Red Heifer or Sin offering (Full Version)

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manichunter -> Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/2/2008 2:21:02 PM)

What Type of Offering was the Cross

Is this a red heifer offering or sin offering? Study the difference between the two and it will lead to some interesting information. It is possibly life changing information that could change our prospective. The sacrifice of Yeshua at the cross was a red heifer offering.
Yeshua was the slain lamb before the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8). He was our sin offering before mankind had the chance to sin. Yahweh cannot fellowship with sinners (2 Cor 6:14). Therefore, He created a means to associate and reach mankind before He created mankind. He knew man would sin and become dead to Him. However, Yeshua decided to breech the gap before creations (Gen 3) as prophesied by Yahweh. The sin offerings offering allowed temporary atonement and momentary forgiveness until a permanent solution could be introduced. A person would offer a sin offering and walk away the same person still in need of a sin offering within minutes. Yahweh was trying to show us symbolic that He had already accomplished. Otherwise, He would have never been able to relate to mankind in our condition and environment of sin. This is how he became our sin offering before the foundation of the world. He stepped down into His own creation that was corrupted by sin which was his initial offering for sin. He offered His person in the form of taking on flesh. So the innocent lamb who knew no sin came and took the same risk confronting mankind. Yeshua as our Bridegroom and kinsman redeemer was our permanent sin offering before creations.

Now let us look at studying the red heifer offering (Num 19:1-22). It was in the fashion of a typical sin offering except it allowed purification and reintroduction back into the community. A person was marked as a member of the community and restored back to their former status. So, the red heifer offering is an offering for sin and much more. It allowed even the stranger to be brought into the camp as a child of God. The cross became mankind’s doorway, back into the camp. The red heifer offered atonement, purification from death, and fellowship into life. It took the sin offering to another level. It literally marked us for a permanent fellowship and brought us into the third creation as sons of God.

Please offer input and critical study to help me further study this issue. My pastor taught this message about a year ago. I just went back to re-study it and share it.
Thanks brothers in Christ.
____________________________________________________________________________



LCannon -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/2/2008 4:29:22 PM)

Probably your pastor was spot on.

"This is an unusual ordinance, and it sounds very strange, but there is a good reason for it. When the children of Israel were on the march and a man sinned, they couldn’t stop right there, put up the tabernacle, and go through the ritual of offering a trespass offering or a sin offering. So what were they to do when a man sinned on the way? They would take the ashes of this heifer, mix those ashes with running water, then with hyssop sprinkle the individual who had sinned. That sounds very strange, doesn’t it? But that was the way God dealt with sin for those people. Let me tell you another strange incident. When our Lord Jesus Christ went into the Upper Room with His disciples, the first thing he did was to get a basin of water and wash the disciples’ feet. Now why did He do that? He tells Simon Peter the reason. “… If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me” (John 13:8). If the Lord Jesus had not washed the feet of Peter, Peter could not have fellowship with Him. He had come from the Father and He was going back to the Father. “Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself”-McGee, J. V. Thru the Bible commentary (electronic ed.)



rcjames -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/2/2008 5:12:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

What Type of Offering was the Cross

Is this a red heifer offering or sin offering? Study the difference between the two and it will lead to some interesting information. It is possibly life changing information that could change our prospective. The sacrifice of Yeshua at the cross was a red heifer offering.
Yeshua was the slain lamb before the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8). He was our sin offering before mankind had the chance to sin. Yahweh cannot fellowship with sinners (2 Cor 6:14). Therefore, He created a means to associate and reach mankind before He created mankind. He knew man would sin and become dead to Him. However, Yeshua decided to breech the gap before creations (Gen 3) as prophesied by Yahweh. The sin offerings offering allowed temporary atonement and momentary forgiveness until a permanent solution could be introduced. A person would offer a sin offering and walk away the same person still in need of a sin offering within minutes. Yahweh was trying to show us symbolic that He had already accomplished. Otherwise, He would have never been able to relate to mankind in our condition and environment of sin. This is how he became our sin offering before the foundation of the world. He stepped down into His own creation that was corrupted by sin which was his initial offering for sin. He offered His person in the form of taking on flesh. So the innocent lamb who knew no sin came and took the same risk confronting mankind. Yeshua as our Bridegroom and kinsman redeemer was our permanent sin offering before creations.

Now let us look at studying the red heifer offering (Num 19:1-22). It was in the fashion of a typical sin offering except it allowed purification and reintroduction back into the community. A person was marked as a member of the community and restored back to their former status. So, the red heifer offering is an offering for sin and much more. It allowed even the stranger to be brought into the camp as a child of God. The cross became mankind’s doorway, back into the camp. The red heifer offered atonement, purification from death, and fellowship into life. It took the sin offering to another level. It literally marked us for a permanent fellowship and brought us into the third creation as sons of God.

Please offer input and critical study to help me further study this issue. My pastor taught this message about a year ago. I just went back to re-study it and share it.
Thanks brothers in Christ.


Well how about studying Hebrews where Christ is declared to by the one offering for all sins.

If you want to be a Jew I guess that is your perrogatory, bus as for me I will continue as a Christian.

And for all the Christinas out there that want to be more Jewish; you cannot out Jew a Jew. So just stop it with all the "I will pleease God more with my Jewism".

Thsnks
RC



JimboFletch -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/2/2008 5:18:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: manichunter

What Type of Offering was the Cross

Is this a red heifer offering or sin offering? Study the difference between the two and it will lead to some interesting information. It is possibly life changing information that could change our prospective. The sacrifice of Yeshua at the cross was a red heifer offering.
Yeshua was the slain lamb before the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8). He was our sin offering before mankind had the chance to sin. Yahweh cannot fellowship with sinners (2 Cor 6:14). Therefore, He created a means to associate and reach mankind before He created mankind. He knew man would sin and become dead to Him. However, Yeshua decided to breech the gap before creations (Gen 3) as prophesied by Yahweh. The sin offerings offering allowed temporary atonement and momentary forgiveness until a permanent solution could be introduced. A person would offer a sin offering and walk away the same person still in need of a sin offering within minutes. Yahweh was trying to show us symbolic that He had already accomplished. Otherwise, He would have never been able to relate to mankind in our condition and environment of sin. This is how he became our sin offering before the foundation of the world. He stepped down into His own creation that was corrupted by sin which was his initial offering for sin. He offered His person in the form of taking on flesh. So the innocent lamb who knew no sin came and took the same risk confronting mankind. Yeshua as our Bridegroom and kinsman redeemer was our permanent sin offering before creations.

Now let us look at studying the red heifer offering (Num 19:1-22). It was in the fashion of a typical sin offering except it allowed purification and reintroduction back into the community. A person was marked as a member of the community and restored back to their former status. So, the red heifer offering is an offering for sin and much more. It allowed even the stranger to be brought into the camp as a child of God. The cross became mankind’s doorway, back into the camp. The red heifer offered atonement, purification from death, and fellowship into life. It took the sin offering to another level. It literally marked us for a permanent fellowship and brought us into the third creation as sons of God.

Please offer input and critical study to help me further study this issue. My pastor taught this message about a year ago. I just went back to re-study it and share it.
Thanks brothers in Christ.


Well how about studying Hebrews where Christ is declared to by the one offering for all sins.

If you want to be a Jew I guess that is your perrogatory, bus as for me I will continue as a Christian.

And for all the Christinas out there that want to be more Jewish; you cannot out Jew a Jew. So just stop it with all the "I will pleease God more with my Jewism".

Thsnks
RC

[sm=thumbsup.gif]



DaveW -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/3/2008 3:16:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

If you want to be a Jew I guess that is your perrogatory, bus as for me I will continue as a Christian.

And for all the Christinas out there that want to be more Jewish; you cannot out Jew a Jew. So just stop it with all the "I will pleease God more with my Jewism".
RC, I saw nothing in the OP that said he wanted to be Jewish. I don't get your comment.



JimboFletch -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/3/2008 4:04:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

If you want to be a Jew I guess that is your perrogatory, bus as for me I will continue as a Christian.

And for all the Christinas out there that want to be more Jewish; you cannot out Jew a Jew. So just stop it with all the "I will pleease God more with my Jewism".
RC, I saw nothing in the OP that said he wanted to be Jewish. I don't get your comment.

Dave, perhaps you are correct. After reading the OPs 10 posts thus far, one might conclude he is recruiting converts rather than desiring to become one.



Lapidoth -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/3/2008 4:24:35 PM)

It's still another angle to see the elephant in total. lol.



JimboFletch -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/3/2008 4:31:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

It's still another angle to see the elephant in total. lol.

I suppose, if elephants shed their skin.
[sm=elephant.gif]



john_mark -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/3/2008 4:42:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

. When the children of Israel were on the march and a man sinned, they couldn’t stop right there, put up the tabernacle, and go through the ritual of offering a trespass offering or a sin offering. So what were they to do when a man sinned on the way? They would take the ashes of this heifer, mix those ashes with running water, then with hyssop sprinkle the individual who had sinned.


i have a question of logistics and pls forgive my ignorance in this area. was the process of sprinkling the sinner done for a specific sin or any sin. the reason i ask is if it was for any sin given the number of people in the march and man's eagerness to sin, it would seem that they would be in a continual state of sprinling individuals. was this done on a nightly, weekly, quarterly basis? was each individual sprinkled? or was it more of group thing? the logistics seem overwhelming to me



Bluethread -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/3/2008 5:36:52 PM)

Yeshua(Jesus) is The Pesach, the substitutionary sacrifice, that redemns the firstborn, the designated priest for the household.

I know that is a mouthful, but stick with me here. The priest(firstborn) of the household represents the household before the father(the head of the household). The relationship was transferred to the Cohans and Levites for reasons best discussed later or in another thread. The priest assists the head of the household in making the sacrifices. Each sacrifice represents a different way in which we are seperated from Adonai. As The Pesach, Yeshua(Jesus) becomes our household priest and assists us in reestablishing our relationship with Adonai.

The red heifer sacrifice is used in reestablishing our relationship after seperation that might occur due to disease. This is where catholics get "holy water" and the ashes they use on ash wednesday. I personnally do not believe in the catholic interpretation since it requires a temple and there is none on earth at this time.



LCannon -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/3/2008 6:21:16 PM)

Well John, most concepts are simple but the mechanics sometimes messy. Like you, I can imagine a well trod and a long line waiting outside the camp. Since there were regular atonements(sacrifices)in the tabernacle, even sin sacrifices, the 'red heifer' atonements were of special and perhaps more 'serious' transgression. Maybe they were on a regular set schedule; I dunno. I'm just glad I was born in this age of grace! AMEM?

Hebrews 4:14-"Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need."



john_mark -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/3/2008 7:06:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LCannon

Since there were regular atonements(sacrifices)in the tabernacle, even sin sacrifices, the 'red heifer' atonements were of special and perhaps more 'serious' transgression.


thanks, that makes more sense



DaveW -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/4/2008 8:22:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

Dave, perhaps you are correct. After reading the OPs 10 posts thus far, one might conclude he is recruiting converts rather than desiring to become one.
Actually, I see his posts as trying to make theological points about the New Covenant by tying the atonement offerings of Leviticus to the death and ressurection of Messiah/Christ. That is not a bad thing.

IMO, he is doing incorrectly however by using a greko-roman logistic model. He divides things out way too much for Hebraic (biblical) logic.



Bluethread -> RE: Red Heifer or Sin offering (6/5/2008 3:50:37 PM)

Admittedly the analogy is not perfect, but that is the risk when one tries to treat the things in the Tanach(testiment) as analogy. That is the point I was trying to make with regard to the red heifer. Sometimes, a sacrifice is just a sacrifice.



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