RE: Alternative Candidates (Full Version)

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SovereignIsHe -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 12:04:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

This sort of reminds me of the discussion my wife and I have had about locks. She thinks I'm silly to make sure the door locks are in good working order and insure they are locked before I go to bed. I see little difference between that and Jerusalem having walls & gates. Or having the house grounded. Or a having a handgun. None of those guarantee my survival in emergencies, but I think God expects me to take reasonable precautions.

I see voting for a 3rd party candidate like my foolishly leaving my door open and the gun unloaded in the basement and feeling I may be helping God use a robber to come in and teach my family some lesson.



I see voting for the same thingover and over again expecting change as what it is generally considered, insanity...

John



JimboFletch -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 8:02:39 AM)

quote:

I see voting for the same thingover and over again expecting change as what it is generally considered, insanity...

Not sure whose "line" you're buying into, but I haven't voted for two even nearly identical presidential candidates since I turned 21 in the early 70s, including the 2 Bush Presidents.

Unless you mean repeatedly voting for men you know won't possibly get into the White House, then, yes, you're right.



JimboFletch -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 8:07:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky

Jimbo, instead of ridiculing and bashing those who chose to vote their conscience, why not just respect their decision and move on?

Come on, Jeff, can you with a straight face say you and your cohorts haven't been doing the same towards Christians that vote for the two main parties? It's okay to belittle folk like me in a way suggestive of evil or its slave but opposition like mine should be silenced?

Is that the goal of these alternative parties, silence opposition to the "right" viewpoints?



Solus -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 1:39:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky

Jimbo, instead of ridiculing and bashing those who chose to vote their conscience, why not just respect their decision and move on?

Come on, Jeff, can you with a straight face say you and your cohorts haven't been doing the same towards Christians that vote for the two main parties? It's okay to belittle folk like me in a way suggestive of evil or its slave but opposition like mine should be silenced?

Is that the goal of these alternative parties, silence opposition to the "right" viewpoints?


No, the goal is to have more choices for the people. The two party system is only slightly better than communist Russia.



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 2:41:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky

Jimbo, instead of ridiculing and bashing those who chose to vote their conscience, why not just respect their decision and move on?

Come on, Jeff, can you with a straight face say you and your cohorts haven't been doing the same towards Christians that vote for the two main parties? It's okay to belittle folk like me in a way suggestive of evil or its slave but opposition like mine should be silenced?

Is that the goal of these alternative parties, silence opposition to the "right" viewpoints?


Jimbo, opposing viewpoints are fine but you usually go way beyond that in your posts. You bash and you ridicule. For me, if a person does their research and honestly believes that Obama is the best candidate to vote for, then that is who they should vote for, regardless of what I think about him. It's the same thing with McCain. If you really believe in him, then vote for him. But, if you don't like either one, and I don't, then why should you have to vote for one of them when there are other choices?



JimboFletch -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 3:40:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Solus
No, the goal is to have more choices for the people. The two party system is only slightly better than communist Russia.

No bashing here, huh? .... Say what you want, Jeff, I'm not the only one that's quick to take a jab.



JimboFletch -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 3:45:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Solus

...The lesser of two evils is still evil...

When you limit yourself too just two choices and ignore the fact that their views are dangerous, you are essentially limiting God.

Jeff, just a taste of the opening post. It was a poke-you-in-the-eye statement that was not intended to encourage a look at an alternative candidate, but to belittle anyone voting Democrat or Republican.

I did not set the tone for this thread.



bzirk -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 4:26:35 PM)

It would be great if we could knock off the personal stuff -- both giving and receiving.



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 4:36:14 PM)

Jimbo, the posts you quoted were not bashing anyone, nor were they ridiculing someones opinion. They were simply using comparrisons to illustrate an opinion.

Besides, if you don't believe either Obama or McCain is the best choice to be President, then what is wrong with voting for someone you believe is the best choice?



SovereignIsHe -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 9:27:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

I see voting for the same thingover and over again expecting change as what it is generally considered, insanity...

Not sure whose "line" you're buying into, but I haven't voted for two even nearly identical presidential candidates since I turned 21 in the early 70s, including the 2 Bush Presidents.

Unless you mean repeatedly voting for men you know won't possibly get into the White House, then, yes, you're right.


I mean repeatedly voting for whomever the two parties toss out who take their base for granted and sellout( to the stick their finger in the wind middle who for the most part select the president since the majority of people vote along party lines regardless of the person running...) themselves out to the middle in order to win...

Voting for people who won't make any real difference isn't all that different from voting for someone who has no chance of winning...

When the time comes when the two parties have nothing to different offer in regards to policy who will be blamed?


John



PolarBear -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/10/2008 11:43:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

And, as has been admitted, an alternative candidates isn't going to make it this year.

It won't happen ANY year if people continue to spout the stuff that you do!

I suspect you won't change your tune in 4, or 8, or 12 years, but you'll vote for the R because the 3rd party "has no chance to win." At what point then can the cycle be broken?

I'm sick of the Republicrats. If you're going to insist that we vote for the R for fear of the D winning, please provide a methodological process by which we can forsee a time when a third party can possibly win. If you can do that, I may well vote for McCain this time. Otherwise I may well support Barr. In the long run, we need hope for better viable candidates that the GOP is not providing.



lightshineon -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/11/2008 12:00:28 AM)

At this point, it is getting where it really does not matter to me, who the lesser of the evils. I only worry about, well mostly, about Obama pulling the troops out right away. That is the most stupid thing he could do. I of course hate abortion, and gay marriage, but evil and perversion seem to rule this present world, and many churches too. It is like choosing between Nero, and caligula, who is more evil than who?



JimboFletch -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/11/2008 7:45:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PolarBear
It won't happen ANY year if people continue to spout the stuff that you do!

I suspect you won't change your tune in 4, or 8, or 12 years, but you'll vote for the R because the 3rd party "has no chance to win." At what point then can the cycle be broken?

I'm sick of the Republicrats. If you're going to insist that we vote for the R for fear of the D winning, please provide a methodological process by which we can forsee a time when a third party can possibly win. If you can do that, I may well vote for McCain this time. Otherwise I may well support Barr. In the long run, we need hope for better viable candidates that the GOP is not providing.

NOTE TO JEFF:

Just because you believe stuff like this, does NOT mean there's no bashing going on.

The two previous posts, along with this (and many more), ARE examples of bashing if you don't happen to share your view.

It's silly to pretend that your side remains innocent and squeaky clean.

I've quit responding to attacks and innuendo, I just want to see, if possible, how ludicrous it is to make me the bad guy. The OP, and others, have all but said that anyone not voting alternative is an evil puppet without any brains.

That's the message of several of the alternatives in this thread.

And as long as someone calls me an evil, brainless puppet, there is no way that I'll take anything else the have to say seriously.



Solus -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/11/2008 1:47:12 PM)

No, I have criticized people for voting for McCain because they think he has a chance and not because they belive he would make a good president. If you agree with him then vote for him. If not then vote for the candidate whose views most match yours.

And yes, I think that those who do not agree with the Republicans or Democrats and yet still vote for them are puppets.



PolarBear -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/12/2008 1:35:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

And as long as someone calls me an evil, brainless puppet, there is no way that I'll take anything else the have to say seriously.

Uhh, that's not exactly what I was saying. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration there?

I don't think I've ever accused you. I just want to know how you intend to break the cycle if it's never reasonable to vote third party.



cog41 -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/13/2008 8:18:49 AM)

Just vote the way you believe.

Throw the rascals out and start over.



Solus -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/13/2008 4:09:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cog41

Just vote the way you believe.

Throw the rascals out and start over.


Exactly.



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/13/2008 4:19:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cog41

Just vote the way you believe.

Throw the rascals out and start over.


I couldn't have said it better myself!



bzirk -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/14/2008 10:53:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PolarBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

And as long as someone calls me an evil, brainless puppet, there is no way that I'll take anything else the have to say seriously.

Uhh, that's not exactly what I was saying. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration there?

I don't think I've ever accused you. I just want to know how you intend to break the cycle if it's never reasonable to vote third party.


Exactly. Doing the same thing and expecting a different result has never made sense.

Now if the alternative is working to bring better candidates to the slate, then that makes sense. But frankly I doubt very many people posting on or reading this thread participate in that process. Most probably don't even know what hapens at the local level. Yes, I'm saying most people are ignorant about voting, and I'm of the school that these people should probably just stay away from the polls, and thankfully, most of them do.

That aside, the older I get the more I really understand why my dad was so passionate about local politics. That bored me when when I was younger, but I can't get around the fact that the local level really is where it starts, and sadly, too many people do not participate in that part of it. Most people don't even vote. If they do, it's only in the presidential election, and most of that vote is driven by sound bites and who the candidates associate with.



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/14/2008 3:28:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bzirk

Now if the alternative is working to bring better candidates to the slate, then that makes sense. But frankly I doubt very many people posting on or reading this thread participate in that process. Most probably don't even know what hapens at the local level. Yes, I'm saying most people are ignorant about voting, and I'm of the school that these people should probably just stay away from the polls, and thankfully, most of them do.


I participate in the process at the local, state, and national levels. I research the candidates from President down to the local school board members. I support those that I most agree with regardless of party affiliation. I've voted for a Democrat for County Jailer, a Libertarian for Congress, a Constitution Party candidate for president, a Republican for Senate, and Independents for County Judge Executive (the highest ranking elected official in each county in Kentucky) and other local offices.

I've campaigned against local officials who make bad decisions, from school board members to town council members to county constable, regardless of their party affiliation. I've even been courted by four different parties to run for office under their banner but I turned them down. When I do run, and I probably will run for office when the time is right, I will probably run as an Independent because I have views that run from one end of the political spectrum to the other.



bzirk -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/14/2008 8:48:54 PM)

Jeff,

My comments were not directed at anyone here. Just making a generalization about what goes on. But in rereading my comments, it sounds even more contemptuous than it did when I wrote it. I guess I'm more disgusted than I thought, and frankly, we, voters in America, have gotten the candidates we deserve.



Jeff_from_Kentucky -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/14/2008 9:12:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bzirk

Jeff,

My comments were not directed at anyone here. Just making a generalization about what goes on. But in rereading my comments, it sounds even more contemptuous than it did when I wrote it. I guess I'm more disgusted than I thought, and frankly, we, voters in America, have gotten the candidates we deserve.


That's okay. If people are going to talk the talk when it comes to alternative candidates, they should be able to show that they walk the walk too.(referring to myself here)

I can understand being disgusted. We get some not-so-great people elected to office at all levels and I believe that is because many voters don't educate themselves about their choices. I believe all voters should research the candidates and issues before they go to the booth. It doesn't take that long to do it now because of the internet, and there is free public internet access at most public libraries.

Edited for clarification purposes!



bzirk -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/15/2008 5:33:24 PM)

I'm mostly just venting in this thread and my other one on disenfranchisement. Sorry y'all have to be subjected to it. I wish I could just be done with how I feel and move on, but I guess I've got an anger and frustration that the Lord is going to help me deal with. Very frustrating to witness the society my kids are inheriting. Yeah, I know the world is evil, but it's still hard to watch it.



JimboFletch -> RE: Alternative Candidates (6/16/2008 9:33:38 AM)

Speaking of alternative candidates, I see Ross has a new site online:
http://perotcharts.com/



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