RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (Full Version)

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Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/11/2008 11:32:46 AM)

In regards to the sukkas in earlier posts,
I have built a 10 X 16 porch on the front
of my house with a 18 foot ramp. Porch
is a little high so had to have a long ramp.
That is so I will have a ramp before I "need"
a ramp and won't be able to build myself one. LOL.

This last weekend I build a 10 X 10 pergola at one
end of the porch, so I have a ready made sukka
for future use. lol. All I'll have to do is decorate
it for the occasion. Plenty of room for a picnic table
so the kids will clammer to be ought there for meals.

Now, today my study pal and I are closing up First Corinthians.
Chapter 16 starts with the collection for the saints in Jerusalem.
We're using the Power New Testament this go round and the
term Havdalah is used in the first two verse. Then a footnote
to go to the dictionary in the back for the meaning of the event.

Any personal explanations to what "Havdalah" is and how you
exercise it? Just want to see if the picture I have in my mind
is the same as those who use this term.



wshepherd -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/11/2008 12:48:04 PM)

Havdalah is the ceremony that Jews use to say good-bye to the Sabbath. It involves spices and snuffing a multi-wicked candle out in a glass overflowing with wine.



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/13/2008 11:38:36 AM)

I did a google search and found some places
that say this tradition has an origin in the 4th
or 5th century.

Still interesting though.



wshepherd -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/13/2008 11:48:05 AM)

What does your Power New Testament say about havdalah? Because if it originates around the 4th or 5th centuries, why would it even reference it?



DaveW -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/13/2008 1:22:42 PM)

It is postulated that the early messianic believers (while the temple was still standing) gathered for havdala, giving rise to meeting on the first day of the week.

If you look at the events in Acts 20,

Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
Act 20:8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered together.
Act 20:9 And there was a young man named Eutychus sitting on the window sill, sinking into a deep sleep; and as Paul kept on talking, he was overcome by sleep and fell down from the third floor and was picked up dead.
Act 20:10 But Paul went down and fell upon him, and after embracing him, he said, "Do not be troubled, for his life is in him."
Act 20:11 When he had gone back up and had broken the bread and eaten, he talked with them a long while until daybreak, and then left.


Do you really think Paul preached 24 hours? It is much more likely they broke bread for havdalah and he spoke through the night.



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/13/2008 4:22:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wshepherd

What does your Power New Testament say about havdalah? Because if it originates around the 4th or 5th centuries, why would it even reference it?


That was my thought also.

I Corinthians 16:2 (PNT)
On Saturday evening at the Havdalah service each of you must
now set aside for himself from his treasuries, from whatever he
would have gained, so that when I would come then collections
would not need to be made.

Footnote:
This service starts two hours after sundown Saturday evening to
make the transition from the holy Sabbath to the secular workweek.
See Havdalah in Glossary.

quote:

Do you really think Paul preached 24 hours? It is much more likely they broke bread for havdalah and he spoke through the night.


That does make more sense. Preaching all day and night was one of
those "indoctrinations" we got in the churches stories.


quote:


Glossary: [Havdalah]

Havdalah is the name of the service at the beginning of the day after
the Sabbath. Havdalah means separation in Hebrew. One hour after
sundown ends the Sabbath, there is a service at the synagogue to
make the transition back to the secular workday.

The one-hour delay is to be absolutely certain that the Sabbath is
over, no fudging allowed. Some congregations make that a two-hour
delay. This separation between holy and profane is discussed in the
Zohar, Vayikra Section III, "we should say at the close of Sabbath,
'who divideth between holy and profane', the separation consisting
in the fact that holiness is something apart, and the rest issue from it."

After the Havdalah service money can be discussed and used because
the worshippers have returned from their separation with God to the
secular, work-a-day world. It was after a Havdalah service that Paul
instructed the Corinthians (I Cor. 16:2) to set aside their money. The
Havdalah service is also the reason Paul spoke so late in Troas,
when Eutuchus fell out the window (Act 20:7). Acts 20:6 tells us that
Paul and those with him left Philipi after the Feast of Unleavened Bread,
so allowing for the travel time, from Philippi to Troas, of five days, this
was likely sometime from mid April to early May.

That would put sunset at 7:00 PM or later, so the Havdalah service
would have started sometime after 9:00 PM. Allowing time for the
service and the meal it could have been 11:00 PM when Paul began
to speak, making it easy for him to go on past midnight.



Bluethread -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/13/2008 5:06:05 PM)

We incorporate the teachings of the Messiah in our havadalah halacha. We read about the woman washing His feet when we do the tear cup ceremony. We thank Adonia for prividing "sufficient and abundantly more than we could think or ask" and read the Messiah's admonition regarding worrying about what we will eat, when we bless the bread. Then we end with a reading of the "great commission" and the Aaronic blessing that we believe the Messiah recited at that time. Thgough I have never required it of them, my children take great pride in being able to recite these rather long passages from heart.



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/14/2008 12:53:41 PM)

Thanks BT,
That's great about your kids.

Wish I had been teaching my kids
when they were smaller. They turned
out okay. But, I would have liked them
to be more informed earlier in life.



Bluethread -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/15/2008 11:57:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

Thanks BT,
That's great about your kids.

Wish I had been teaching my kids
when they were smaller. They turned
out okay. But, I would have liked them
to be more informed earlier in life.


I started half way so the oldest "doesn't believe in that stuff". The second who has a jewish boyfriend is becoming interested again. The third is pretty well grounded but I don't think he is as observant as he should be. And the youngest is recieving a lot of outside influences. I am putting my faith in:

Pro. 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.



wshepherd -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/17/2008 1:24:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I am putting my faith in:

Pro. 22:6
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.


Just remember, that this is a proverb, not a promise, as so many people think.



p31woman -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/18/2008 1:31:59 PM)

As a Gentile Messianic believer (with some Jewish blood a couple generations back on at least one side of the family)... what do you say when a Jew notices the necklace you are wearing (similar to THIS) and asks if you are Jewish? I don't want to offend OR confuse, but I do want to witness to the Messiah. [:)] Today, I simply answered, "I'm a Messianic believer," and we proceeded to talk about how difficult it is to find matzoh in this town. [8D]



Bluethread -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/19/2008 3:38:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: p31woman

As a Gentile Messianic believer (with some Jewish blood a couple generations back on at least one side of the family)... what do you say when a Jew notices the necklace you are wearing (similar to THIS) and asks if you are Jewish? I don't want to offend OR confuse, but I do want to witness to the Messiah. [:)] Today, I simply answered, "I'm a Messianic believer," and we proceeded to talk about how difficult it is to find matzoh in this town. [8D]


Whenever I see a manorah, star of David or any other such symbol, I say, Baruch HaShem(blessed is the name). This works well as a shibolith. If they don't understand, I just move on. It is just jewelry. If they do respond it is usually favorably. However, I keep my conversation focused around Torah until I know they are ammenable to hearing about the Messiah. I did make an exception for one woman who had a tatoo in hebrew script. I pointed out the irony and she seemed to be proud of that. That's too bad.



Mrs.Dawgfan -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/20/2008 4:33:50 PM)

Hi everyone! :D

How goes you?



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/20/2008 4:43:51 PM)

GENESIS [Hebrew]

LINK



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/21/2008 3:39:22 PM)

A Parable About the Biblical Holidays

Once upon a time there was a wonderful King that ruled a Kingdom. The King was always
doing fine and wonderful things for His people. The people desired in their hearts to worship
and glorify the King and His wonderful deeds. So the King planned appointed times each
year: special times to tell the stories of His deeds to the people's children and to glorify the
King. The King wrote the instructions of how to observe the celebrations in a book called
the Book of Wisdom [Bible].

For many years the people enjoyed these celebrations. Each year they would learn more
about their King and feel closer to Him. They realized the King's celebrations were not
only to tell stories of the things the King had done for His people in the past, but also
foreshadows of more fine things the King was planning to do for them in the future.

There was another kingdom that did not worship the King. They worshipped objects such
as statues, animals, trees, and the sun. In this other kingdom, the people practiced
several different annual parties that glorifed the people and the objects instead of the King.
Each party had a different theme. In some they dressed up like animals and other beings.
In some they decorated their homes and gave gifts to each other.

Then a man from this other kingdom visited the King's kingdom and told the people the
annual parties were much more fun than the King's celebrations. Some of the people
wanted to continue celebrating the ceremonies that worshiped the King. Other people
wanted to replace the special celebrations with the new celebrations.

Through the years people started to combine both sets of celebrations. They would
practice the annual parties, meant to worship objects such as statues, animals, trees,
and the sun, but they would say that they were worshipping the King, not the object, so
eveyone would be happy. They changed the appointed times of the King's celebrations to
new times that coincided with the annual parties. The people of both kingdoms were
combining so many traditions that no one could tell that there were two kingdoms. The
kingdoms blended into each other. This continued for many years until the most recent
generations forgot the celebrations that the King planned that glorified the King and His
wonderful deeds for the people.

One day a man was reading the Book of Wisdom [Bible]. He came across a little known
chapter that told about the King's appointed times each year: special times for celebrations
to tell the stories of His deeds to the people's children and to glorify the King. He was so
excited! He went to tell the people about the wonderful celebrations. This made the people
very angry. They felt that the man was condemning them for traditions that they had
innocently done all their lives. They did not understand.

The man was sad, but he decided to keep the King's celebrations in his own family.
The man's family learned much about the King. In fact, each year the man and his
family grew closer and closer to the King because of the wonderful stories they learned
about during the celebrations.

The man and his family learned that the King had special secrets that revealed
foreshadows of more fine things the King was planning to do for them. That man
wanted so much to share these stories with others. Even though the man was
continually rejected, he continued to tell about the King's celebrations. After a while,
a few other families (who had always felt uncomfortable about the annual parties they
kept) listened to the man. They read the chapter in the Book Wisdom [Bible] and
also got excited.

Soon many people returned to celebrating the King's appointed times, worshipping
and telling stories about the King. This made the King very happy!



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/21/2008 3:42:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mrs.Above_All

Hi everyone! :D

How goes you?


Hi Mrs. [sm=thumbsup.gif]



Mrs.Dawgfan -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/24/2008 3:47:49 AM)

[:D]

So if you read my blog you will see that hubby and I plan to try celebrating Christ's birth during Hannukah. It's worth a try huh? Anyone else do something similar? Different?



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/24/2008 2:57:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mrs.Above_All

[:D]

So if you read my blog you will see that hubby and I plan to try celebrating Christ's birth during Hannukah. It's worth a try huh? Anyone else do something similar? Different?


I celebrate it during Sukkot myself.

And I truly love Hannukah season.

I read the book of Maccabees to the congregation
during this time of year and we talk about "assimilation."



Bluethread -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/25/2008 4:18:49 AM)

I think Hannukah is more like independence day. Roman candle anyone?



wshepherd -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/25/2008 10:58:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I think Hannukah is more like independence day. Roman candle anyone?


Well, it's also called the Festival of Lights and the Feast of Dedication, so many people celebrate when the Light of the World came into the world, and/or as a time of rededicating themselves to the Lord.



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/25/2008 11:33:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I think Hannukah is more like independence day. Roman candle anyone?


LOL.
How many Roman candles will it take to fulfill the 8 days of Chanukah?
That would take some planning, unless you live where they are available
all year long. lol.

That would be an idea to perk the kids enthusiasm for the holiday.
Night lights...........quick...........but impressive. lol.



Mrs.Dawgfan -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/25/2008 2:16:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wshepherd

Well, it's also called the Festival of Lights and the Feast of Dedication, so many people celebrate when the Light of the World came into the world, and/or as a time of rededicating themselves to the Lord.


Hi Wanda!

This is exactly why I thought this would be a good time to celebrate His birth. There is that common theme of Hope. [:)]

I bought a Hannukkah table cloth and am hoping to find me a nice Nativity to go on top of it. lol. There also some pretty Menorrahs at the Temple that they sell. I was also thinking of hanging some white lights on my window too.



Bluethread -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/25/2008 7:57:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I think Hannukah is more like independence day. Roman candle anyone?


LOL.
How many Roman candles will it take to fulfill the 8 days of Chanukah?
That would take some planning, unless you live where they are available
all year long. lol.

That would be an idea to perk the kids enthusiasm for the holiday.
Night lights...........quick...........but impressive. lol.


According to the Maccabees, all of them. That would be candles made from actual romans.



Lapidoth -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/26/2008 12:21:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I think Hannukah is more like independence day. Roman candle anyone?


LOL.
How many Roman candles will it take to fulfill the 8 days of Chanukah?
That would take some planning, unless you live where they are available
all year long. lol.

That would be an idea to perk the kids enthusiasm for the holiday.
Night lights...........quick...........but impressive. lol.


According to the Maccabees, all of them. That would be candles made from actual romans.


ROFL..............................a point I hadn't thought of before.

Wonder what impression that would make if I put Roman soldier shaped
candle holders out front and then on the last night burned the candles
and the holders?



LBolt -> RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 (11/26/2008 4:36:18 PM)

God bless you all...Have a wonderful Thanksgiving day. May you be truly blessed and thankful for the freedom in Moshiach and in the USA or where ever you are from!!



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