RE: There He Goes Again

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Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 7:33:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana I will only say this one more time - since, as expected you did not post all of my post: I really don't think it matters whom you vote for on a presidential level when it comes to abortion. Republicans, the supposed champions of the pro-life movement: 1) have members that are more pro-choice than some of the Democrats, 2) Republicans have appointed the majority of the SCJ in the last 3 decades and STILL RVW has not been overturned - in fact the highly lauded (by conservatives) SCJ was appointed by Reagan, had the deciding vote to overturn RVW in 92 in Casey v PP, and he did not; 3) Republicans had control of both the executive and legislative branches from 2000-2006 to do what Ron Paul is trying to do right now with HR 2597 (sanctity of life) and they did NOT do anything congressionally to return jurisdiction back to the states on the matter of sanctity of life; something that should be done by the reigning princes of the pro-life movement since going through the judicial arm is PLAINLY NOT working. Do you understand what I am saying here? I do not believe that it makes a difference whom you vote for at a presidential level especially since McCain STILL has not promise he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on SCJ nominees. And, John, I consider the war in Iraq wrong - that 4,000+ of our best and brightest are dead and 84,000-91,000 civilians are dead - Obama wants us out right away and McCain does not. You know, as an independent voter, I said I was leaning towards Obama. Your posts only reenforced this. The above doesn't answer the following... Ok... Do you have any support for one to support things the bible cleary calls evil.... That being murder and homosexuality... How does a Christian evade sinning by supporting what is sinful with clear forethought? Btw... Can't blame me for your vote... John Well, yes, John, the above does answer that question. McCain has NOT promised he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on SCJ nominees; so there is absolutely no promise of RVW being overturned while he is in office. In fact, even when conservative justices like SCJ Kennedy was appointed, he had the deciding vote to overturn RVW in 1992, and did NOT. In fact the majority of the SCJ were appointed by Republican presidents in the last 3 decades; and has RVW been overturned? NO. What makes you think that I am going to waste my vote on the only issue that I agree with Republicans on - that of being pro-life (in the same way GWB considers himself pro-life: that it should be legal ONLY in cases of rape, incest or when the mother's life is endangerd) - when the Republicans as presidents, do not appoint SCJ that overturn RVW through the judicial arm; when McCain has not promised he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on SCJ? How would this be different than a Democrat president on the matter of oveturning RVW? Which, by the way, would NOT eliminate abortions - just so you know... Peace and God bless,

Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 7:37:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana How do you know this - did God tell you that Obama is not a believer? Otherwise, how would you have such knowledge about this? Because he supports mass murder of the unborn and the homosexual agenda... He gathers vote with the blood of the unborn and the sinful lifestyle of homosexuals... If a homosexual can't be a Christian it stands to reason that anyone that supports the lifestyle cannot either, as well as abortion... What's next pedophiles for Christ? quote: And, I was taught much differently than you - I was taught that they ONLY person that can much such claims as you do above is God - NO ONE else can. That's too bad... I was taught to judge all things... That is why I didn't sit in a aposte church for 20 years like Mr. Obama... People are taught accept whatever people say and that is why things like TBN and Benny Hinn flourish... John Well then, I plainly do not understand you and let's agree to disagree. I am far beneath God to do the judging for Him. You judged a baby worthy of death because the father was a raptist... John No - I am not judging the girl who was violently raped by her father, John. Peace and God bless, I didn't say you judged her... You said it's ok to abort the unborn children of rape... Do you at least believe the rapist should be put to death like the innocent unborn child? John No I don't believe the rapist should be put to death. And no, I will not force a young girl, who was raped by her father, to give birth to her sister. I can't do it. And if you disagree with this, John, then let's agree to disagree. And if you still wish to ask questions because you don't understand my position, maybe George W Bush could explain it better than I can, since he holds the same view as I do - so maybe you should write to him. And since his wife is pro-choice, maybe you should ask her the same questions as well. Peace and God bless,

P31W -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 9:16:52 AM)
quote: Just out of curiosity, did you ask Obama if he believes these words? He told us he ascribes to that theology in his book. Do you believe him? quote: I guess he has left Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago anyway... But has he denounced the theology that he has ascribed to for 20 years?

inthysite -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 9:48:41 AM)
quote: How does a Christian evade sinning by supporting what is sinful with clear forethought? Actually Christians support abortion all the time, either knowingly or unknowingly. Companies that support Planned Parenthood Allstate insurance company Chevron Texaco Comcast DuPont eBay and PayPal Four Seasons Hotels Marriott OSI Restaurants (which includes Outback Steakhouse) Sears and Kmart Sonic Abode software Wachovia Nike Time Warner Bank of America CIGNA Walt Disney Johnson & Johnson Wells Fargo, Whole Foods Nationwide insurance and the list goes on.....

tracydolls -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 10:04:36 AM)
Does anyone have the stats on WHO gets abortions?

rnershigh -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 10:33:19 AM)
IMO, Obama is no different than Clinton or McCain and the fact he's trying to come across as a fresh, new person not affected by the Washington establishment and is not a politican is a lie. He's deceiving people in thinking he doesn't operate how all politicians operate. I don't like any of the candidates. I think this election is a joke, and either way we're getting a mediocre President in any of the candidates. But I don't like Obama most of all because he's conning everyone in thinking he's this great uniter and bringer of good change. Whatever dude, that's what every politician says. That they will make a difference, they will get this or that done. It's all a line so they can get into office and get the power. Power corrupts and Obama is no different than any other politician.

saved9201 -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 6:30:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: inthysite quote: How does a Christian evade sinning by supporting what is sinful with clear forethought? Actually Christians support abortion all the time, either knowingly or unknowingly. Companies that support Planned Parenthood Allstate insurance company Chevron Texaco Comcast DuPont eBay and PayPal Four Seasons Hotels Marriott OSI Restaurants (which includes Outback Steakhouse) Sears and Kmart Sonic Abode software Wachovia Nike Time Warner Bank of America CIGNA Walt Disney Johnson & Johnson Wells Fargo, Whole Foods Nationwide insurance and the list goes on..... I posted a similar list some time ago and you know the answer I got? "Well, I don't know about those companies, but I know about the democrats". But you know about these companies now, I responded. "Yes, but nobody else knows about these companies cause they don't go around bragging about murdering babies like the democrats. Everybody knows the democrats murder babies." I finally gave up. You will too, cause you will never get the most diehard pro-lifer to give up Wal~Mart (yeah, them too). - Julius

SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 10:45:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Well, yes, John, the above does answer that question. Posting that there is no viable difference between the Democrats and Republicans in regards to abortion doesn't answer the question in regards to the supporting things that the bible clearly says is evil... quote: What makes you think that I am going to waste my vote on the only issue that I agree with Republicans on - that of being pro-life (in the same way GWB considers himself pro-life: that it should be legal ONLY in cases of rape, incest or when the mother's life is endangerd) - He's not pro-life... You can't be pro-life and believe the child of a rape is worthy of death... quote: How would this be different than a Democrat president on the matter of oveturning RVW? Which, by the way, would NOT eliminate abortions - just so you know... Abortions increased after RvW so your opinion doesn't hold much water... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/4/2008 10:54:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana No I don't believe the rapist should be put to death. And no, I will not force a young girl, who was raped by her father, to give birth to her sister. I can't do it. What did the innocent child do to deserve the death penalty? quote: And if you disagree with this, John, then let's agree to disagree. And if you still wish to ask questions because you don't understand my position, I understand your position/contradictions... quote: maybe George W Bush could explain it better than I can, since he holds the same view as I do - so maybe you should write to him. And since his wife is pro-choice, maybe you should ask her the same questions as well. I really don't care what Mr. Bush or his wife believes... I didn't vote for him, nor his father... I don't even know why you mention him or his wife... John

Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/5/2008 7:02:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Well, yes, John, the above does answer that question. Posting that there is no viable difference between the Democrats and Republicans in regards to abortion doesn't answer the question in regards to the supporting things that the bible clearly says is evil... quote: What makes you think that I am going to waste my vote on the only issue that I agree with Republicans on - that of being pro-life (in the same way GWB considers himself pro-life: that it should be legal ONLY in cases of rape, incest or when the mother's life is endangerd) - He's not pro-life... You can't be pro-life and believe the child of a rape is worthy of death... quote: How would this be different than a Democrat president on the matter of oveturning RVW? Which, by the way, would NOT eliminate abortions - just so you know... Abortions increased after RvW so your opinion doesn't hold much water... John Well, you are just ignoring what I'm saying (that it does NOT matter whom you vote for at a presidential level given the reasons I gave, which you neglected to post, and answer), so I'll return the favor... Peace and God bless,

Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/5/2008 7:07:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana No I don't believe the rapist should be put to death. And no, I will not force a young girl, who was raped by her father, to give birth to her sister. I can't do it. What did the innocent child do to deserve the death penalty? quote: And if you disagree with this, John, then let's agree to disagree. And if you still wish to ask questions because you don't understand my position, I understand your position/contradictions... quote: maybe George W Bush could explain it better than I can, since he holds the same view as I do - so maybe you should write to him. And since his wife is pro-choice, maybe you should ask her the same questions as well. I really don't care what Mr. Bush or his wife believes... I didn't vote for him, nor his father... I don't even know why you mention him or his wife... John John - You seem to want to argue, even though I have asked to agree to disagree, because we obviously are not going to change each others mind. So, I then suggested that you take it up with the President and leader of the Republicans who has the same view as I, and his wife, who is pro-choice. This all seems pretty crysto-clear to me, John. What part don't you understand? Peace and God bless,

tracydolls -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/5/2008 7:09:17 AM)
quote: You will too, cause you will never get the most diehard pro-lifer to give up Wal~Mart [sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif] I too am a victim of Walmart's cheap prices. If you look at the history of some of these companies, you would cry. I used to try to not shop where I thought there was a problem, till I found out they all have problems!

ljmac -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/5/2008 6:02:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls Does anyone have the stats on WHO gets abortions? 100% of the victims are babies. If they were adult women, you wouldn't be wishy washy. Blacks are about 17% or so of the population, but about one third of abortion victims are black. About 1,500 black children are aborted daily. Margaret Sanger had her Negro Project. Recently PP got caught cheerfully accepting money from people who plainly said that they wanted to abort black children. "Several years ago, when 17,000 aborted babies were found in a dumpster outside a pathology laboratory in Los, Angeles, California, some 12-15,000 were observed to be black." --Erma Clardy Craven (deceased) Social Worker and Civil Rights Leader Since Death Roe 13 million blacks have been killed by abortion. Only five million have died from cancer, AIDS, heart disease, accidents and other violent crime during that time. black genocide with help from BHO

SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/5/2008 9:23:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Well, yes, John, the above does answer that question. Posting that there is no viable difference between the Democrats and Republicans in regards to abortion doesn't answer the question in regards to the supporting things that the bible clearly says is evil... quote: What makes you think that I am going to waste my vote on the only issue that I agree with Republicans on - that of being pro-life (in the same way GWB considers himself pro-life: that it should be legal ONLY in cases of rape, incest or when the mother's life is endangerd) - He's not pro-life... You can't be pro-life and believe the child of a rape is worthy of death... quote: How would this be different than a Democrat president on the matter of oveturning RVW? Which, by the way, would NOT eliminate abortions - just so you know... Abortions increased after RvW so your opinion doesn't hold much water... John Well, you are just ignoring what I'm saying (that it does NOT matter whom you vote for at a presidential level given the reasons I gave, which you neglected to post, and answer), so I'll return the favor... You're just avoiding dealing with the biblical consequences aspects of this subject... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/5/2008 9:28:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana John - You seem to want to argue, even though I have asked to agree to disagree, because we obviously are not going to change each others mind. I am not trying to change your mind; I am using your contradictions to make points... quote: So, I then suggested that you take it up with the President and leader of the Republicans who has the same view as I, and his wife, who is pro-choice. This all seems pretty crysto-clear to me, John. What part don't you understand? I undertand that President and his wife aren't on this forum and I don't care to discuss the matter with them... John

Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/6/2008 7:11:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana Well, yes, John, the above does answer that question. Posting that there is no viable difference between the Democrats and Republicans in regards to abortion doesn't answer the question in regards to the supporting things that the bible clearly says is evil... quote: What makes you think that I am going to waste my vote on the only issue that I agree with Republicans on - that of being pro-life (in the same way GWB considers himself pro-life: that it should be legal ONLY in cases of rape, incest or when the mother's life is endangerd) - He's not pro-life... You can't be pro-life and believe the child of a rape is worthy of death... quote: How would this be different than a Democrat president on the matter of oveturning RVW? Which, by the way, would NOT eliminate abortions - just so you know... Abortions increased after RvW so your opinion doesn't hold much water... John Well, you are just ignoring what I'm saying (that it does NOT matter whom you vote for at a presidential level given the reasons I gave, which you neglected to post, and answer), so I'll return the favor... You're just avoiding dealing with the biblical consequences aspects of this subject... John And you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that McCain has not promised to use an anti-abortion litmus test for judicial nominees. Coupled with the Republicans dismal history on appointing SCJ nominees, there is no difference between at a presidential level. I'm saying that the Republicans have not reversed RVW with the majority of SCJ appointments in the last 3 decades, and John McCain has not promised he'd use anti-abortion litmus test - so, as far as reversing RVW thru judicial appointments, there would be no difference between McCain and Obama in the upcoming election - UNLESS McCain says he'd use an anti-abortion litmus test on judicial nominees. Otherwise, tell me how they would be different, John, when it comes to reversing RVW thru the judicial arm. Thank you in advance, Peace and God bless,

Lizahana -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/6/2008 7:14:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana John - You seem to want to argue, even though I have asked to agree to disagree, because we obviously are not going to change each others mind. I am not trying to change your mind; I am using your contradictions to make points... quote: So, I then suggested that you take it up with the President and leader of the Republicans who has the same view as I, and his wife, who is pro-choice. This all seems pretty crysto-clear to me, John. What part don't you understand? I undertand that President and his wife aren't on this forum and I don't care to discuss the matter with them... John John, I will not force a young girl to give birth to her sister. Her father raped her - the baby was concieved out of violence. Go ahead and call it whatever you want, contradictory - whatever makes you happy. I still will not force her. And btw, I am not the one getting the abortion, either. If I was raped, I'm pretty sure that I would not get an abortion either. I just cannot tell a young girl who was raped by her father that she must give birth to her sister. I just will not do it -again, call it want you want, I don't really care. Peace and God bless,

tracydolls -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/6/2008 7:26:02 AM)
quote: Does anyone have the stats on WHO gets abortions? 100% of the victims are babies. If they were adult women, you wouldn't be wishy washy. Wishy washy, never . Asking a question? quote: Margaret Sanger had her Negro Project. Recently PP got caught cheerfully accepting money from people who plainly said that they wanted to abort black children. Linked the actual video in :matter of color" thread a week ago. quote: Since Death Roe 13 million blacks have been killed by abortion. Only five million have died from cancer, AIDS, heart disease, accidents and other violent crime during that time. I know the number for blacks, I want to see the numbers for whites and a breakdown of those. What states, what cities do the most, least. But this is where you and I part I think. It is America that is allowing this. Just like gay marriage. This great country has that legally. How can I fix that? Or a president? I'm willing.

IonMoon -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/6/2008 10:00:54 AM)
My own opinion on abortion is that trying to prevent it just makes the other side more rabidly hang on to their "right." I would rather, as Obama has proposed, focus my energies on finding out why women get abortions and try to prevent unwanted pregnancies and have people in a position (financially, socially, medically, psychologically) that they don't feel trapped when they do become pregnant. So, while I am pro-life, I am not for abortion legislation. I think as Christians we should be fighting abortion, I just don't think it should be in political arenas. Tara P

ljmac -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/6/2008 11:49:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp My own opinion on abortion is that trying to prevent it just makes the other side more rabidly hang on to their "right." I would rather, as Obama has proposed, focus my energies on finding out why women get abortions and try to prevent unwanted pregnancies and have people in a position (financially, socially, medically, psychologically) that they don't feel trapped when they do become pregnant. So, while I am pro-life, I am not for abortion legislation. I think as Christians we should be fighting abortion, I just don't think it should be in political arenas. Tara P What other forms of murder do you want legal? Obama is a sick man. He believes that it should be legal to suck the brains out of a baby. It's hard to believe that it could get worse, but it does. When he was a state legislator in Illinois he opposed the state's version of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which meant that if an abortion failed to kill the baby, that the living baby had to receive normal medical care.

blue1914 -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/6/2008 11:57:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: saved9201 None of that matters though. The only thing that matters is what hard working white people think. And their primary concern, just like the primary concern of white employees when a new black supervisor is hired, is that a black president is going to favor blacks more than whites. And some of the sermons from that church provides what some would call evidence of that. I'm predicting now that Obama may win his home state of Illinois. And possibly some obscure mountain state like North Dakota. And that's all. -Julius Wow, you finally put into words EXACTLY what I have observed through my 12 years as an African-American in "corporate America" (after seeing several very qualified African-American management professionals undermined in one form or another until their positions were eliminated or they were forced out). I guess we (African Americans) are blessed that our hard working white supervisors don't have that bias (toward other hard working whites that is).

ljmac -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/6/2008 12:17:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tracydolls quote: Does anyone have the stats on WHO gets abortions? 100% of the victims are babies. If they were adult women, you wouldn't be wishy washy. Wishy washy, never . Asking a question? quote: Margaret Sanger had her Negro Project. Recently PP got caught cheerfully accepting money from people who plainly said that they wanted to abort black children. Linked the actual video in :matter of color" thread a week ago. quote: Since Death Roe 13 million blacks have been killed by abortion. Only five million have died from cancer, AIDS, heart disease, accidents and other violent crime during that time. I know the number for blacks, I want to see the numbers for whites and a breakdown of those. What states, what cities do the most, least. But this is where you and I part I think. It is America that is allowing this. Just like gay marriage. This great country has that legally. How can I fix that? Or a president? I'm willing. There are two sources for abortion statistics. There is the Guttmacher (sp?) institute, which belongs to Planned Parenthood, the abortion company. The other is the CDC, the government agency. Both have flaws. Guttmacher relies on voluntary reporting directly from clinics. The CDC relies on voluntary reporting from the states. Some states don't bother to report.

SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/7/2008 3:58:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lizahana And you are refusing to acknowledge the fact that McCain has not promised to use an anti-abortion litmus test for judicial nominees. It doesn't really matter... quote: Coupled with the Republicans dismal history on appointing SCJ nominees, there is no difference between at a presidential level. Ok... So a vote for either party is a vote for abortion, the mass murder of children... Still have to deal with the biblical consequences aspects of this subject... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/7/2008 4:03:43 PM)
quote: John, I will not force a young girl to give birth to her sister. Her father raped her - the baby was concieved out of violence. For the sake of the truth I'll ask if you have any biblical support for this brutal treatment of an uborn child for the sins of his father... quote: Go ahead and call it whatever you want, contradictory - I call what it is... quote: I am not the one getting the abortion, either. If I was raped, I'm pretty sure that I would not get an abortion either. I just cannot tell a young girl who was raped by her father that she must give birth to her sister. I just will not do it -again, call it want you want, I don't really care. Support for murder is the same as murder... John

SovereignIsHe -> RE: There He Goes Again (6/7/2008 4:11:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp My own opinion on abortion is that trying to prevent it just makes the other side more rabidly hang on to their "right." So we should allow people to rob banks in order to remove the desire? quote: I would rather, as Obama has proposed, focus my energies on finding out why women get abortions and try to prevent unwanted pregnancies and have people in a position (financially, socially, medically, psychologically) that they don't feel trapped when they do become pregnant. Why yes, since most of these woman are inflicted with the child like some disease or some act of God...[8\|] People get abortions because they are lazy, selfish, thoughtless, cold, callus, mean, sinful... quote: So, while I am pro-life, I am not for abortion legislation. I think as Christians we should be fighting abortion, I just don't think it should be in political arenas. If you believe abortion(the cold blooded killing of unborn child) is ok in regards to it being legal you cannot be pro-life... It doesn't make sense, it defies logic... You believe it's lawful to murder people who haven't committed an offence worthy of death... I will go out on a limb and guess you don't believe justly convicted murderess should be put to death, yet a unborn child worthy of it for whatever reason those who have abortions see fit... Unbelievable... John

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