Disenfranchisement

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bzirk -> Disenfranchisement (6/4/2008 3:15:24 PM)
That's what I feel today. Maybe it's a good thing for me to experience this. Make no mistake that it's been coming on for a long time. It's not something that I just woke up one morning and felt. But feel it I do. I'm disgusted with the offerings we have for president (and a lot of other offices as well), and I'm disgusted with what the process has become. I realize we're all imperfect and our representatives are imperfect as well. But today I don't feel that I really have a voice. By, of and for the people just rings hollow. What's really funny about me feeling this way is that for most of my life I've actually believed the system worked -- despite the flawed people involved. But now I'm rethinking that in a way that maybe I should have all along. I'm realizing that there is no question that the Lord is the one who needs to be looked to and not my "superior" judgment [8\|] or the judgment of those whose intellectual prowess impresses me. What has that accomplished? What did eight years of Reagan do? No, I don't think he was perfect, but a darn sight better than what we have now. But what did it do? Did it help us avoid what we've come to?

cow451 -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/4/2008 3:23:42 PM)
The (American) "system" functions. It's not that great but it beats the alternatives that other countries have most of the time. Government in the US is a secular enterprise. So why do we Christians expect it to cater to our desires (which we don't agree on much of the time)? I prefer to think of it as a work in progress.

bzirk -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/4/2008 3:31:40 PM)
Cow, You're preachin' to the choir, er, former choir, my friend. If you're satisfied with what the system is today, then I can understand your comments. But I'm not satisifed. I can't keep telling myself that it's the best system in the world and meanwhile the system has been undergoing a change that is slowly quieting our voices. Perhaps my comments in this thread are just the death throes of belief in the system. It's always been about the people running the system, and I chose to overlook that. Thankfully, I don't have to place my faith in the system or the people.

blessedinnyc -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/4/2008 3:38:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bzirk That's what I feel today. Maybe it's a good thing for me to experience this. Make no mistake that it's been coming on for a long time. It's not something that I just woke up one morning and felt. But feel it I do. I'm disgusted with the offerings we have for president (and a lot of other offices as well), and I'm disgusted with what the process has become. I realize we're all imperfect and our representatives are imperfect as well. But today I don't feel that I really have a voice. By, of and for the people just rings hollow. What's really funny about me feeling this way is that for most of my life I've actually believed the system worked -- despite the flawed people involved. But now I'm rethinking that in a way that maybe I should have all along. I'm realizing that there is no question that the Lord is the one who needs to be looked to and not my "superior" judgment [8\|] or the judgment of those whose intellectual prowess impresses me. What has that accomplished? What did eight years of Reagan do? No, I don't think he was perfect, but a darn sight better than what we have now. But what did it do? Did it help us avoid what we've come to? You sound like I did as a voter when I lived in Chicago. Either vote for my dummy (Blago) or their dummy (Topinka.) Both of them were pretty bad. That said, I think McCain should be pretty appealing to a traditional 1960's conservative. The only place where he strongly diverges from strict conservatism is his view on the environment. He's not a member of the Christian Right and he's not a neoconservative, but short of that, he does act like a good Republican. Depending on whether I feel he represents four more years of Bush or a different take on conservatism, this Democrat-leaning voter may even vote for him in November. Romney and Rudy would have never gotten that chance.

ljmac -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/4/2008 5:40:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc quote: ORIGINAL: bzirk That's what I feel today. Maybe it's a good thing for me to experience this. Make no mistake that it's been coming on for a long time. It's not something that I just woke up one morning and felt. But feel it I do. I'm disgusted with the offerings we have for president (and a lot of other offices as well), and I'm disgusted with what the process has become. I realize we're all imperfect and our representatives are imperfect as well. But today I don't feel that I really have a voice. By, of and for the people just rings hollow. What's really funny about me feeling this way is that for most of my life I've actually believed the system worked -- despite the flawed people involved. But now I'm rethinking that in a way that maybe I should have all along. I'm realizing that there is no question that the Lord is the one who needs to be looked to and not my "superior" judgment [8\|] or the judgment of those whose intellectual prowess impresses me. What has that accomplished? What did eight years of Reagan do? No, I don't think he was perfect, but a darn sight better than what we have now. But what did it do? Did it help us avoid what we've come to? You sound like I did as a voter when I lived in Chicago. Either vote for my dummy (Blago) or their dummy (Topinka.) Both of them were pretty bad. That said, I think McCain should be pretty appealing to a traditional 1960's conservative. The only place where he strongly diverges from strict conservatism is his view on the environment. He's not a member of the Christian Right and he's not a neoconservative, but short of that, he does act like a good Republican. Depending on whether I feel he represents four more years of Bush or a different take on conservatism, this Democrat-leaning voter may even vote for him in November. Romney and Rudy would have never gotten that chance. "The only place where he strongly diverges from strict conservatism is his view on the environment..." and campaign finance laws, and illegal immigration, and taxation... For years the media has been wailing for a middle of the road candidate. They've finally got one and don't want him.

JimboFletch -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/4/2008 5:47:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 The (American) "system" functions. It's not that great but it beats the alternatives that other countries have most of the time. Government in the US is a secular enterprise. So why do we Christians expect it to cater to our desires (which we don't agree on much of the time)? I prefer to think of it as a work in progress. I've read a lot of your posts and I have to say I agree more with this one than any other I've read. [sm=icon_smile_super.gif] I'd give you 5 stars if I could! [sm=thumbsup.gif]

saraha98 -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/4/2008 6:18:16 PM)
I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary

cow451 -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/5/2008 11:03:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: cow451 The (American) "system" functions. It's not that great but it beats the alternatives that other countries have most of the time. Government in the US is a secular enterprise. So why do we Christians expect it to cater to our desires (which we don't agree on much of the time)? I prefer to think of it as a work in progress. I've read a lot of your posts and I have to say I agree more with this one than any other I've read. [sm=icon_smile_super.gif] I'd give you 5 stars if I could! [sm=thumbsup.gif] I am humbled.

bzirk -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/5/2008 12:43:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: saraha98 I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary A great reminder, Sarah. Thank you.

PolarBear -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/5/2008 10:16:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bzirk quote: ORIGINAL: saraha98 I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary A great reminder, Sarah. Thank you. Right, and that's very much like what I have been saying. The Kingdom of God can keep growing in an Obama presidency, and as it does, social issues like those we care about will work themselves out.

JimboFletch -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/6/2008 8:52:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PolarBear quote: ORIGINAL: bzirk quote: ORIGINAL: saraha98 I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary A great reminder, Sarah. Thank you. Right, and that's very much like what I have been saying. The Kingdom of God can keep growing in an Obama presidency, and as it does, social issues like those we care about will work themselves out. In the Bible, God holds the rulers accountable for leading the nation, whether godly or evil. He eventually had them taken captive by pagan nations for allowing evil to be the norm. In the US, we the People ARE the rulers. We cannot abbrogate our position.

PrincessDonna -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/8/2008 9:32:25 PM)
I know the feeling, Bzirk. I have never felt like my vote here in NY has counted for anything, all because of liberal NYC. Part of me does wonder if maybe the church needs a wakeup call like Obama. This could be part of God's way of unifying the church into ONE BODY instead of the body fighting against itself and only staying weak and sick. I know many who have been praying and pushing toward unity in the church. Maybe this is God's way of answering that prayer, who knows?? No one wants persecution or a leader who is anti-God, but God knows better than we do what we need. If Obama gets put in office, it'll be because God put him there for a purpose. Bottom line...we have to remember where our hope is. And it isn't in the good old US of A. BTW, speaking as much to myself as to anyone else...the future with Obama as president scares the pants off of me.[:o] And I don't think McCain has a chance. I hope I'm wrong, but even if I'm not...God is still on the throne and no president of this country can dethrone him.[:)]

Dragonnie -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/8/2008 11:28:28 PM)
I used to think this was a free country, but the election has already been decided for us the people! And we the people haven't even gotten to vote yet! What kind of election is that? It's pre-packaged and pre-determined by higher powers creeping around in this country.

bzirk -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/9/2008 10:52:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: PolarBear quote: ORIGINAL: bzirk quote: ORIGINAL: saraha98 I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary A great reminder, Sarah. Thank you. Right, and that's very much like what I have been saying. The Kingdom of God can keep growing in an Obama presidency, and as it does, social issues like those we care about will work themselves out. In the Bible, God holds the rulers accountable for leading the nation, whether godly or evil. He eventually had them taken captive by pagan nations for allowing evil to be the norm. In the US, we the People ARE the rulers. We cannot abbrogate our position. We can allow our position to be abbrogated, and we have done just that with allowing the courts to stray into making law.

Dragonnie -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/11/2008 1:43:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: saraha98 I just want to say that my view on this election is God is still in control!! He knows who the man in the white house will be and whatever happens God is in control. I am reminded everyday that this world is not my home, I'm just a passin through. While I am here I just want God to use me in any capacity that He desires. Serving Him, Mary [:)]

JimboFletch -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/11/2008 9:05:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bzirk We can allow our position to be abbrogated, and we have done just that with allowing the courts to stray into making law. That's a concern I have whenever I consider voting a 3rd party. I know the candidate will lose and so I wonder if by making a statement I am helping swing the balance in the courts through the nominations sure to follow a Democratic President and Democratically controlled Congress. It could be an expensive statement that could cost millions more their chance at life and no end of strangeness for those of us alive. I once heard an ancient Chinese curse that goes: "May you live in interesting times." I didn't initially understand, but now I believe we are definitely living in interesting times.

rlj -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/11/2008 10:17:03 AM)
Bzirk you said what I have felt (and more importantly thought)for the last few years myself without sounding so bombastic, cynical or contentious like I would (and do). What bothers me most about our way of government is the fact that we have a population of over 300,000,000 and exactly 2 legitimate choices. Something is wrong here when country a tithe of our size can support 3 + parties. quote: For years the media has been wailing for a middle of the road candidate. They've finally got one and don't want him. Exactly.

JimboFletch -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/11/2008 11:18:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rlj Bzirk you said what I have felt (and more importantly thought)for the last few years myself without sounding so bombastic, cynical or contentious like I would (and do). What bothers me most about our way of government is the fact that we have a population of over 300,000,000 and exactly 2 legitimate choices. Something is wrong here when country a tithe of our size can support 3 + parties. quote: For years the media has been wailing for a middle of the road candidate. They've finally got one and don't want him. Exactly. We have a multitude of choices. In fact, every registered voter could write-in their own name if they want to. The question is on the effectiveness or the repercussions of hundreds of thousands voting for, say, Uncle Fred in a narrow election.

davemiller7 -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/11/2008 12:29:19 PM)
I cast my primary election vote for Alan Keyes. McCain had already locked up the necessary votes by the time we (NC) got to vote, so it was only symbolic. At least I have the honest ability to claim that I didn't initially vote for McCain. In November, I'm going to have to hold my nose and vote for McCain as the lesser of the two evils who have a chance of winning. If I did write in "Uncle Fred," I'd just be helping B. Hussein Obama win the White House. -Dave quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: rlj Bzirk you said what I have felt (and more importantly thought)for the last few years myself without sounding so bombastic, cynical or contentious like I would (and do). What bothers me most about our way of government is the fact that we have a population of over 300,000,000 and exactly 2 legitimate choices. Something is wrong here when country a tithe of our size can support 3 + parties. quote: For years the media has been wailing for a middle of the road candidate. They've finally got one and don't want him. Exactly. We have a multitude of choices. In fact, every registered voter could write-in their own name if they want to. The question is on the effectiveness or the repercussions of hundreds of thousands voting for, say, Uncle Fred in a narrow election.

rlj -> RE: Disenfranchisement (6/11/2008 1:17:19 PM)
quote: We have a multitude of choices. In fact, every registered voter could write-in their own name if they want to. The question is on the effectiveness or the repercussions of hundreds of thousands voting for, say, Uncle Fred in a narrow election. That is true. I voted for Peroutka last time and I am stuck between Obama and Baldwin this time. There is a part of me that wants to simply vote third party from now until I die but I do like to know what I am or am not voting for. I'm not an overly big fan of the Constitution Party but I do like it much better then the Republican Party 20 years post Reagan. I'm not a fan of the Liberterian Party either, but I already know I don't like the Republicans or Dems. Sometimes the old adage "better the devil that you know than the devil that you don't" takes over. The other thing is by voting for Baldwin instead of Obama whenever I get called a "Librul" I can say "Ha! I voted for the most conservative candidate 2 elections in a row!"

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