Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (Full Version)

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imit8him -> Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/3/2008 5:17:38 PM)

Hey Everyone, [sm=wave.gif]

This is a bit of a weird one... [sm=sadquestion.gif] I'm not sure how to describe this situation or ask a question(s) about it, but I know two people (one Christian, the other not), who share similar cases of depression and selfishness in their "love" (or should I say, obsession?..yikes! [sm=shakinghead.gif][sm=icon_smile_dead.gif][sm=unsure.gif] ) of someone who does not desire them back (and never have).

Person (A)
---This is someone I know, who used to attend church and seemed to have a growing Christian walk and faith...Somewhere along the line, he became friends with a female that he greatly admired and was attracted to. In the process of becoming friends with her, he grew a kind of unnatural emotional attachment to her and more or less fell in love with her. When he asked her for a date, she said "no" and said she felt they were just friends. He was crushed.

-----Shortly afterwards, the female he liked began dating another mutual acquaintance and this guy became very depressed over it. He blamed the other male for "stealing" his female friend away from him and stopped talking to him. Remember, this is a supposed Christian guy we're talking about. He then tried to "win back" the female friend, who never liked him to begin with. Unsuccessful, the guy became a recluse and literally locked himself into his room for 8 to 12 months. .... I remember going over to his apartment, because one of my Bible study members/friends lived there too (believe me, my Bible study friend went nuts living with him and thought he was suicidal) and the depressed guy would never show his face. He would order pizza to his apartment to eat, never leave, never clean, and watched TV all day long. (My friend told me he had the TV on 24/7) He was a biology Ph.D. student and had to take a year off, because of his issues. The last I heard he was still very much depressed....weird...

What made no sense was how could this guy go nuts over someone who never liked him?

Person (B)
---This is someone I know more personally as we have many mutual friends (some Christian, some not) and have hung out in various activities over the years. ...I've actually tried witnessing to him before (as he is a professed agnostic), but the issues he has with women and an almost pathological, or at least very whacky, sense of possessiveness and selfishness seem to always show up as stumbling blocks to faith....Let me explain.

-----This particular guy has a kind of social awkwardness to him, as others have often pointed out (I feel bad for him myself) and is somewhat of a severe introvert. He too, like Person (A), began to befriend a female acquaintence of ours during college and became emotionally attached to her. I don't know what is up with these types of attachments, but his was very noticeable, since we hung around this guy all the time. He became kind of obsessed with her and when she rejected his offer for a date and then also dated a mutual friend of our group (just as in the case of Person A), he became severely depressed. He stopped attending classes, became vindictive (towards the male that was dating the girl), started shutting himself up in his room for several years and more or less dropped out of school. ....Worst, this pattern continued with every female friend he's had. He would get to know girls and ask them out and then once they said they only wanted to be friends, he would be crushed and hate the girl and any male that dated her. In the meantime, he has flunked out of school and become unemployed and depressed, etc....(all relating back to his depression/obsession/possessiveness over women who did not like him)

When we asked him about this whacky behavior, he said that life was not fair. He would say that if not for those other males, he would have gotten the girl possibly and lived a happy life. ....So this guy is not a Christian, but again, I know him from many outings with mutual friends (Christian and non-Christian)...Anyone who's tried to talk with him about it usually comes away with little success. He is chronically depressed that he cannot secure a romantic relationship with women he likes and feels a sense of pain over the lost love of these girls that never liked him to begin with.

My question? ....hmmm, I'm not sure. I just have been baffled by these two individuals. Person (B) recently told me that Christian love (that is selfless) cannot exist, because a person MUST be selfish in any relationship they have. Being selfless is great ideally, he says, but in a relationship, you have to "selfishly" desire the other person to like you and not like another person. ....As a result of his whacky emotional attachments, Person (B) has lost all happiness in life and just mopes around sad all the time. ....

Ok, so has anyone [sm=crazy.gif]ever encountered anyone like these two guys? If so, how have you tried to help them? What/how do you diagnose their issue(s)? ...What does not make sense to me is how you can "fall in love" with someone who never likes you, then get mad and possessive when they do not share mutual romantic love for you? I sometimes do not want to hang out with Person (B), who knows a lot of my friends, because he is a weirdo....But I realize if I have any chance to evangelize to him, that there might be some way to address this concern. Would it also not be a sin to be so emotionally possessive of someone like that? Is it a disease? I'm not sure how to describe these two guy's condition, much less help them with it.

-Imit

(Yay, no more farting chat from me! [;)])



imit8him -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/3/2008 5:54:01 PM)

OH YEAH,...with Person (B)...

He has expressed a desire (whether real or just jokingly, I don't know) to slip into this one girl's apartment at night and slip into bed with her (one of the females who rejected him, but he still has an attraction towards)....I thought he was out of his mind and a threat to society when I heard this and told all of my mutual friends...I was going to even report him to the police or some kind of authority for psychological counseling, but then my group of peers suggested we not do that. They said he was just talking out of fantasy or even just admitting what he "thinks," but not what he would actually do. .....I don't know. I get the creepy vibes from him and feel he is abnormal. [sm=crazy.gif]



delete123 -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/3/2008 6:16:53 PM)

from my pov it appears to me that when they meet a woman they like they are building a relationship with them in their mind. In which no one is privy to, yet they believe the woman knows this and when they get rejected, they go into despair. In other words reality sets in and of course they are going to blame someone else, because that was not in the scenario of what they created.
It's like a delusional love/encounter. They dream and act out in their minds what "they" believe it should be and with whom.

They are avoiding reality and their mind created affair is safe, until they try to live it out and the woman/ women reject them. This can be come serious if they don't receive counselling.

MHO

CRH



jaimestarcross -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/3/2008 7:03:51 PM)

I've seen that type of thing happening ever since I was in high school and that's been over 20 yrs. ago!

It comes down to us looking to another person to satisfy all our wants/needs --- we all have the freedom to decide to follow Christ or follow our own desires.

I remember a baptist preacher who'd say this comment a lot : "Sin will take you further than you meant to go and keep you longer than we meant to stay." {People who keep following after their own desires/wants.}



imit8him -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/3/2008 7:27:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crh737

They are avoiding reality and their mind created affair is safe, until they try to live it out and the woman/ women reject them. This can be come serious if they don't receive counselling.

MHO

CRH


Yeah, this guy gives me the creeps. I wonder about his (Person B's) mental health. I was told by the guys in our group that mutual female friends have all expressed a creepiness about him (Person B), but don't really confront him about it. They just act polite in front of him, but they and everyone else know that something is up with this guy. ...I need to maybe pray about it and see if there are opportunities to confront him or have others closer to him ask him to seek counseling.

-Imit [:)]



imit8him -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/3/2008 7:35:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaimestarcross

I've seen that type of thing happening ever since I was in high school and that's been over 20 yrs. ago!

It comes down to us looking to another person to satisfy all our wants/needs --- we all have the freedom to decide to follow Christ or follow our own desires.

I remember a baptist preacher who'd say this comment a lot : "Sin will take you further than you meant to go and keep you longer than we meant to stay." {People who keep following after their own desires/wants.}


Really, it's that common? Is there a name for this thing? Like a medical condition/name?

-Imit [8D]



mayfly -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/4/2008 1:18:17 AM)

I believe "creepy stupidity" is the medical term for it...[:D]



deermousie -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/4/2008 11:51:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imit8him

Person (A) the depressed guy would never show his face. He would order pizza to his apartment to eat, never leave, never clean, and watched TV all day long. (My friend told me he had the TV on 24/7) He was a biology Ph.D. student and had to take a year off, because of his issues. The last I heard he was still very much depressed....weird...

What made no sense was how could this guy go nuts over someone who never liked him?


Hooooo. It makes sense in that he wanted what he wanted and he decompensated (quit being able to adjust) because he didn't get what he wanted. Contrast that to real love, that gives itself for the other's benefit. Givers and takers. As a gal, I sure would avoid a taker - you can't have a healthy give-and-take relationship with them, and in marriage the woman is dependent on the man to give to her because she's pretty helpless (I'm thinking, at home with dependent little kids, can't get out to make a living herself, etc.). This guy is a walking catastrophe.

Ps.84:11 says God withholds no good thing to him who walks uprightly, so if we don't have something it's because it's not the best thing for us in the eyes of our benevolent Heavenly Father who has promised to supply all our needs in Christ Jesus. Our sin nature, OTOH, says to go get what you want yourself because no one else will. See the lack of knowledge of what God has promised? This guy took it a step further and is saying by his behavior if he can't have what he wants, he'll fry the rest of his life parts in anger and depression. It's a temper tantrum.

Selfish love is an oxymoron: if it's selfish, it isn't love, and if it's love it isn't selfish.

The cure: confess to God he's trying to be god and make life happen on his own terms. Repent and start asking God for what he needs, and accepting life as God's provision and rejoice in it and in God's love for him. He may be unaware that God has made promises to him that fit this situation, and the cure for that is daily Bible reading and study for the rest of his life (us, too. You'll never stop mining the gold out of Scripture; there's always more to be found!).

quote:

Person (B)
...I've actually tried witnessing to him before (as he is a professed agnostic), but the issues he has with women and an almost pathological, or at least very whacky, sense of possessiveness and selfishness seem to always show up as stumbling blocks to faith....


Same thing as Person (A) - they are their own gods, each trying to force life to give them what they want. The difference is, Person (A) put their education off a year and then went back to it; Person (B)'s life completely broke down.

quote:

When we asked him about this whacky behavior, he said that life was not fair.


This is coveteousness - "I get to be given all the good things other people have or it's not fair."

quote:

He would say that if not for those other males, he would have gotten the girl possibly and lived a happy life.


This is delusional.

quote:

Anyone who's tried to talk with him about it usually comes away with little success. He is chronically depressed that he cannot secure a romantic relationship with women he likes and feels a sense of pain over the lost love of these girls that never liked him to begin with.


People who aren't saved, according to the Bible, are enslaved to their sin. Think of it as a wolf trap on their face. They don't admit it's there but they can't get rid of it. The cure: salvation. God is the only one who can break through the hell-grip and bring the dawn of real life to this guy. Keep sharing your faith as natural opportunities arrive, and pray for a miracle. Because any person turning to God is a miracle of the spiritually dead coming to life.

May God be gracious to both these guys.

quote:

Person (B) recently told me that Christian love (that is selfless) cannot exist, because a person MUST be selfish in any relationship they have.


He's spiritually dead, and all his tools are dead and don't work. He can't see the Light.


quote:

Ok, so has anyone [sm=crazy.gif]ever encountered anyone like these two guys?


Yeah. In myself. So has every person, at least person [B] if they're not saved, and Person [A] too if they are.

quote:

If so, how have you tried to help them?


It's a spiritual battle, and our weapons are not carnal but powerful towards God. Pray like crazy, and talk when you can and tell them the truth. God's truth. Show Person [A] Ps. 84:11 and tell him how his life contradicts God's Word. 2 Pet. 1:3, too. Maybe God will be merciful and bring this guy to faith in this area. Person [B] needs to hear that Christ died for sinners, and he is one. That's the starting point for everyone, and he has to pass that point before he can find healing for the other areas of his life.

quote:

(Yay, no more farting chat from me! [;)])


Me, neither. Girls don't fart. Right?



TorchHeart -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/4/2008 12:04:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imit8him



Person (A)
---This is someone I know, who used to attend church and seemed to have a growing Christian walk and faith...Somewhere along the line, he became friends with a female that he greatly admired and was attracted to. In the process of becoming friends with her, he grew a kind of unnatural emotional attachment to her and more or less fell in love with her. When he asked her for a date, she said "no" and said she felt they were just friends. He was crushed.

-----Shortly afterwards, the female he liked began dating another mutual acquaintance and this guy became very depressed over it. He blamed the other male for "stealing" his female friend away from him and stopped talking to him. Remember, this is a supposed Christian guy we're talking about. He then tried to "win back" the female friend, who never liked him to begin with. Unsuccessful, the guy became a recluse and literally locked himself into his room for 8 to 12 months. .... I remember going over to his apartment, because one of my Bible study members/friends lived there too (believe me, my Bible study friend went nuts living with him and thought he was suicidal) and the depressed guy would never show his face. He would order pizza to his apartment to eat, never leave, never clean, and watched TV all day long. (My friend told me he had the TV on 24/7) He was a biology Ph.D. student and had to take a year off, because of his issues. The last I heard he was still very much depressed....weird...

What made no sense was how could this guy go nuts over someone who never liked him?





First things first, why do you say things like "remember, this is supposed to be a Christian guy we're talking about?" Yes, his reactions here are extreme, but its not as though Christians are above having experiences like this. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but it bugs me to no end when people act like Christians (or what some perceive as REAL Christians) never experience things like unrequitted love, depression, anger, etc.

Secondly, unrequitted love can be really hard for someone to get past. Many people can just shrug off a rejection and that's that. However, if he felt that there was truly something between him and this other person (and who knows, she might've lead him to believe such, either intentionally or not), that could've been very devistating to him. Especially if he'd had bad experiences in the past with women/dating. Granted, his reaction to this is extreme. And if its been going on this long, he needs medical help. But to answer your question, even if this girl never liked him, for whatever reason, he felt she did. And its devistating to him that she rejected him, especially for someone who he may see as being exactly like himself.

I would love to knw what is in his past, and if maybe that had something to do with this.



georgerobbyjr -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/6/2008 11:34:30 PM)

It's easy to be an armchair quarterback and say what christians ought to do and what they should not do. The fact is that sometimes when you get to know people, you grow fond of them (and hopefully vice-versa). It is not unusual or abnormal, and it can happen to believers and unbelievers. I can understand why person A was disappointed. Who's to say the attachment or feelings he had were unnatural? I can also see how he might be hurt that the girl he was fond of was dating a buddy of his. You think he's selfish for not wanting this guy to date her? I'm not sure I would've stopped talking to the guy, but I can see how he would be hurt. As far as how people mourn or recover from periods of depression, I doubt anyone in this thread is qualified to make such judgements, unless I'm the only one here who is not a shrink.

Person B is more disturbing, since he continues this cycle of liking those that aren't interested in him time and again. If person B gets mad when the feelings are not reciprocated he is quite different from person A. You cannot be angry at someone for not being attracted to you or wanting to date you, that is the other person's perogative. Person B needs help, mainly because he's doing it to himself by liking those that aren't interested in him.

Person B needs to stop the friends first approach. I always believed if the girl liked me she wouldn't try to tell me she "wants to be friends and see where it goes." He should make his intentions clear from the start. Keep your friends and dates seperate. I know many will disagree with this, but as someone who had a few female friends, fell for a couple of them, and then had some seperate dates which lead to more healthy relationships, I really think you can't be friends for long with someone you want to hold (at least I couldn't).

Christians are just people that sin, and while we don't always condone the actions of others, let's not be so quick to judge.



imit8him -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/10/2008 4:49:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

First things first, why do you say things like "remember, this is supposed to be a Christian guy we're talking about?" Yes, his reactions here are extreme, but its not as though Christians are above having experiences like this. Maybe I'm reading too much into that, but it bugs me to no end when people act like Christians (or what some perceive as REAL Christians) never experience things like unrequitted love, depression, anger, etc.

Secondly, unrequitted love can be really hard for someone to get past. Many people can just shrug off a rejection and that's that. However, if he felt that there was truly something between him and this other person (and who knows, she might've lead him to believe such, either intentionally or not), that could've been very devistating to him. Especially if he'd had bad experiences in the past with women/dating. Granted, his reaction to this is extreme. And if its been going on this long, he needs medical help. But to answer your question, even if this girl never liked him, for whatever reason, he felt she did. And its devistating to him that she rejected him, especially for someone who he may see as being exactly like himself.

I would love to knw what is in his past, and if maybe that had something to do with this.


Hi Torch,

I did kind of feel you read too much into this...I was not suggesting that Christians do not have problems, but rather trying to figure out why this situation was a problem and also why this person had such an extreme reaction. I know for a fact that the female never liked Person A and that he seemed somewhat delusional after she rejected him. His behavior was very erratic and illogical...it's as if he became a child..no even worse. I think it's generally a bad sign of a person's maturity and readiness to date if they cannot handle rejection properly and in this case of Person A, he not only handled it poorly, but went into a 180. He stopped going to church as far as I know and went into a deep depression in which he blamed someone else for his rejection and had bad emotions and seemed suicidal.....and this was all over someone who never liked him. That was the part I didn't get.

I suppose he was prematurely and overly attached to this person emotionally and mentally, because there is no logical reason a mature guy should act that way. It wasn't just like a child who didn't get their way and would pout, but it was like a mentally ill person who went nuts after rejection. How he went from being a church-going, happy-go-lucky, doctoral candidate in biology to almost dropping out and literally watching reruns on TV 24/7 and never leaving his room and blaming other people for his rejection is beyond me. My Christian friend talked to him and last he heard, this person lost his faith completely.

The main reason I thought this was odd, though, was because it mirrored almost the exact situation of my other friend - Person B. That's why I started wondering what was up with these things and if it was common? But again, I do not look down on these guys, nor try to suggest that Christians do not have issues...just trying to understand why a seemingly healthy Christian would have such a weird reaction to something like this. (I wonder if he made an idol out of this girl in his heart and became kind of possessive about it?....) [sm=sadquestion.gif]

-Imit



imit8him -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/10/2008 5:02:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: georgerobbyjr

It's easy to be an armchair quarterback and say what christians ought to do and what they should not do. The fact is that sometimes when you get to know people, you grow fond of them (and hopefully vice-versa). It is not unusual or abnormal, and it can happen to believers and unbelievers.

.....

...........


...... Christians are just people that sin, and while we don't always condone the actions of others, let's not be so quick to judge.


Hey George,

I am not currently judgmental, nor trying to be an armchair quarterback in this question. Please see my comments to TorchHeart from the proceeding post about this.

I suppose I do sound a bit judgmental in my tone, but it's more of a genuine curiosity about this bizzarre scenario with the two people I know....Now that's not to say that I was never judgmental about it in the past....I did have episodes of being disgusted and unsympathetic towards these two guys, but I have learned to get beyond that and realize they need help too.

As I mentioned to Torch, it's the extreme reaction of these guys over a relationship that never existed that beffudles me (the vindictive behavior toward the rival males was the most odd part). [sm=crazy.gif] [sm=comp1.gif][sm=sadquestion.gif]

-Imit



TorchHeart -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/10/2008 9:47:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: imit8him


I did kind of feel you read too much into this...I was not suggesting that Christians do not have problems, but rather trying to figure out why this situation was a problem and also why this person had such an extreme reaction. I know for a fact that the female never liked Person A and that he seemed somewhat delusional after she rejected him. His behavior was very erratic and illogical...it's as if he became a child..no even worse. I think it's generally a bad sign of a person's maturity and readiness to date if they cannot handle rejection properly and in this case of Person A, he not only handled it poorly, but went into a 180. He stopped going to church as far as I know and went into a deep depression in which he blamed someone else for his rejection and had bad emotions and seemed suicidal.....and this was all over someone who never liked him. That was the part I didn't get.

I suppose he was prematurely and overly attached to this person emotionally and mentally, because there is no logical reason a mature guy should act that way. It wasn't just like a child who didn't get their way and would pout, but it was like a mentally ill person who went nuts after rejection. How he went from being a church-going, happy-go-lucky, doctoral candidate in biology to almost dropping out and literally watching reruns on TV 24/7 and never leaving his room and blaming other people for his rejection is beyond me. My Christian friend talked to him and last he heard, this person lost his faith completely.

The main reason I thought this was odd, though, was because it mirrored almost the exact situation of my other friend - Person B. That's why I started wondering what was up with these things and if it was common? But again, I do not look down on these guys, nor try to suggest that Christians do not have issues...just trying to understand why a seemingly healthy Christian would have such a weird reaction to something like this. (I wonder if he made an idol out of this girl in his heart and became kind of possessive about it?....) [sm=sadquestion.gif]

-Imit


I WILL agree with you that his reaction to being rejected was beyond extreme. It was down-right unhealthy. I think its pretty clear that something else had to be going on here. Its understandable for someone to be hurt, angry, and/or depressed after being rejected by someone who they felt liked them in a special way as more than a friend. I've been there, and I'm sure almost everyone else on this board has been, too. But to go for such an extended period of time in this state and turn into a recluse who begins to reject his faith, abandons not just his friends, but his social life altogether, and become filled with jealosy and anger towards other people.... that's the sign of something else.

As for why he had this reaction, I'm going to say again that there is probably something in his past that lead up to this. To have such a drastic raction to simply being rejected by a woman is bizzare.



evryknee -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/10/2008 2:04:50 PM)

Some good points above. Fantasy in their minds built an expectation of how the women were going to act and respond to him. When they did not react they way desired, the men retreated to themselves and became angry (at the women, th eother men, and probably at themselves for risking and being rejected). It is most likely that these men were rejected by a parent figure as children and have active fantasy lives. Their actions and reactions are based on the fact that they need love and are insecure. So they try to get what they need through other people, relationships. Unfortunately, they are looking for love in all the wrong places (they should write a song about that!).

Basically, as far as a medical condition, it is hard to say (poss. Bi-Polar, but hard to say). But since most here have felt rejection, you can understand more by multiplying the rejection feelings several fold, delete the security you have found in parental love, and subtract the reasoning you now have = Person A or B



georgerobbyjr -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/12/2008 12:24:56 AM)

quote:

I did have episodes of being disgusted and unsympathetic towards these two guys, but I have learned to get beyond that and realize they need help too.

I'm sure we can go round and round with this so this should be my last post. I don't think you're being the least bit sympathetic. Person A developed feelings, which is quite normal. Okay, they weren't reciprocated, but who wants to see their friend date someone they have a crush on? I think it's too much to call them pathetic, though they didn't handle things well (esp person B). As for how he (person A) overreacted, it is hard to figure why he needed to take a year off his schooling (depressed for a month or 2 sounds more normal to me). I still think I would be upset if my friend went out with someone I had a crush on, but I'm not sure if that would ruin the friendship. If they were merely acquaintances I still think it would bug me. Some people, christians included, have many issues we do not know about and are in need of sympathy and a listening ear. There will be plenty of people who find them weird and look down on them, but as christians I feel we should be more supportive than that and not be quick to judge. After thinking about the joke Person B made, I would steer clear of him. If he were going to make such a joke, he should've never told a female.



imit8him -> RE: Two People w/ Odd Cases of Selfish Love (6/12/2008 5:07:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: georgerobbyjr

quote:

I did have episodes of being disgusted and unsympathetic towards these two guys, but I have learned to get beyond that and realize they need help too.

I'm sure we can go round and round with this so this should be my last post. I don't think you're being the least bit sympathetic. Person A developed feelings, which is quite normal. Okay, they weren't reciprocated, but who wants to see their friend date someone they have a crush on? I think it's too much to call them pathetic, though they didn't handle things well (esp person B). As for how he (person A) overreacted, it is hard to figure why he needed to take a year off his schooling (depressed for a month or 2 sounds more normal to me). I still think I would be upset if my friend went out with someone I had a crush on, but I'm not sure if that would ruin the friendship. If they were merely acquaintances I still think it would bug me. Some people, christians included, have many issues we do not know about and are in need of sympathy and a listening ear. There will be plenty of people who find them weird and look down on them, but as christians I feel we should be more supportive than that and not be quick to judge. After thinking about the joke Person B made, I would steer clear of him. If he were going to make such a joke, he should've never told a female.


Hey George,

I'll have to think more about your point about me being unsympathetic. I can't tell off the top of my head if I am being judgmental still, but I do realize that these are people I should care about and wish the best for. ...Sometimes I do not know if it is me feeling sorry for them or if I really do have God's love in my heart for them and wish them the best, despite their flaws. ...I have definitely felt pity for these two in the past and like I said before, I have also felt a combination of disgust and condemnation....So thank you for your opinion. I need to pray and check my heart on that to make sure I am not going about and looking down on them in some spiritually arrogant/proud way (like I would never do that...sort of thing).

In terms of whether it is somewhat natural (in a sinful way) to feel upset or bothered by a mutual friend or acquaintence dating the person you like...I can empathize with that on second thought. I did ask a girl out during college who I greatly liked and she said no and went and dated another church community member. ...I did not know that guy very well at all, so it did not have much of an impact, but I can imagine I might feel a bit odd or envious in some way if my buddy dated her. In the case of the girl I liked in the past, I talked to her and even wished her well geniuinely and we've maintained a very high level of love and respect for one another. It seems definitely odd, but in my case I did not have any hangups with not dating her and having her date someone else. I was crushed definitely! And it lasted about 3-4 months I think, but then I got over it and started finding interest in others and also findign myself respecting and liking the previous girl with respect and admiration. I didn't have a possessive kind of attitude or weird attachment that lingers on and on I see in these two guys. ....I think in my case it helped too that I was reading a lot of Christian dating books at the time. I was able to see these things in the correct light and move on. I don't really know what to say. ....It seems very unusual still to have someone get vindictive (and try to sabotage the other guy's life that the woman he likes is dating) and become completely shattered to the point of loss of faith and descent into a life of angry reclusion. These guys reacted wayyy too harshly imo and that was my original question/issue.

Perhaps a few examples of what I mean by extreme reaction would help... Person B was so upset and jealous of the guy who dated his desired female friend went out and asked everyone to stop talking to the guy. This is what I mean and saw as vindictive. ....He harmed "the other guy." It also made no sense, because the girl never liked him. Why would he be so possessive and mad? But to be sure, he and "the other guy" were very close friends at the time. So I do see a greater conflict of interest than in my case where "the other guy" was someone I didn't know. But even then...and not to praise myself here, but I did not go nuts in my reaction and not only moved on, but have had a good friendship filled with love and respect for the girl who rejected me. Person B has seemed to go the other way completely. As if he refuses to accept "defeat" and is now trying to sabotage the relationship of his friend and the girl he likes. ....This is not to mention he ruined his own life in the process. Nearly bombing out of school and becoming somewhat of a recluse as well. Does this still not seem extreme? That's how I saw it. It was beyond normal ...it got ugly so to speak. [sm=crazy.gif]



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