SovereignIsHe,

Let me guess - you don't like Obama?


Of course not... He's pro killing unborn children and pro gay... And... Somehow he claims to be a Christian.... Which should puzzle you since you claim he's really smart... One doesn't have to be a great theologian to figure out that things like abortion and the gay agenda are not compatible with Christian walk, which means Obama has some serious comprehension issues.


quote:

Well, I don't think the Republicans do all that much better on abortion - I have argued this many times here, and that is my humble opinion.


I don't think they do either, but it is better... There are far greater people on the right who actually make attempts to help the unborn than those on the left, who for the most champion the cause.

quote:

I refuse to vote for someone that thinks Bushs policy to go to war with Iraq was correct, and that Bush's current policy in Iraq is correct.


And that makes it ok for a Christian to vote for abortion and the gay agenda?

John



SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:40:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana

A minor flub up, SovereignIsHe. I don't see the vets getting mad at him - so they can obviously see this. In fact, I've seen quite the opposite - I've seen them express anger at the conservative bloggers that want to try and paint him in a bad light.


There is not such thing as a minor flub for "most articulate politician in my generation"


quote:


So, pray tell me, why are you so upset about this, when even the vets can see it was a verbal mistake?



Upset? Please spare me the hyperbole... You made the claim he is the most "most articulate politician in my generation" and I simply pointed out some very stupid remarks...

John



SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:45:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana


How do you know this - did God tell you that Obama is not a believer? Otherwise, how would you have such knowledge about this?


Because he supports mass murder of the unborn and the homosexual agenda... He gathers vote with the blood of the unborn and the sinful lifestyle of homosexuals...

If a homosexual can't be a Christian it stands to reason that anyone that supports the lifestyle cannot either, as well as abortion... What's next pedophiles for Christ?


quote:

And, I was taught much differently than you - I was taught that they ONLY person that can much such claims as you do above is God - NO ONE else can.


That's too bad... I was taught to judge all things... That is why I didn't sit in a aposte church for 20 years like Mr. Obama... People are taught accept whatever people say and that is why things like TBN and Benny Hinn flourish...

John



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:47:40 PM)

quote:

Well, I don't think the Republicans do all that much better on abortion - I have argued this many times here, and that is my humble opinion.


quote:

I don't think they do either, but it is better... There are far greater people on the right who actually make attempts to help the unborn than those on the left, who for the most champion the cause.


Well John, at a presidential level, I disagree because <as I've stated on other threads>:

I don't think McCain would do any better - you know the person that scores a 66% from nrcl.org - lower than some Democrats; and the person that STILL has not promise he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on SCJ nominees. In fact, I really don't think it matters whom you vote for on a presidential level when it comes to abortion. Republicans, the supposed champions of the pro-life movement: 1) have members that are more pro-choice than some of the Democrats, 2) Republicans have appointed the majority of the SCJ in the last 3 decades and STILL RVW has not been overturned - in fact the highly lauded (by conservatives) SCJ was appointed by Reagan, had the deciding vote to overturn RVW in 92 in Casey v PP, and he did not; 3) Republicans had control of both the executive and legislative branches from 2000-2006 to do what Ron Paul is trying to do right now with HR 2597 (sanctity of life) and they did NOT do anything congressionally to return jurisdiction back to the states on the matter of sanctity of life; something that should be done by the reigning princes of the pro-life movement since going through the judicial arm is PLAINLY NOT working.

quote:

I refuse to vote for someone that thinks Bushs policy to go to war with Iraq was correct, and that Bush's current policy in Iraq is correct.


quote:

And that makes it ok for a Christian to vote for abortion and the gay agenda?

John


Well, because of the aforementioned post, which I know you will include in any of your posts, yes.

Peace and God bless,



SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:47:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj

quote:

Regardless of what is preached Obama isn't a believer... Can't support abortion and gay rights and claim Christ as well... Cannot serve two masters...


What of those christians who support Mark Foley and Larry Craig? What of those christians who support Arnold Scwhwarzenegger? (spelling :P) What about those who welcome Laura Bush to come speak at their church when she's pro choice? Not everything Republicans do and support lines up with scripture.


What about them? What do they have to do with Mr. Obama's support for VERY obvious things that conflict with God's word?

For the record... I am NO fan of the Republicans...

John



SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:52:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W


quote:

Can't support abortion and gay rights and claim Christ as well...


This is false. One can place their faith in Jesus Christ and be immature in their understanding of scripture, ability to hear God's voice (Holy Spirit) or simply in rebellion against God's ways.


I disagree... The above denies the change of heart, and if taken to it's conclusion, you would active homosexuals as Christians...

John



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:53:00 PM)

quote:


A minor flub up, SovereignIsHe. I don't see the vets getting mad at him - so they can obviously see this. In fact, I've seen quite the opposite - I've seen them express anger at the conservative bloggers that want to try and paint him in a bad light.


quote:

There is not such thing as a minor flub for "most articulate politician in my generation"


Well - I stand by my words.

quote:

So, pray tell me, why are you so upset about this, when even the vets can see it was a verbal mistake?



quote:

Upset? Please spare me the hyperbole... You made the claim he is the most "most articulate politician in my generation" and I simply pointed out some very stupid remarks...

John


Seemed like it to me - if you were not, my apologies.

Peace and God bless,



Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 9:56:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lizahana


How do you know this - did God tell you that Obama is not a believer? Otherwise, how would you have such knowledge about this?


Because he supports mass murder of the unborn and the homosexual agenda... He gathers vote with the blood of the unborn and the sinful lifestyle of homosexuals...

If a homosexual can't be a Christian it stands to reason that anyone that supports the lifestyle cannot either, as well as abortion... What's next pedophiles for Christ?


quote:

And, I was taught much differently than you - I was taught that they ONLY person that can much such claims as you do above is God - NO ONE else can.


That's too bad... I was taught to judge all things... That is why I didn't sit in a aposte church for 20 years like Mr. Obama... People are taught accept whatever people say and that is why things like TBN and Benny Hinn flourish...

John


Well then, I plainly do not understand you and let's agree to disagree.

I am far beneath God to do the judging for Him.

Peace and God bless,



SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/2/2008 10:03:55 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: Lizahana

I don't think McCain would do any better - you know the person that scores a 66% from nrcl.org - lower than some Democrats; and the person that STILL has not promise he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on SCJ nominees. In fact, I really don't think it matters whom you vote for on a presidential level when it comes to abortion.



Ok… So by all means vote for the person who without a doubt supports the right of certain people to commit murder... But I suggest you stop nagging on Bush about the war and deaths associated with it for the sake of being consistent. Especially given the huge disparity in regards to the loss of life given the about 3500 unborn children are murdered daily in the United States… You know, the land of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness…




quote:

quote:

And that makes it ok for a Christian to vote for abortion and the gay agenda?



Well, because of the aforementioned post, which I know you will include in any of your posts, yes.




Ok... Do you have any support for one to support things the bible cleary calls evil.... That being murder and homosexuality... How does a Christian evade sinning by supporting what is sinful with clear forethought?


John



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